RIAA Says Ripping CDs to Your iPod is NOT Fair Use

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bdb

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The DMCA was passed a few years ago to significantly reduce consumer rights in the US (thanks, Congress!), and it includes an ongoing review process to decide what is fair-use, and this process is again underway.

The RIAA recently submitted comments trying to justify most common activities as infringing (i.e. not fair use). This is very worrysome.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004409.php

But looking at the RIAA comments, what they propose is even worse than the EFF article:

1. They argue that backing up CDs is not fair use, asserting that they're cheap enough that you should buy a new one if your CD gets damaged: "Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices."

2. They argue that there is no fair use to rip CDs. "This is particularly the case in today’s market, where inexpensive legitimate digital copies of most types of works are readily available, and increasingly can be obtained through online download services."

A number of other nasty things are in there, like eliminating copy for educational purposes, justifying rootkits & security compromises, and eliminating any requirement for openness to permit multi-platform computer use.

And here I was, thinking CDs and online music was over-priced, or at least not cheap enough to use an original CD in a car...turns out the RIAA thinks they're so cheap that you can just go buy a new copy when your original is damaged, or you want to use it on another device! Man, these guys are scary.
 
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somegods

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Wow, that floored me. With CD prices creeping up around $18 (though there are some retailers who take a hit on that hoping people will buy more, selling them at around $12-$14 a pop) - they think it's no big deal to have to spend an additional $10-$12 for the ability to play the music on your iPod? This is an industry thats also trying to come down on public libraries...appearently we should all be wealthy enough to by 2-3 copies of every CD we enjoy.

Thankfully our elected officials work for us, not rich lobbying groups! Right...?
 
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Unfortunately, this is not surprising, and has been the tact that both the RIAA and MPAA have been taking for years. Remember that these are the same basic group of individuals who compared the VCR to the Boston Strangler. :rolleyes:

The problem is that the whole issue of copyright and content is a bit of a quagmire right now... The RIAA and MPAA tend to see intellectual property as being intrinsically connected to physical property, and make the argument that you are no more entitled to a backup copy of your CD/DVD than you are to a backup copy of your lawnmower, and that you should be purchasing your content in each and every form you wish to use it in.

This type of thinking is what would lead to pay-per-use TV and pay-per-use radio if left unchecked.

On the other hand, there are those who would argue that you are paying for a license to use the content of the medium, and not so much the medium itself. If you wish to use that content in a different place or format, there should be no restrictions on that.

At this point, the copyright law is far more solidly on the side of the intellectual property being intangible content, rather than physical medium, but of course this is subject to change at the whim of elected officials.

Ironically, many of the copyright acts in different countries have specific exemptions for creating backups of your computer software, yet no such provision exists for other recorded works. The implications of this could be argued either way, but it's fair to assume that up until this time elected officials and government bodies have been content with the understanding that "fair use" provisions would generally apply in these cases.
 

lebkin

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I don't understand these kinds of reactions by the RIAA and the MPAA. Do they not understand that this only alienates their customers more? Instead of trying to work with the ever-evolving methods of listening to music, they are constantly attempting to hold back change. It only ####es people off and leads to more stealing and copying, not less.

And it is simply laughable that one would buy more than one copy of a CD in order to play in different formats. Especially with the rather poor pricing of CDs in most stores. Not only are the prices creeping up, they are not decreasing with time. A year old DVD is significantly less than a brand new one. A several year old DVD costs only a few bucks. Yet somehow a ten year old CD costs the exact same as a brand-new one. Simply stupid.
 

Skrat

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The reason the RIAA is able to do this is because we, as consumers, are pathetic. As much as we protest and scream and yell about the unfairness of it all, we will still go out and buy our cds and dvds and they know that. We will never be able to organise a boycott of thier cds and dvds because so they feel free to keep doing what they do.

Just wait till Windows Vista arrives. Then our lives will really start being controlled. lol
 

mrdantownsend

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I really hope the Russian govvernment doesn't crack down on music infringement there, because there's no way i'm paying $1 a song off iTunes.

I'll have to just resort to Limewire again if that's what it comes down to.
 

somegods

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Skrat said:
The reason the RIAA is able to do this is because we, as consumers, are pathetic. As much as we protest and scream and yell about the unfairness of it all, we will still go out and buy our cds and dvds and they know that. We will never be able to organise a boycott of thier cds and dvds because so they feel free to keep doing what they do.
This is true, religious groups seem to be the only folks capable of an effective consumer boycott. But it's really hard to get the public or even those of us who are morally outraged to abstain from giving them more and more money for the goods we want. Thats why we really have to do our best to intimidate not the industries, but the politicians giving them the green light.

Politicians can to be corrupt as all h---, but citizens can still scare them into doing the right thing every now and then. This is where the USA's low voter turnout can be to our advantage - only the people with a direct stake in something relevent really turn out to the polls in strong numbers, so when some of those people cause a stink ... they can become an actual threat, and get something done.

Find out who is sitting on the committees hearing these arguements. Start a campaign in their hometowns/states that their offices can't ignore. You just might get a few of these officials to speak up and vote some things down, because they can't even take bribes if they're voted out of office and they know it.
 
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ElPapa

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Y'know I don't know how the RIAA think they can enforce this... I mean.. they can't even enforce the current laws that they push for..

