General genre classification question?

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dragfree

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Floyd was progressive in that they advanced music. I would say they were avant-garde for their time. But in any case, that's not what progressive rock is. Progressive rock can be defined by two bands, Rush and Dream Theater.

Huh? Pink Floyd was an outstanding example of a progressive rock band, exemplified by their huge success in ripping off Terry Riley's "A Rainbow in Curved Air" and applying it to a rock composition. As far as "defining progressive rock" is concerned, how about referring to the bands for whom the descriptor was coined, such as Soft Machine, Procol Harum, and the Move?

I would dare to say that no other music is as concerned with music theory as is prog rock.

Huh? Have you never heard of classical music or jazz?
 

nigeltufnel3

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SoundChaser:
Yes, I agree, however I feel as if the instruments are less important to prog rock than the music (i.e. theory).

dragfree:
Yes, belive it or not, I have heard of both classical and jazz.;) I still maintain that prog rock is the most concerned with theory. In many ways, it seems that the goal of prog rock is to both explore and push the limits of theory. While both classical and jazz are fairly technical in nature, I don't see being technical as a main "goal" of either of these.

And I just used a couple examples of more popular, quintesential prog rock bands. Yes, we could have used your bands in the definition, but I believe more popular bands would be more helpful to the original poster.

And who says prog rock was coined for Soft Machine???? If there was any one band who were the original prog rockers it was King Crimson.


Finally, to both of you and everyone else listening; I think we all have our different interpretations of prog rock and I think mine is leaning a little bit towards math rock or avant-garde prog rock. To each his own
:D
 

Teqnilogik

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I like to keep it simple. Rock for Metal, Progressive, Alternative, etc. Reason is its easier to find music that way and because some bands switch genres with different releases. For example, in the 1980's some would categorize Bon Jovi as a hair METAL band but now they are a modern/pop rock band. So that would mean I would have to label their early stuff as Metal and their new stuff as Rock. So when I was browsing one genre, all their music would not appear. To categorize them as Rock would cover both Metal and Rock so all their music would appear and browsing would become simpler. There are SOOOO many sub-genres that if you were to be specific with everything you'd have so many genres that you wouldn't know what to do with. You can be specific if you want but at least try to be general somewhat or you will be spending way too much time deciding what sub-genre an artist belongs in and creating more hassle for yourself when it comes time to browse through your music.
 

philnotfil

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nigeltufnel3 said:
Yes, belive it or not, I have heard of both classical and jazz.;) I still maintain that prog rock is the most concerned with theory. In many ways, it seems that the goal of prog rock is to both explore and push the limits of theory. While both classical and jazz are fairly technical in nature, I don't see being technical as a main "goal" of either of these.
So that's why my music theory and form and analysis classes spent so much time on prog rock :)
 

nicksmith

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I classify my music good, and bad. As long as it sounds good, it doesnt need to be labeled. Theres so many genre-crossing artists and new genres popping up its not even worth the time to keep track.
 

Annihil8or

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As the genres go I use about 13 basic genres to cover all of my music, rock, rap, R&B, Pop, Classical, etc, etc. I like to browse on my iPod using genre first, and if my music is broken down into tons of sub-genres it would be quite cumbersome (hmm, is this band alt-indie-rock, or indie-garage-rock?)

on the progressive rock - I agree with nigel on the thought that Prog-rock typically means envelope-pushing music. complicated time signatures, intricate instrumentation in general, etc. However if this could be a simple def of progressive then a band such as soilwork could be described as proressive due to their guitar work and composition... However they are def Metal.

The weird thing about this entire genre classification system is that people's genres are based on their own tastes and musical breadth. When i was younger i would characterize some bands as "metal" which i now consider plain rock, or alt-rock after pushing into heavier bands such as In Flames and Meshuggah. One person might consider Bon Jovi 'classic rock' when another might push classic onto music such as Floyd, Bob Segar, or Zeppelin. genre labeling is heavily affected by point of view, thoughts?
 

TheJosher

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Here's what I do:

Look up the album on All Music Guide.. use the genre they list as the genre, then add each of the styles to the comments feild. So if I need to, I can create a smart playlist that has "Comments contain... hard rock" and get all the sub genres/styles that way.


Josh
 

bdb

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Annihil8or said:
As the genres go I use about 13 basic genres to cover all of my music, rock, rap, R&B, Pop, Classical, etc, etc. I like to browse on my iPod using genre first, and if my music is broken down into tons of sub-genres it would be quite cumbersome (hmm, is this band alt-indie-rock, or indie-garage-rock?)
I find that works well too. I have so many artists and albums that those menus are hopeless. Playlists aren't very good for grouping artists/albums, because its one huge list of song titles. With a limited number of genres I can go to an artist (and their albums) much more easily.
 

Corky

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On Genres...

