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Comparison Zen/iPod (no bashing)

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Phillyzero

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Comparison Zen/Ipod (no bashing)

Well especially in the past couple weeks, theres been lots of new contreversy over Creative Zen Vision: M, and the Ipod Video. I'd just like to post my 2 cents.

Zen Vision
-Better video quality (probably not as much as those compared photos, but its like 200k vs 65k on ipod)
-extra features (not very needed..)
-More video compatibility, more compatibility actually in most aspects

Ipod
-Thinner
-Better mechanics...click wheel..owns.
-Cheaper (not really a pro, since IF it had a power adapter, itd be same price as Zen)
-iTunes access
-Mac/Linux compatibility
-People have videora to get over the hurdle of video compatibility most of the time.
 

ipodlova

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And I too would like to post my $0.02.

the iPod is going to win again. Heres why:

1)Creative has not partnered with anyone to make a video store with TV shows and mini clips, or anything at all similar to iTunes.
2)iPod is thin. And thin is in.

But a few things give the Zen a figthing chance:

1)Finally, a propietary port.
2)Wider range of colors to choose from.
3)More video formats are supported.

Of course, I have neither the iPod nor the Zen but I will still back up my facts.
 

ipodphoto30

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i'm only going to defend the ipod here... i dont' know too much about creative zens.

ipods are way thinner.
look nicer.
click wheel is easier to use.

creative zens are just so.... so.... not an iPod!
 

mgmg

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Zen Vision
-Better video quality (probably not as much as those compared photos, but its like 200k vs 65k on ipod)
-extra features (not very needed..)
-More video compatibility, more compatibility actually in most aspects

iPod
-Thinner
-Better mechanics...click wheel..owns.
-Cheaper (not really a pro, since IF it had a power adapter, itd be same price as Zen)
-iTunes access
-Mac/Linux compatibility
-People have videora to get over the hurdle of video compatibility most of the time.

I think I have to say the Zen Vision beats out on the iPod in every way but design.

You have to realize that though the Zen Vision: M (I assume we're talking about that and not that Zen Vision) though nearly double the size of the iPod - this doesn't make it huge. In fact, it's the same thickness as the 4G ipods, I believe.

The Clickwheel does own, as the several review's I've read say, but the touch pad, verticle scroll pad, whatever they call it, works too.

As you said, if iPod included the Charger they would be the same price.

The Zen Vision: M is compatible with many other music subscription services though.

And (I'm just guessing), the iPod videora converter would work for the Zen Vision because it supports MPEG.

And why I think the Zen Vision: M is better for video...

It has double the batter life while playing video (4 hours), more color (262,144 > 64,000), customizable brightness settings, etc.

Plus, it supports more popular video formats:

DivX, XviD, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG4-SP, WMV-9, Motion-JPEG

Here are quotes about the screen:

Probably the first question people ask when reading this review is whether the Creative Zen Vision:M has a better screen than the video iPod. After all, Mr. Hoo should have already dissected the Apple's, and came up with countermeasures before hitting back. Putting the video iPod next the Zen, the Creative seems to take the lead with the colors on the 2.5" QVGA screen being very vivid and vibrant. The LCD's contrast is excellent.
everythingusb.com/creative_zen_vision:m_30gb.html

That review also has several pictures of the Zen and iPod side by side.

The most noticeable is the 262k colour screen that adorns the front of the unit. It is large, it is bright and it is amazingly clear. We have yet to show our test model to anyone that hasn’t been impressed by the quality and Creative should be awarded for its efforts here. The 262k is also noticeable against the 64k of that other MP3 player that also offers video in a handy pocket sized device on the market.
pocket-lint.co.uk/review.php?reviewId=1341

Photo comparing TV Out: flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=73135295&size=o

French Site with loads of Pictures: generationmp3.com/forum/Creative_ZEN_VisionM-t27828.html (It's a review, but it's in French :-/)

EDIT: Not an established member...could someone repost the links?
 
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baggss

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ipodphoto30 said:
i'm only going to defend the ipod here... i dont' know too much about creative zens.

ipods are way thinner.
look nicer.
click wheel is easier to use.

creative zens are just so.... so.... not an iPod!
While I agree with you, I have to ask this. If you know little about the Zens, how can you make statements like that?

