A Music Debate...

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Emultion_Rawks

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Well, I'm having a Debate with a friend of mine about The Beatles, and whether or not they influenced all Music from after they became famous.

My stance is that they most definatly did not influence all Music. In-fact, they have influenced very little, in my opinion. My friend is a 'Mainstream Music Listener', and I think hasn't really discovered Bands such as The Libertines, Babyshambles, Dirty Pretty Things, The New Pornographers, The Charlatans UK, The Go-Betweens, Maximo Park, and the list goes on...

One current track which he has said has been influenced heavily by The Beatles, (I stress heavily!), is Arctic Monkeys song, 'Mardy Bum'. I completely disagree, and that would have been one of my least likely choices if asked to find a song with The Beatles as a strong influence.

What does everyone here think?
 

GadgetGuru72

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I think your definition of "influenced" is a little skewed. A band does not have to be a carbon copy of another band to have been or to be influenced by them. The Beatles introduced the world to a new sound and a new style, both of which influenced most rock bands that followed ... mainstream and indy. In fact, The Beatles paved the road for each and every one of the indy bands you mentioned. So, to answer your question, I do believe that The Beatles influenced most (perhaps all) rock music that followed.
 

Emultion_Rawks

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Alright, I don't agree with you at all, but alright. Let's leave Rock Music for a second. I was just mentioning Rock Music as an example, by the way. What about Hip-Hop? I know you are into it, so where would The Beatles come into that?

And my definition of 'Influenced' is right, yours is skewed. :D Seperate 'Influenced' from 'Inspired' for a second...
 

GadgetGuru72

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Emultion_Rawks said:
And my definition of 'Influenced' is right, yours is skewed. :D Seperate 'Influenced' from 'Inspired' for a second...
Sorry, buddy. The simple fact that you stated that the Arctic Monkeys aren't influenced by The Beatles is proof enough that your definition of "influenced" is way off. ;)

Emultion_Rawks said:
What about Hip-Hop? I know you are into it, so where would The Beatles come into that?
I think hip-hop (i.e., real hip-hop, not the mainstream rap on the radio today) is influenced more by jazz and blues, so I'd say The Beatles have very little influence on that world.
 

toothpaste

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Emultion_Rawks said:
Alright, I don't agree with you at all, but alright. Let's leave Rock Music for a second. I was just mentioning Rock Music as an example, by the way. What about Hip-Hop? I know you are into it, so where would The Beatles come into that?

And my definition of 'Influenced' is right, yours is skewed. :D Seperate 'Influenced' from 'Inspired' for a second...

Hip-hop sources its sounds from jazz, soul, funk and blues. Hip-hop is more improvisional than rock, which is also drawn from its roots. The Beatles dont' influence hip-hip at all, unlike some of the bands you mentioned. Althought DangerMouse's Grey Album shows the depth of a good hip-hop producer, using The Beatles White Album and JayZ's Black Album.
 

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I'd have to go with GadgetGuru's interpretation of "influenced". All influence means is to "affect the nature, development, or condition of; modify." Any effect is influential.

To say the Beatles affected all music is ignoring a lot of musical progression in the 20th century. The Beatles introduced some chord progressions that are still frequently used, but certainly not ubiquitous. It could be argued that the Rolling Stones have more similarity with most modern rock. I'd also credit Clapton for mixing blues & reggae with rock, and Stevie Wonder and others for funk & soul. Latin, African, & Middle Eastern influences have also become more common in the past decade.

And that's just popular music. Go beyond that, and the "all music" argument really falls flat. There is a lot of orchestral music being produced for movie soundtracks as well that sells quite well. Just how much of the Beatles do you hear in the Lord of the Rings soundtrack? Electronic, New Age, and Metal are other genres that probably have little or no Beatles influence.
 

mrdantownsend

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I'd say some of the foo fighters later songs, like "cold day in the sun" kinda sounds like the beetles, but out of all the music i listen to, thats all I can think of
 

Sypher

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Emultion_Rawks said:
Well, I'm having a Debate with a friend of mine about The Beatles, and whether or not they influenced all Music from after they became famous.

My stance is that they most definatly did not influence all Music. In-fact, they have influenced very little, in my opinion. My friend is a 'Mainstream Music Listener', and I think hasn't really discovered Bands such as The Libertines, Babyshambles, Dirty Pretty Things, The New Pornographers, The Charlatans UK, The Go-Betweens, Maximo Park, and the list goes on...

One current track which he has said has been influenced heavily by The Beatles, (I stress heavily!), is Arctic Monkeys song, 'Mardy Bum'. I completely disagree, and that would have been one of my least likely choices if asked to find a song with The Beatles as a strong influence.