Oh well.. they can have my ripper and burner when the pry them from my cold dead PC...
 

Annihil8or

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I'm sorry Mr. RIAA exec I don't make 5 million per year, a 15 dollar CD isn't cheap enough to buy a new one if it gets scratched.

good points jhollington. The RIAA really has gotten out of control on what they deem intellectual property and their management of such. Fortunately for the consumer plenty of US legislation such as the Digital Millenium Copyright Act and even earlier precedents have shown that back up copies of copyrighted property is perfectly legal. The RIAA can go ahead and deem things they consider to not be fair-use all they want, and after they are laughed out of court for such a case they can go shove those documents right up their ___. And sorry Mr. RIAA exec, legal precedent was allready established in the Grokster case :(
 
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Emultion_Rawks

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RIAA say a lot of things... I don't think any statement, comment, or anything they say can surprise me anymore.

I'd have a lot to say to the guys behind all this. It's almost like they want Music sales to go down...
 

toothpaste

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Skrat said:
The reason the RIAA is able to do this is because we, as consumers, are pathetic. As much as we protest and scream and yell about the unfairness of it all, we will still go out and buy our cds and dvds and they know that. We will never be able to organise a boycott of thier cds and dvds because so they feel free to keep doing what they do.

Just wait till Windows Vista arrives. Then our lives will really start being controlled. lol
1. you buy cds, i don't ;)
2. you buy dvds, i don't. ever hear of netflix? ;)

Vista? OS X and linux user here :)D :D ). I don't let anyone control me or tell me what to do with things I have paid for, future purchases aside, I choose not some flithy rich exec that wants more. Brake the cycle and don't support them yourself.
 

antiditz

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Things like this make me so mad, in a way that's hard to convey in writing. These RIAA people are idiots. It's like nothing you do can please them. Or anything you do displeases them. "Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices?" That's preposterous! I'd agree with E_R and say it's as if they want sales to decline, but I know that just would never happen. The sad part is, in all their absurdity, these damn RIAA twits seem to always come out on top.
 

MellowTone41

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I'm seeing two purposes behind this approach. I really think that they're trying to bend fair use laws so that they can lobby for restrictions on CD ripping hardware and software. Not only does this prevent us from copying cds so that we have to by new copies once ours become damaged but it also prevents people from ripping and sharing music. I still don't think this approach will work. I think any court will find that we're paying for the intellectual property, not the physical property, which should reinforce our rights to copy and rip music for personal use.
 

bdb

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Annihil8or said:
Fortunately for the consumer plenty of US legislation such as the Digital Millenium Copyright Act and even earlier precedents have shown that back up copies of copyrighted property is perfectly legal.
Wow, bad example. The DMCA is what this is all about - its purpose was not to give consumers rights, but to take them away. Making backup copies is absolutely illegal (per anti-circumvention clauses) if they require you to bypass copy protection. This is why a United States District Court ruled that consumers do not have the right to make backup copies of the DVD discs they purchase. The same law applies to copy-protected CDs.

The DMCA also effectively takes the copyright discussion back to the table on a recurring basis (hence this current review, to which the RIAA is responding).
 

bdb

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Hehe, in other news...the department of homeland security warned that there might be legislation of companies use rootkits for things like copy-protection.

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,108793,00.html

At least one thing is wrong with that article, Sony was not "forced" to recall their rootkit CDs. They did that on their own, and offered replacements as well as digital copies (in unfettered MP3 format, so I understand) to people with those CDs, which was really a reasonable and decent thing to do.
 

TheJosher

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This is true, religious groups seem to be the only folks capable of an effective consumer boycott. But it's really hard to get the public or even those of us who are morally outraged to abstain from giving them more and more money for the goods we want.
You're right. And that gives me an idea.. what happens when the RIAA starts picking on them? If the RIAA is serious about the ripping CD thing, isn't it just a matter of time before someone is taken to court for ripping their Michael W. Smith CD to their iPod? It would be awesome to get some of the large religous groups against the RIAA/music industry. I'm sure they could run an effective boycott.

Josh
 

turkeysix

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Man, the RIAA really slays me.

Like someone else said, I cannot even begin to convey my disgust for these childish ####ants through words. Simply pathetic.

I support the artists I enjoy through appreciation, promotion, merchandise sales, and by simply introducing them to potential fans.

I don't listen to very well-known bands. Their CD's are rather difficult to come by. (As in, you're not going to go to your local Best Buy and be able to just purchase the CD). If it wasn't for P2P software or general file-sharing, I can damn well guarantee you that these bands would be nowhere.


It's all about money. They're nothing but arrogant, greedy, technologically-oblivious twats.
 

bdb

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If you listen to bands that aren't well-known, they may not be on RIAA labels. The RIAA is a consortium (though some may call it a 'cartel') of labels. All the big labels are there:

http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp

Pretty much any record label that is considered "indepedent" won't be on that list. No Merge, No subpop, no Matador, no Beggars Group. So their hands are clean of all this.

Personally I check the label before I even listen to a new CD (and I always listen to them before I buy them). I don't even bother listening if its an RIAA label, because I might like it and then want to buy it. You can check the RIAA status of a CD here:

http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/
 
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