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Surf Monkey

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loramarthalas said:
The iPhone is an iPod more fully functioned than any iPod currently available incorporated into a UMPC that happens to have phone capabilities. Why do you think that a phone can't be a media player? Why does that idea threaten you so much?

'iPhone is phone plain and simple', ahhh no. The phone on my touchphone on my wall at home is a phone plain and simple. Your Nokia or whatever you use is phone plain and simple. The iPhone is a multimedia device. I has an OS, for god's sake. It has MAC OS. That is the very definition of a multimedia device.

I'm not in the least bit "threatened." I just think it's odd that you can't wrap your mind around the fact that iPhone is a phone first and an iPod second. It's no more a dedicated media device than any other smart phone on the market. It just has a fancier interface.
 

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jhollington said:
However, it's also not inaccurate to suggest that the iPhone is still a phone first, and a media player second, no matter how well-designed and advanced the iPod side may be. Very few people other than obsessive gadget freaks are going to buy the device solely for its iPod functions unless they also want a phone with the iPhone's particular feature-set, style, and design.

Exactly. And I think you made this point before; if it were an iPod with a phone build it Apple would have called it iPod with Phone, not iPhone.
 

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And this brings me back to my original point;

What makes an iPod?

I know what you're going to say. A clickwheel, a large storage capacity, and a buggy, stone age interface right?

If that's an iPod, then your welcome to it. Me, I'd rather the widescreen glory of the iPhone.

Sony makes those Walkman phones. Are they really a Walkman? Not at all. It's just a name, like 'iPod'. Whatever is attached to that name for you is an iPod. The way I see it, the iPhone is the evolution of the iPod. And I'm sure Steve Jobs would agree with me, and when he releases the 6g iPods that look almost exactly like iPhones, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
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loramarthalas said:
What makes an iPod?
Realistically, the fact that it's primarily a media player.

People don't buy a RAZR and call it an "MP3 player" even though it has an MP3 player built in.

I know what you're going to say. A clickwheel, a large storage capacity, and a buggy, stone age interface right?
Well, that's what others may say, but I would disagree. The issue here (as I've said above), is one about product positioning and marketing.

Let's try to look at this another way.... The iPhone is not an iPod. It's a phone with an iPod built-in, but it's not primarily an iPod. This seems to be where we're having a semantic difference of opinion.

The way I see it, the iPhone is the evolution of the iPod. And I'm sure Steve Jobs would agree with me, and when he releases the 6g iPods that look almost exactly like iPhones, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Well, to be fair, the iPhone represents or is an indication of the evolution of the iPod. I fully agree that the design and iPod features of the iPhone are an indication of where the iPod is going.

However, to suggest that the iPhone is, in and of itself, the evolution of the iPod is not reasonable, since the iPod is not going to be evolving into a phone any time soon.
 

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jhollington said:
However, to suggest that the iPhone is, in and of itself, the evolution of the iPod is not reasonable, since the iPod is not going to be evolving into a phone any time soon.

Sure, I agree with that.

And as I have said, it's the design elements that will make it into the 6g iPod. But I really think that it's you guys who are splitting hairs by saying the iPhone is not a mulitmedia player but merely a phone because it doesn't have the iPod brand name attached to it.

You're starting with the assumption Apple built the iPhone as a phone primarily.

I'm saying that because of the wide screen, Cover Flow, the interface, it wasn't built primarily as a phone but equally as a phone, a movie player, a music player.

I mean, it has no physical keypad. How is that primarily a phone? It is quite clearly intended to function as multimedia device. That is inherent in its design. It's the phone functions that have been built in, not the multimedia functions.

Look at any Treo, any Nokia, any Motorola. They are not dedicated media devices. They are phones first and media players second. This is exactly why people are so excited about the iPhone, because it is the first device to put media first, not second.

When you have a device that plays movies and audio and has internet access and MAC OS, surely we need to come up with a better than label than just plain "phone"?
 
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Well, as some others have said above, there are those who are bothered by the insistence of some that the iPhone will in fact replace the iPod, and therefore tend to overreact when anybody makes a statement that even hints at that possibility.

Yes, the iPhone is a fully capable media player, with the only real significant constraint being a lack of capacity. I'm certainly not debating that point. However, it is not being marketed as a media player, and other than the few early adopters who have got to get their hands on the coolest new device right away, most people will not be buying it primarily for its iPod functions, but will instead wait and see what the 6G has to offer.

In that sense of the word, it's not an iPod.
 

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And again, it's very likely that Apple will make sure that the next iPod generation will be unique enough to be easily distinguishable from iPhone. Apple isn't going to let iPod sales cannibalize iPhone sales and vice versa. iPod is their flagship product, even in light of the iPhone launch. Apple would be insane to merge the two lines without at least making sure that iPhone is a success. Even then, it's more plausible that Apple will want customers to buy both an iPhone and an iPod, just as they're happy to sell people both a Nano and a full sized iPod. I get what loramarthalas is saying and I agree with a lot of it but I think he's going way too far when he suggests that the iPhone is the next iPod. It isn't. It's the first Apple phone. And I do believe that Apple designed it as a phone first, not a media player.
 
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While I agree that Apple won't make the 6G a clone of the iPhone, to play devil's advocate, I think even if they did, there's very little risk of one device cannibalizing the sales of the other. The two devices appeal to very different target audiences, and the iPhone itself has a hefty price tag and complicated purchase requirements.

I mean, let's think about it... If both the iPhone and an iPhone-esque 100GB+ 6G iPod were available today, the only real business Apple risks losing are those who are going to actually buy the iPhone only because they have to have it now and don't want to wait for the 6G.

Otherwise, once the market settles down and all of the drooling fanboys have their iPhones, the only remaining people who will actually be buying the iPhone are those who actually want it for the phone features. In this case, a 6G iPod in any design won't necessarily hold a lot of appeal, unless they also want a device with more capacity, in which case it doesn't matter how similar the 6G iPod is to the iPhone in interface and overall design, they'll either buy both devices, or forego the iPhone in favour of a higher-capacity 6G device.

Given the choice between an 8GB iPhone and a 100GB+ 6G iPod, even if they looked and worked exactly the same (for the iPod features, that is) or completely different, most people's decisions will be fairly clear.

IMHO, the only tactic being employed right now by Apple is to artificially inflate the sales figures for the iPhone by making it the device with the cool and sexy new interface, thereby being able to demonstrate a higher degree of popularity for their new phone concept than they otherwise would have garnered had a dedicated non-phone device been available as another option. Once that initial rush is over, they're less likely to care which device people buy.

(just as a side-note, when I say "iPhone-esque device," I'm not implying a 6G iPod with iPhone-specific features like a web browser, merely a device with the same interface and features as the iPod side of the iPhone -- essentially an iPhone without the Internet Communicator and Phone capabilities).
 
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