Does ANY smartlist update on the new 4G touch?

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Code Monkey

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I'm not sure whether it's universal to iOS 4.1 or if it's a 4G touch issue, but I have found no smartlist, no matter how simple, that live updates on the 4G touch.

Anyone found different?

This does not make me happy.
 

Jesse Hollington

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It's an iOS 4.1 issue -- the iPhone has the same problem (still). I gave up a long time ago reporting in my articles that it still hasn't been fixed as I've been starting to feel like a broken record.... :rolleyes:
 

Jesse Hollington

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Nothing new here.... It's been broken since iOS 3.0. Syncing with iTunes is required to update Smart Playlists, which kind of defeats the purpose of "Live Updating."

More and more it seems like that's how Apple now intends Smart Playlists to work -- with iTunes required to update them. I realize that sounds insane, but so did the numbers-last sorting that Apple introduced in iTunes 7.3.... :shake:

(sigh)
 

tecweston

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More and more it seems like that's how Apple now intends Smart Playlists to work -- with iTunes required to update them.
Yep. Which is real frustrating for those of us that like to go a week or two in between syncs.

But live updating still works on my iPod nano 3rd gen, and so I now use it only for music. My iPod touch is for podcasts, internet, and apps, but the nano has nothing but smart playlists on it. :cool:

Kind of annoying to have two iPods rather than one that does everything I need it to, though.
 

rockmyplimsoul

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With iOS 4.0 Live Updating on my 2G Touch seemed to work for simple smart playlists, e.g. those based only on Rating and/or Last Played. Not very useful if you want to manage a library that is larger than the iPod's capacity. Now with 4.1, my test playlist* doesn't Live Update on the Touch. At least 4.1 has partial functionality in my Honda ...

*Rating is 5 stars and Last Played is > 7 days, limited to 50 songs selected at random
 

Jesse Hollington

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To be fair, though, if your primary use for Smart Playlists is simply to rotate music on and off of your iPod then syncing with iTunes is kind of necessary for that anyway, and they update just fine once you plug into iTunes.

For me it's the Smart Playlists that are intended to access a subset of music that is already on the device and do things like remove skipped or played tracks that is a particular problem, although I sync often enough (at least once per day), that it's fortunately little more than a minor annoyance for me.

I suppose if the rumours of a cloud-based sync or streaming service ever come to fruition this could all be rendered a lot less necessary, but that's still no excuse for it not working now.
 

crash613

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Nothing new here.... It's been broken since iOS 3.0. Syncing with iTunes is required to update Smart Playlists, which kind of defeats the purpose of "Live Updating."

More and more it seems like that's how Apple now intends Smart Playlists to work -- with iTunes required to update them. I realize that sounds insane, but so did the numbers-last sorting that Apple introduced in iTunes 7.3.... :shake:

(sigh)
oh don't say that!! That is just fodder for these apple-fan-bois to counter any argument that apple may have made a mistake somwhere! I know that is not you, from reading your postings over the years, but they will use that!


You know the drill. In the vein of the iphone, we have...

normal person: the iphone 4 has antenna issues.

fan-boi: "no, that is how it is supposed to be, you just don't know how to hold it."

now we have

normal person: live updating is broke!

fan-boi: "no, that is how it is supposed to be, you just don't know how to use it."

and the list goes on.




p.s. i am still salty over the whole numbers last thing too. idiocy!! In fact i hadn't updated itunes until just the beginning of the summer when i got my daughter a 2nd gen ipod touch. and as per usual...... "it's not a bug... that is how it is supposed to be."
 

tecweston

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To be fair, though, if your primary use for Smart Playlists is simply to rotate music on and off of your iPod then syncing with iTunes is kind of necessary for that anyway, and they update just fine once you plug into iTunes.

For me it's the Smart Playlists that are intended to access a subset of music that is already on the device and do things like remove skipped or played tracks that is a particular problem, although I sync often enough (at least once per day), that it's fortunately little more than a minor annoyance for me.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I use it for too. I have a 100-song smart playlist that pulls tracks from other smart playlists. When I listen to a song it deletes it and adds a new one on to the end.

A major advantage of having the songs live-update on the iPod itself (other than having the songs delete from the playlist once I've listened to them) is that it pulls songs from my New Stuff playlist, which is 1 GB of the newest albums I've purchased. Those are set to reappear every ten days, so I'd run out quickly if it didn't update live.
 

Jesse Hollington

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oh don't say that!! That is just fodder for these apple-fan-bois to counter any argument that apple may have made a mistake somwhere!
Well, the truth is that probably is how it's supposed to be from Apple's point of view. The point is that this doesn't make it right, and only a lunatic apologist would ever suggest that Apple never does anything wrong (not that there aren't a lot of those out there).

There's actually quite an annoying list of stupid things Apple has done in the iTunes and iPod lineup over the years that were obviously quiet, deliberate changes on their part that made absolutely no sense to any normal red-blooded consumer. :shake:
 

Jesse Hollington

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Yeah, that's pretty much what I use it for too. I have a 100-song smart playlist that pulls tracks from other smart playlists. When I listen to a song it deletes it and adds a new one on to the end.
Yeah, I have workout and sleep music playlists that operate on similar principles, limited by length of time (ie, 30 minutes worth of music).

