You should change your recharging habit.

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px2so

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I've read many post in the past and present about it's better to top off battery rather than drain it.

Well, if this article is true, you should change your recharging habbit.

http://www.citynotebookcentre.com.au/faq.htm

It's right in the bottom titled "Why doesn't my battery last very long ?"

I know this is a notebook, but it's still Lithium battery. They are saying even if u recharge 1%, it still counts as one charge cycle (out of 500 for iPod).

Either this means you should never charge it up to 100% so it can't be treated as a cycle, or leave it still it's drained and work your way up to conserve a cycle.
 

dmt1

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That goes against everything I've read about lithium batteries--not sure I trust that source. There was an excellent article over on the old forums that basically said you have 500 TOTAL discharges from the ipod--so if you recharge when the battery is half dead, it only counts as half a recharge. And I think that's pretty much the consensus...Gonna try and find some of those old links for you...
 

ZoidbergD

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Well, it's easy for them to say that, they don't really have any proof...

The website also looks a little sketchy...
 

px2so

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dmt1 said:
That goes against everything I've read about lithium batteries--not sure I trust that source. There was an excellent article over on the old forums that basically said you have 500 TOTAL discharges from the ipod--so if you recharge when the battery is half dead, it only counts as half a recharge. And I think that's pretty much the consensus...Gonna try and find some of those old links for you...
Thx, yea i believed the exact same thing as what you just said, but i'm reading more and more article that goes againt that idea.
 

px2so

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ZoidbergD said:
Well, it's easy for them to say that, they don't really have any proof...

The website also looks a little sketchy...
To tell you the truth, you or i don't have any proof of what we blieve.
 

ZoidbergD

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There is quite a lot of proof from the research pages of major battery manufacturers that warns against deep discharging, and that depite some models of batteries may be rated for 500 cycles, they last much longer.
 

BigIzz

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I remember that it said in my old cell phone manual that it is best for the battery to drain a great deal then to be charged rather then frequently topped off. I'm not sure if this even relates to the iPod but that was my impression about these things prior to iPod, where everyone suggests charging often is good for the battery.
 

px2so

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ZoidbergD said:
There is quite a lot of proof from the research pages of major battery manufacturers that warns against deep discharging, and that depite some models of batteries may be rated for 500 cycles, they last much longer.
Deep discharging has been known to be a bad thing for lith. 30% should be max drain. We are talking about issue of topping off so frequently.
 

ZoidbergD

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Either way, the research from the pages state that batteries were rated for deep discharges, not simply "topping off" which would not count as a cycle.
 

tonicboy

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Here is a snippet from an old post of mine where I talked about how you should not let your Lithium-Ion battery drain completely.

Originally posted by tonicboy
Exhibit #1:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Ion
- Note that they say "Never use the 'battery care' functions some cellular phones provide for nickel based batteries. (This will deep cycle the batteries.)". Deep cycling means completely discharging a battery and then recharging it again. Very bad thing for Li-Ion.

Exhibit #2:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
- If you have a short attention span, skip to the Simple Guidelines at the bottom where you are advised to "Avoid full discharges".

Exhibit #3:
http://www.nexergy.com/Reflib/Lithium_Ion_FAQ.html
- See question 6. Especially "...over discharge (voltage < 2.4V / cell) will cause irreversible chemical changes to the cell. These charges will reduce the retained capacity and cycle life of the battery"

- Also, in question 7 - "Perhaps the most dramatic increase in cycle life and retained capacity results from cycling at less than 100% depth of discharge" In English, this means - don't fully discharge!! Note that they say "the most dramatic increase in cycle life". This means that not only is not fully discharging your Li-Ion battery a good idea, it's the best idea to prolong your battery life.

Exhibit #4:
http://www.powerpulse.net/powerpuls...aa_040201b1.stm
- Of special interest is the footnote for Li-Ion batteries where the author states "Cycle life is based on depth of discharge. Shallow discharges provide more cycles than deep discharges
 

stasyna

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Why is battery such an issue. You'll get 40 mins less after 500 cycles, dont go cry about it.

If you battery is acting up, replace it.

my gosh. ive had mine for a year plus. i plug it in EVERYDAY, if not every 2nd or 3rd day. I still get 9 hrs+
 

ootter

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Many of you ppl are talking about different batteries than what iPod has. NiCad batteries and Li-Ion batteries are different from what iPod has (Li Polymer), and thus have different characteristics. Don't use advise on Li-Ion batteries, cause iPods (at least 3G) don't use them!
 

tonicboy

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ootter said:
Many of you ppl are talking about different batteries than what iPod has. NiCad batteries and Li-Ion batteries are different from what iPod has (Li Polymer), and thus have different characteristics. Don't use advise on Li-Ion batteries, cause iPods (at least 3G) don't use them!
"Li Polymer" is short for Lithium Ion Polymer. It is in fact a Lithium Ion battery with the exact same chemical characteristics. The only difference is that it replaces the traditional electrolyte with a gel-polymer, which allows for a smaller, more flexible size and shape without changing the chemistry at all.
 

reorx24

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man, looks like this batt issue is nowhere near settled. The conventional knowledge in this forum, as far as i can remember, was never to totally discharge the battery, its ok to charge the batt even if it still has a few bars lefts (in fact, this was the recommended way), as this would count as a half-charge cycle and therefore lengthen life, and the ipod batt has no "memory" to speak of.

Now that it appears that the lithium polymer batts of the ipod are in fact lithium ion, then the traditional lithim-ion caveats apply, such as those stated in the initial post's link.

I guess it just boils down to the question of whether or not one can safely charge even if the batt is not yet fully exhausted (which is what the lounge preaches, and i therefore practice), or if one should wait till the ipod is drained (but not fully) so as to take full advantage of one charging cycle.

quote from http://www.citynotebookcentre.com.au/faq.htm:

"The reason is that a charge cycle is used up whether you charge it from 5%, or 99%, to it's full capacity. Each time you put on the mains it will charge, even only 1% of charging means a charge cycle is gone"

This statement pretty much contradicts everything that ipodlounge states in its battery faq as well as in the forums

Therefore, the money question is, does partial charging even with 3 or 2 bars left count as a full charging cycle, or a partial one?

I hope someone can provide CLEAR and CONVINCING proof regarding this question, so that all these myths and gossips are quelled, and we FINALLY know how to properly charge the ipod.

Does the battery manufacturer have any details on this question? Any real battery experts out there?
 
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