-iPods are way thinner - Agreed. A check of both sites can prove that.
-Looks Nicer - Agreed. Subjective at best, and until you have tried, held and used both side by side you can't make a comparison accurately.
-Click Wheel is easier to use - Agreed. Again subjective, until you have tried both side by side you can't really say.

If you have actually tried what I mentioned in points 2 and 3 then you know more about the Zen and your initial statement is deceptive.

And despite all of this discussion (not just in this thread) iPods are selling like mad and the Zen...well....isn't.....
 

Macromedia

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http://generationmp3.com/forum/Creative_ZEN_VisionM-t27828.html
I can read most of it. Another good thing about being Canadian.

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=73135295&size=o

http://pocket-lint.co.uk/review.php?reviewId=1341
I know the screen is better on the zen but in some of the pictures beside the ipod could have been done in photoshop/fireworks. It looks over saturated and the ipod looks like it isn't that great. I say the ipod will win because of simple hype. It will take a lot of creative/iriver/iaudio/etc to get a bigger market share then 10%. If creative put out a 60gb version I'm sure more people would buy the zen and it being 50$ more then means it won't sell in Canada. There's quite a bit of gouging when it comes to electronics. Also for another 50$ you can upgrade to a 60gb ipod which means you get 20 hrs of battery life. Also they should have compared the video and audio in the same formats. Its no secret that formats can make a difference in battery life. I doubt the zen would last as long as 4 hrs for video if it used the same format as the ipod used. It would get around 3 hrs. Same with audio It would get less then 14.
 

Phillyzero

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O yeah, i heard that though Zen Vision M gets a little more video battery life, it seems to have less audio life for some reason.
 

Adam

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baggss said:
And despite all of this discussion (not just in this thread) iPods are selling like mad and the Zen...well....isn't.....
Do understand people do not use logic when investing in big purchases. They do what other people tell them to do.
 
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A true point, but people also tend to buy what feels good.

Back in the eighties the concept of buying a computer (for business) was that you "couldn't go wrong by buying IBM."

I think the same concept has today been applied to the iPod.... It's not just that other people are telling them to buy one, but it's the overall popularity, it's marketing, the number of accessories for it, and so forth, that would lead the average consumer to feel that they can't go wrong by buying an iPod.... and the truth is, if all they're looking to do is convert their existing CD collection onto a DAP, they're probably essentially correct. I don't think I've ever met a non-tech-savvy consumer who wouldn't be satisfied with an iPod.

Of course, the truth is that the same non-tech savvy consumers could probably be satisfied with just about anything the played music and was easy to use.... Unfortunately, this has traditionally left other products like the Zen out in the cold... They're just not as user-friendly or intuitive.

The truth is that technically savvy people are going to shop around for something that does what they want and/or has the features that they want, particularly if they're looking for something specific. Joe Consumer wants a device that will play his music in a simple and straightforward way, and the iPod seems to be that device.

I'm just speculating, but I think that if statistics and market-share on DAP purchases was considered in proportion with the number of technically knowledgeable people (computer geeks and/or audiophiles) who purchase them, you would probably find the iPod's market share to be much smaller among those groups.

I know a couple of people who are definitely not technical people, but railed against the iPod because it was "trendy" and "cool" (they wanted no part of that), and so they decided to purchase other devices instead. One purchased a ZEN, and I think the other one purchased an iRiver. Both of them ended up getting extremely frustrated with their devices and selling them to buy iPods after only a few minutes of playing with mine.

The iPod will continue to dominate as long as no other vendor can design a better marriage of simplicity with function, both in the player itself and in the computer software to support it.
 

baggss

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Adam said:
Do understand people do not use logic when investing in big purchases. They do what other people tell them to do.
Which explains why you chose the PC over the Mac recently, right? I mean, that's what everyone says is the best so it must be.
 

Adam

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I generalised based on the comment you made. I'm sure most people here would not fall under the same banner of 'uneducated consumer'.
 

Phillyzero

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jhollington said:
A true point, but people also tend to buy what feels good.

Back in the eighties the concept of buying a computer (for business) was that you "couldn't go wrong by buying IBM."

I think the same concept has today been applied to the iPod.... It's not just that other people are telling them to buy one, but it's the overall popularity, it's marketing, the number of accessories for it, and so forth, that would lead the average consumer to feel that they can't go wrong by buying an iPod.... and the truth is, if all they're looking to do is convert their existing CD collection onto a DAP, they're probably essentially correct. I don't think I've ever met a non-tech-savvy consumer who wouldn't be satisfied with an iPod.

