Photo Storage on the iPod -- The Gory Details

[Jesse Hollington]

My camera takes approx. 300KB pictures. How much space do you think each picture will take up on the iPod (all 4 re-sizes included, of course). Im trying to get a rough idea on how much space all 950 megs of photos will take up if I choose NOT to include full resolution copies.

If you're not storing full-resolution copies, then each picture, regardless of original resolution, will take up approximately 776kb on the iPod (I think I either mentioned this above, or in my iPod 101 article - see my sig).

Basically, the pictures are stored as 16-bit bitmaps, in four resolutions, so the amount of storage required for each photo is mathematically consistent.

So basically, take the number of individual photo files that you have, and multiply that by 776kb and you should have a reasonable approximately (and add a few more kb for database record overhead).

 

[MrZebra77]

Unfortunately, not at this time.

The image database only exists on the iPod photo itself. In iTunes, the artwork is only stored within the MP3/AAC file. It transfers it to the image database when you sync the song to your iPod (assuming that you have the "Display Album Artwork" option turned on).

So this does mean that you're technically wasting some space on the iPod by storing the album artwork, and of course with 700x700 images, that's probably a larger amount than strictly necessary, since the iPod photo itself only displays them at 140x140 and 50x50, but unfortunately the full image size is what gets stored in the MP3/AAC file.

You could resize the folder.jpg files before importing them into iTunes, but you'll have to decide whether that's worth the trouble or not... To do the math, consider the size of each existing folder.jpg file multiplied by each MP3 file in that respective folder (since the artwork has to be stored in each MP3 file individually).

Ok, I know about the image DB in the iPod.. Did some calculations:

Resizing covers with Photoshop to 140x140 and saving them optimized for size (Save for Web option) gives a file around 6-8k. Multiply that by an average of 12 songs per album, you get something below 100k so that's reasonable.

Now, the iPod will have in addition to that, 2 "BMPs" of 140x140 and 56x56 so 39200 Bytes + 6272 Bytes so around 45k.

Now does it create an entry in that DB for each song or does it reuse the same copy for all MP3s.

If it reuses them, with an average of 12 tracks, that would mean about 150k per album of overhead. At 50 Megs per album average, that's 0.3% overhead. So if you fill up 30 GB, you endup with 90 Megs of covers.

If it doesn't reuse it, then you have to count 45k + 6-8k per track, so for a 12 Track album, it will take up about 650k per album, so using the same 50 Megs per album average that gets to 1.3% overhead or 390 Megs of cover.

Considering the size of my collection and how much space there will be to spare on the HDD, I'll be ok with that.

 

[Jesse Hollington]

No, each track gets its own entry in the image DB, so you're actually looking at 45kb per track, plus the overhead of the image within your MP3/AAC file.

Your math is essentially correct, and I tend to agree that as a percentage of the overall music library, the additional space requirement is really quite minimal.

 

[xtermus-san]

Hello!
Just got my iPod photo 30gb yesterday.
I was really upset by having a 800mb photo album transform into 3gb, for a feature i'm not planning on using anyways (the TV output).
I tried deleting the F1019 files, and indeed it worked! No glitches or gray screens when browsing the photo library. Haven't tried synching after that, so I don't know if it will stay small or not.

Obviously this is not a solution to the problem, but it's better than nothing.

Why can't apple allow me to choose if I want TV support or not? I don't want even the bloated size on the hard drive and especially not on the iPod itself.

 

[shootingsurgeon]

canon 20D and apple cameraconnector

You are the big expert. I read your threads with interest. I have a problem. I cannot store photo's from my 20 d in the ipod photo 30 gb. The applecamera connector does not work with me if I import I see only a blank page. PTP or normal transfer gives no difference . Do you know a solution ?

 

[siisgood00]

Hello!
Just got my iPod photo 30gb yesterday.
I was really upset by having a 800mb photo album transform into 3gb, for a feature i'm not planning on using anyways (the TV output).
I tried deleting the F1019 files, and indeed it worked! No glitches or gray screens when browsing the photo library. Haven't tried synching after that, so I don't know if it will stay small or not.