A major advantage of having the songs live-update on the iPod itself (other than having the songs delete from the playlist once I've listened to them) is that it pulls songs from my New Stuff playlist, which is 1 GB of the newest albums I've purchased. Those are set to reappear every ten days, so I'd run out quickly if it didn't update live.
Yeah, the fact that Smart Playlists don't live update is even sillier when you consider that the iOS devices actually let you purchase content on the device. You'd think that the iTunes Store integration would be a compelling reason for Apple to actually make things like "Recently Added" work properly, but alas no....
 

Code Monkey

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At least 4.1 has partial functionality in my Honda ...

*Rating is 5 stars and Last Played is > 7 days, limited to 50 songs selected at random
So all I need is a Honda head unit to carry around in a backpack then ;)

Yeah, I made a test list very much like yours, just rating and last played and got nothing. Not that I'd go back, but damn, the 5G nano managed better than this and I thought its smartlist performance was awful.

I don't even know what you're supposed to do with smartlists under iOS other than swap music at sync, they're sure not useful for anything else.

So far the only thing I can think of is returning to the sort of system I used back in my mini days when no live updating worked and just create a series of ~8 hour filtered pools, shuffle those and wait on Apple to either officially kill them off or rewrite them at some point when, hopefully, the freedom from no clickwheel iPod holding their devs back will make it all magically work again, yeah, that's what's going to happen...
 

tecweston

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What do you think is Apple's motivation behind having smart playlists no longer work? Is it that they want us to use genius playlists instead? Is it just them overlooking something that got broken and nobody thought to fix it? I mean, it just seems crazy that an iPod touch, which is basically a miniature computer, can't accomplish the live-updating that a 1st generation iPod classic was able to do.
 

crash613

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....wait on Apple to either officially kill them off or rewrite them at some point when, hopefully, the freedom from no clickwheel iPod holding their devs back will make it all magically work again, yeah, that's what's going to happen...
come on, don't hate on the click wheel.. I'm sure you realize that the clickwheel devices are the only devices that live updating actually worked 100% on! My 80 gb Ipod 5.5 gen does playlists like nobody's business!
 

rockmyplimsoul

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To be fair, though, if your primary use for Smart Playlists is simply to rotate music on and off of your iPod then syncing with iTunes is kind of necessary for that anyway, and they update just fine once you plug into iTunes.

For me it's the Smart Playlists that are intended to access a subset of music that is already on the device and do things like remove skipped or played tracks that is a particular problem, although I sync often enough (at least once per day), that it's fortunately little more than a minor annoyance for me.
Yes, if all you're doing is using smart playlists to rotate the content on your iPod, then Live Updating really isn't necessary.

But under this scenario where your library exceeds the capacity of your iPod, all smart playlists on the iPod must be based on one or more other playlists -- the ones used to determine what is sync'd to the iPod. {Otherwise, a smart playlist such as "Classic 60s Rock > 4 Stars" might pull in music that is outside of the playlist(s) that determine what music gets added to the iPod.}

With that understanding, then smart playlists (other than the ones that determine the iPod contents) need Live Updating in order to:

- Show songs on the iPod that I haven't rated yet.

- Play all top Animals songs, but don't play any that I just heard in my "Classic 60s Rock" playlist this morning.

Yes these things update themselves upon each sync, and I normally sync every day, but the problem (for me) is when I'm away from my computer for extended periods and can't sync. Given that Apple's shuffle feature is so bad at being random, I really don't like hearing the same songs I've heard since the last sync.
 

rockmyplimsoul

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What do you think is Apple's motivation behind having smart playlists no longer work?
Clearly the device is quite capable (it works fine with OS 2.x and earlier). In my opinion it is simply that Apple can't be bothered to put resources on an issue that appeals to a "fringe element". Instead, our needs are set aside to develop bells and whistles like Genius. Sad really, Live Updating is what set iPods apart from any other DAP out there.
 

tecweston

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Sad really, Live Updating is what set iPods apart from any other DAP out there.
Right. It's the fact that I can just go to my smart playlist and hit play, and KNOW that I'm not going to hear the same songs I've just listened to, that make an iPod nano worth owning. Take that feature away and I'm moving to a much cheaper Sansa Fuze player or something similar.
 

Code Monkey

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come on, don't hate on the click wheel.. I'm sure you realize that the clickwheel devices are the only devices that live updating actually worked 100% on! My 80 gb Ipod 5.5 gen does playlists like nobody's business!
Not hating, just stating the closest I can come to optimism ;)

The problems for both clickwheel and iOS iPods started once Apple started trying to support both platforms. I am hoping against all common sense that with there being no more clickwheel iPod development that Apple will be able to get it working under iOS since if it's ever going to get fixed, that's where it will happen.

The only functioning iPod I own where live updating works properly is my 2G nano, and I'm not going to use it over my new touch :)
 

rockmyplimsoul

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The only functioning iPod I own where live updating works properly is my 2G nano, and I'm not going to use it over my new touch :)
If Steve was reading this, he'd now say "Ah-ha! So Live Updating isn't all that important to you afterall!" Face it, Apple has you by the short and curlies ;)

As for me, I'm going old school ... 2.2.1 here I come (again) ...
 

Jimmy T

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I can get some working

Since iOS4, simple playlists that don't include a limiting criteria (e.g. limit to 100 songs chosen by least recently played) will live update on my 64gb touch. You add a limit and live updating goes away. I really wish they would fix this and the compilations bug.
 
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