I agree with the prevailing sentiment; you can become a slave to Itunes if you get bogged down into various genres. That said, look to the genres and sub-genres in download.com. Fairly detailed in the breakdown. See, for example, the sub-genres under "alternative".
 

catpodder

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I don't portend to be a musicologist or anything...I have the hardest time with rock:
Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry - rock & roll?
Beatles - classic pop?
Journey, Cheap Trick, etc. - ???
Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix - Hard rock?

I have Lynyrd Skynyrd as Southern rock.

What about John Hiatt or John Prine?
 

St Bonney

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Here's a basic rundown of my complicated Genres:

Alt. Rock: The Bravery, Jet
Blues Rock: ZZ Top
Classic Rock: Aerosmith, Zeppelin, GNR, Def Leppard
Metal: Korn, SOAD (tech. Nu-Metal)
Pop-Punk: All American Rejects
Punk Rock: Green Day (although some albums could be considered pop-punk)
Prog. Rock: Nirvana
Regular Rock: AC/DC, U2, Pearl Jam
Rock-Pop: Bryan Adams, Phill Collins
Indie: Arctic Monkeys

Yeah, rock's subgenres give EVERYONE grief...
 

misper666

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dance music ~ electronic music is the worst genre to classify. notice how i refer to those as one! mainly because most dance music uses electric equipment, so elctronic music that's not strictly for dancing, either 'cos it's too ambient or too mentally difficult gets labelled as dance music. when really, it all ranges from cheesy pop for skool kids, up to the most intelligent and/or difficult chin stroking techno boffin geek music. iTunes is killing me with these: "electronica/dance" & "electronica & dance". i have two genres meaning the SAME bl**ding thing. AAAAARRGGHHHHH
 

savethehumans45

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well man, what about ska? just flat out ska? Ska IS after all the music of jamaica (and i dont mean jamaica queens)(if anyone gets that on this forum, PM me) Ska is the perfect combination of flowing rythmic patterns and offsetting to the up beat. Ska is the perfect music to dance to, and most people have already enjoyed it. Ranging from Obla di Obla da of the beatles to Daddys little girl by against all authority, ska has found a permanent home in the hearts of many. Ska itself is broken down into the main subcatagories, known to the rude boys and girls as waves. First wave or trad ska bands such as the skatalites are still goin strong. 2 tone(2nd wave bands) such as the specials were once making the tops of the charts in the UK. And third wave bands such as The mighty mighty bosstones(who arguably started the 3rd wave) mustard plug and streetlight manifesto have made some of the most recognizable tunes and albums in the entire scene.

So please, when classifying music into genres, dont forget about good ol' ska.
http://www.skasummit.com/news.php

I noticed in the second or third post something in the regards of skacore. if youre interested, check out "skacore the devil and more" from the mighty mighty bosstones as well as against all authority.
 

misper666

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bloody hell yeah! ska is diverse! who would've thought some of the punk scene would ditch the aggressive style & move into a more enjoyable past-time!

btw, great reminder!
 

Questhate

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I don't even want to get into this whole debate on drawing lines in differentiating between subgenres, as its utterly ridiculous.

But, I wanted to point out that many of you misinterpret the meaning of "Progressive" in progressive rock. Progressive does not mean "pushing the envelope" or any common meaning in that sense. Hell, every subgenre of rock listed at some point in history pushed the boundaries on our conception of the music, so going by that definition, aren't all the genres progressive, at some point?

The distinction between progressive and non-progressive, in terms of music, is sort of the distinction between jazz and classical. Jazz is based upon chorus structures, which loops until the end of the song, usually 12-bar blues or the 32-bar American pop song form (almost all of rock is based upon the 32-bar form). Progressive music, on the other hand, does not follow cyclical form, rather a song is made of movements, or a suite form, as found in classical (and lots of jazz, as well).

The meaning of "progressive" in prog-rock merely alludes to the song form, not some elitist notion of what constitutes innovation in the music. I guess the fact that prog-rock is often used interchangeably with art-rock (and dozens of other buzzwords), may confuse some. So, in conclusion, Pink Floyd IS prog-rock, even if you don't think they push musical boundaries far enough.
 

vacuumslayer

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I've always thought of Alternative as the alternative to Top 40. While there is the occasional Top 40 song I can't help digging and while some "Alternative" acts have cracked the Top 40, I still think that definition is fairly accurate.
 

Glorybox3737

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I just use rhapsody for defining my genres and sub genres. They are pretty accurate...plus they give an explanation about every genre.
 

Just_Sam

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Just to add my 2 cents and in my mind clarify,
Greenday - Not punk, maybe in much earlier day

And someone, not sure who, said Rancid as an example of punk, they are pop-punk

Also to get into genre's is very tedious, as genre's, especially rock and it sub-genre punk can be broken down to (possibly) hundreds of different sub-sub-genres.

I said genre a lot in that sentence.
 
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