Obviously this is not a solution to the problem, but it's better than nothing.

Why can't apple allow me to choose if I want TV support or not? I don't want even the bloated size on the hard drive and especially not on the iPod itself.

Any update on this? It is safe to delete this folder if you dont use the iPod to display images on the TV? Will iTunes simply re-create this folder each time you sync?

 

[KeithW]

Incidently, I decipherd the file format for the largest .ithmb files. I discuss it in a thread in the hacks&mods section titles "Hacking .ithmb file format". My intention was to write a Mac application similar to XPlay's Photo Browser program. I have had no success deciphering the file formats for the other .ithmb files yet though, which store smaller versions of the images. I have the 720x480 images deciphered so far.

I am curious if there is any demand at all for this, since it only gives you access to relatively small images and you can store full res images on the ipod anyway. Does anyone like or other use XPlay's program, or do any Mac user's wish theh could do it?

 

[scottced]

Keith,

As someone who recently lost the photo library on my computer, I'd be very interested in this, even if it is in the larger formats. 5 years of pictures exist on my iPod right now and I need to find a way to salvage them to my computer or my wife is going to kill me.

 

[PaulF]

Photo iPods Are Amazing... i dont care what people think, its the latest and greatest from apple right now... just cant wait for the 5G

 

[War Machine]

yes. i agree. i havn't gotten a chance to put pics on my ipod yet, but i mite not because i don't want all the diferent sized images taking up harddrive space

 

[pInK]

Keith,

As someone who recently lost the photo library on my computer, I'd be very interested in this, even if it is in the larger formats. 5 years of pictures exist on my iPod right now and I need to find a way to salvage them to my computer or my wife is going to kill me.

Me too. I used my iPod as mobile photo storage on a trip and kept moving photos from my SD card onto it with the camera connector, then taking more with the camera until there were 11 "rolls" showing in the iPod browser.

I am so afraid that one false move in iTunes will result in syncing my computer to the iPod in such a way that the photos are deleted forever without being saved to my PC hard drive (like it wipes songs clean to match those already existing on the PC).

 

[Jesse Hollington]

Actually the risk of this is very low, as photos imported with the camera connector are stored in a completely separate directory from those used by iTunes.

Unless you were actually to run the iPod Updater and "Restore" your iPod (thereby erasing everything on it), reconnecting your iPod to iTunes won't be a problem.

Specifically, photos imported with the camera connector are stored in the \DCIM directory, and must be retrieved through "Disk Mode" (in the same way that you would transfer photos from your memory card directly to your computer). On the other hand, photos placed on the iPod by iTunes are stored in the \Photos directory.

 

[awheewall]

Re: Photo Storage on the iPod photo -- The Gory Details

Firstly, for those who may not realize it, the iPod photo is not capable of resizing images on the fly. All of this work is done by iTunes when it transfers the photos onto the iPod photo -- be it normal pictures or album artwork, the principle works the same -- iTunes does the resizing, and the iPod photo just displays whatever it has in it's photo database.

Actually the iPod is very capable of resizing pictures, as I've just uploaded a roll of photos from my digital camera via the iPod Camera Link and I can now view them just like all the other photos that iTunes put on there. All without going near my computer.

 

[Jesse Hollington]

Well, admittedly that statement probably should be updated from when it was originally written. However, the ability to resize and view the photos imported from the camera connector was only introduced in the version 1.1 firmware that came out last March (when the camera connector was released).

This was added by Apple since there were many concerns raised with the initial release of the iPod photo that pictures imported from the Belkin camera connectors were not viewable on the iPod.

Even with the v1.1+ firmware, the iPod's resizing capabilities are still limited due to the lack of processing power on the unit itself. When importing digital pictures, they are resized for viewing on the iPod, but a TV-resolution image is not created. I suspect this is because the time required to create an additional resized photo and insert it into the database would add an unacceptable additional delay to the photo import process (which many have already complained is slow enough as it is).