Of course, the truth is that the same non-tech savvy consumers could probably be satisfied with just about anything the played music and was easy to use.... Unfortunately, this has traditionally left other products like the Zen out in the cold... They're just not as user-friendly or intuitive.

The truth is that technically savvy people are going to shop around for something that does what they want and/or has the features that they want, particularly if they're looking for something specific. Joe Consumer wants a device that will play his music in a simple and straightforward way, and the iPod seems to be that device.

I'm just speculating, but I think that if statistics and market-share on DAP purchases was considered in proportion with the number of technically knowledgeable people (computer geeks and/or audiophiles) who purchase them, you would probably find the iPod's market share to be much smaller among those groups.

I know a couple of people who are definitely not technical people, but railed against the iPod because it was "trendy" and "cool" (they wanted no part of that), and so they decided to purchase other devices instead. One purchased a ZEN, and I think the other one purchased an iRiver. Both of them ended up getting extremely frustrated with their devices and selling them to buy iPods after only a few minutes of playing with mine.

The iPod will continue to dominate as long as no other vendor can design a better marriage of simplicity with function, both in the player itself and in the computer software to support it.
well said.
 

Derek McNelly

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Creative has always designed a killer product, there is no denying that.

Apple has always desinged a killer product, there is no denying that, either.

But Apple has a distinct advantage over Creative:

User Friendly Products.

Apple's products have been user friendly since the original Macintosh back in 1984.

They were the first big selling personal computer with a GUI, and that was the selling point!

You didn't need to learn 27,000,000 commands to get the system running, and people liked that. You just clicked and got where you needed to go!

Apple kept that in mind with the iPod, and that's how their products remain today. As much as Creative tries to push "The fastest way between two points is a straight line", the clickwheel is much more user friendly.
 

thedodgyguy

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I for one am waiting for the Zen to thud upon these shores. I've always liked Zens, but they have been generally way too clunky compared to equivalent iPods. The Zen Micro/Touch took a leap forward in being nearly as usable as an iPod, if still very clunky hardware-wise. The Vision could be one which gets really, really close, if not better. I'm looking forward to getting one... it's got to be better than the H320 (long gone) or the X5 (gathering dust) in any case.
 

WK CrazyHorse

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The iPod has another big thing going for it-- Mac compatibility.
Many things about he new iPod (such as being forced to convert video to the proper format) that agitate people are much less apparent on the Mac. All it takes to convert all your videos over is QuickTime Pro.
 

Adam

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My iHP-120 is compatible with anything you plug it in to. You can even get music off an iPod (with a USB host gadget) and listen to it right away....
 

iPodder88

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Ipod Vs Creative Zen Vision: M

I know it may be a little biased putting a comparison like this on an iPod forum, but hopefully some of you guys can make comparisons and rate the overall better player?
 

thedodgyguy

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User interface: iPod
Controls: iPod
Implementation of user interface in firmware: ZVM (i.e. ZVM could be better overall if only they didn't implement stupid controls physically)
Screen quality under optimal conditions: ZVM
Actual screen quality under real-world conditions: iPod
Video codec variety: ZVM
Better video player if you use PVR's and DVD rips: None (both need transcoding)
Better video player if you download most of your video in DivX/XVid: ZVM
Built-in Function: ZVM
Audio quality @ flat EQ: Tied for quality. ZVM sounds more neutral, iPod sounds brighter
Audio quality when amped from line out: Tied for quality.
EQ: ZVM (has custom EQ)
Actual quality of EQ'd sound: iPod (ZVM EQ noticealby 'fuzzifies' sound)
Radio: iPod + remote has edge in station pickup, usability but at additional cost
Voice recording: Pretty crappy on ZVM. iPod can do a better job, but at additional cost.
Photo import via USBOTG: iPod (ZVM has no such ability)
Photo viewing features: ZVM (zoom, etc)
Drop resistance, uncased: Probably ZVM due to thick bathtub alloy chassis
Video battery life: ZVM (double 30Gb iPod)
Audio battery life: ZVM (has a variety of power-saving features which can be deployed to keep the player playing longer)
Size: iPod
Third-party support: iPod


In my case I use the ZVM solely for Napster To Go. I use the iPod for CD rips and even video, as everything I watch is DVD rips and footage from my PVR. If Apple did subscription services, the ZVM would be out of the door. Your results may vary.
 
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