Keep in mind that this conversion process is still done at import time, so it is still at least partially correct to suggest that the iPod does not resize pictures on the fly during viewing. This is an important distinction, as people need to understand that you can't just plug the iPod into any computer and dump a bunch of photos on it for later viewing.... They have to be converted and resized either by iTunes (for full viewing in all resolutions), or by the photo import process (for viewing on the screen).

The specifics on the photo import capabilities in the v1.1 firmware have been discussed in other threads (such as here and here).

 

[pInK]

Actually the risk of this is very low, as photos imported with the camera connector are stored in a completely separate directory from those used by iTunes.

Unless you were actually to run the iPod Updater and "Restore" your iPod (thereby erasing everything on it), reconnecting your iPod to iTunes won't be a problem.

Specifically, photos imported with the camera connector are stored in the \DCIM directory, and must be retrieved through "Disk Mode" (in the same way that you would transfer photos from your memory card directly to your computer). On the other hand, photos placed on the iPod by iTunes are stored in the \Photos directory.

I couldn't get iTunes to show me any directories in Disk Mode but downloaded the latest Anapod Explorer and found the .jpgs right where you said - thanks! I managed to copy the directories to my hard drive and am going to check through later to see if all the pix are there; it looks like they are. I am SO happy about that. Thanks for your advice!

 

[awheewall]

Well, admittedly that statement probably should be updated from when it was originally written. However, the ability to resize and view the photos imported from the camera connector was only introduced in the version 1.1 firmware that came out last March (when the camera connector was released).

When importing digital pictures, they are resized for viewing on the iPod, but a TV-resolution image is not created. I suspect this is because the time required to create an additional resized photo and insert it into the database would add an unacceptable additional delay to the photo import process (which many have already complained is slow enough as it is).

Yes I realised that it only did it for the iPod Screen only soon after posting that. It's a pity really, as the TV size is also a small picture compared with a 5-8Mbit original. If the time taken was an issue I'd at least have liked an option for the iPod to do this, with perhaps a warning about the time taken. The whole point of using the iPod to take photos from a digital camera means that you can take thousands of photos without having to "return to base". Surely it's a few lines of code to add the TV resizing also. Come on Apple, you don't normally do things by half measures, get this important functionality right. We want a TV resize too.

 

[Jesse Hollington]

Well, I think that Apple has a habit of not including features in their products unless those features are going to work well enough that people won't be frustrated by them. Apple's product line has many examples of this type of approach.

People already complain about the slow transfer speed of photos even with the current firmware. While I agree that it would be nice to have the option, I think that you would have a lot of users turning it on and then complaining as to why Apple would even put it in, as it would likely not only be slower, but also consume more battery power, thereby somewhat defeating the purpose.

However, I'm sure that the ability to view photos at all was a result of feedback to Apple on this issue, as just about every review of the iPod photo (my own included) expressed concern at this previous omission.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to Send Feedback to Apple indicating that this is something you would like to see added.

 

[awheewall]

Thanks for the Apple link, I was wondering if there was any official way to give feedback/feature requests. I just wonder if they only respond to lots of requests for the same thing, or actually assess the value of even a single suggestion.

Anyway, thanks.

 

[Jesse Hollington]

First Post Updated for 5G iPod.

The main differences are the image thumbnail database sizes. While the TV database remains the same for obvious reasons (TV output resolution hasn't changed), most of the other databases have been changed to accomodate the larger screen.

Album artwork is now 200x200 for the full-size image, and 100x100 for the "Now Playing" thumbnail.

Full-size photo display is 320x240 (ie, the full-screen resolution on the 5G iPod), and the thumbnails for the photo browser appear to have been increased to 50x41.

Each piece of album art will take up 100,000 bytes on the 5G iPod (in addition to the space required for the album artwork image inside the AAC/MP3 track itself).

Each photo will take up 851kb (871,780 bytes), in addition to the storage for any full-resolution images (if "Store Full-Resolution Photos" is enabled).

 

[AMRivlin]

Any changes to any of this in iTunes 6 or the 5 G... I would like to use the iPod to store my photos, and remove them completely from my 30gb ibook, so I will have some storage space there, so I will want to Retain orginals? Too bad it will change my directories. I have most my photos sorted by trip or event... now it will sort them by date?