What does everyone here think?
While they obviously haven't influenced all music, they were incredibly influential on rock music, and I don't really see how you can argue otherwise. For example, the fact that they mixed so many disparate styles and influences together was fairly ground-breaking, no? And I'm sure there's a list of bands who cite the Beatles as an influence out there somewhere. For now... I'll just direct you to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles'_influence


btw, I swear everyone knows bands like Maximo Park and the Libertines. In the UK anyway...
 

Emultion_Rawks

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Hehe, you would think, wouldn't you?

I don't think The Beatles mixed that many styles together. Yes, they did something new, but it wasn't that interesting, at least to me. Funnily enough, I do like their Song, 'Twist And Shout', only none of them actually wrote it...

Plus, I think if The Beatles weren't the first to do these things, and if they only came around now, with the exact same material, I'm not sure how much of a splash they would make. Of course, the same might be said for other Bands, but still...
 

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Emultion_Rawks said:
Plus, I think if The Beatles weren't the first to do these things, and if they only came around now, with the exact same material, I'm not sure how much of a splash they would make. Of course, the same might be said for other Bands, but still...
What's your point? Are you trying to say that The Beatle's are overrated. If so, you've done a pretty sorry job of it. The main thing that makes The Beatle's the greatest band of all time is the fact that they were amazing innovators.
 

Emultion_Rawks

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MellowTone41 said:
What's your point? Are you trying to say that The Beatle's are overrated. If so, you've done a pretty sorry job of it. The main thing that makes The Beatle's the greatest band of all time is the fact that they were amazing innovators.
Fine. The Beatles are over-rated. And I like your joke about The Beatles being the greatest Band of all time. :rolleyes:
 

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Emultion_Rawks said:
Hehe, you would think, wouldn't you?

I don't think The Beatles mixed that many styles together. Yes, they did something new, but it wasn't that interesting, at least to me.
"Da Doo Run Run" and "Leader of the Pack" would be laughed at right now, but they were hits the same year the Beatles had 18 charting hits (in one year, 1964, according to about.com). That's pretty significant, and that was just their beginning. But then, what was important in 1963 is what people liked in 1963, not what someone would like 43 years later.

The whole idea of "greatest band of all time" would depend on your criteria. If your criteria is what might be interesting right now, then your supposedly greatest band would probably be some band that just started up a few years ago and might break up next month...i.e. its not a very good criteria. The "greatest band of all time" (IMO) would have to have some longevity, several albums, and a good number of hits. I'm no big Beatles fan, but I can't think of anyone better for that (inane) title. Who would you pick?

A lot of music these days sound more like the Kinks "You Really Got Me"..and that was in 1964 as well.
 
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iMacc

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Gadget hit the proverbial 'nail on the head' with this simple little sentence. End of thread. Sorry ER but you are totally wrong.


GadgetGuru72 said:
The Beatles introduced the world to a new sound and a new style, both of which influenced most rock bands that followed ... mainstream and indy. In fact, The Beatles paved the road for each and every one of the indy bands you mentioned.
 

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The Beatles are at least in my top 5 favorite bands, and they did influence ll the bands you listed, E_R...

Hip-hop. The only influence they had on it, is if some song that was influenced by the Beatles was sampled.
 

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iMacc said:
End of thread. Sorry ER but you are totally wrong.
Considering the subjectivity of this...er...subject, I'm not sure anyone can really be wrong...
 

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Sypher said:
For an article about the Beatle's influence, they sure mention other bands a lot. They credit the Beatles for things other bands were doing at the time, like the use of bass guitar & drums. The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, The Zombie, The Animals...all had influential songs in 1964, the same year as the Beatle's first album.

Looking over the '60's songs that clearly relate to today's music, I think Gadget's assertion that they "paved the road for each and every one of the indy bands [ER] mentioned" is an exaggeration, but I also disagree with ER's assertion that "they have influenced very little". I'd say its somewhere in the middle - they've been a greater influence than most bands, but there have been plenty of other bands that have been influential as well.
 

bdb

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baggss said:
Considering the subjectivity of this...er...subject, I'm not sure anyone can really be wrong...
I think some people just find it horribly politically incorrect to say that the Beatles are anything but the world's greatest band and the influencer of all music. :rolleyes:

What the Beatles did was significant enough that they deserve due credit, but that doesn't mean we have to credit them for everything that happened in the last century!
 

Emultion_Rawks

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bdb said:
I'm no big Beatles fan, but I can't think of anyone better for that (inane) title. Who would you pick?
I would possibly pick Queen as the greatest Band of all time... Perhaps Aerosmith... I agree, mostly, with what you think the criteria for grestest Band of all time is, although it's a very hard choice to make. As well as everything you mentioned, I think the greatest Band of all time must have great talent, they must show it in their Songs, and they must have a few fast Guitar Solos. :D I see that The Beatles had some talent, but in my opinion they don't even come close to having the same kind of talent as Queen.

To get One thing straight; I'm not trying to bash The Beatles! I do like a few of their Songs. I just don't think they are influential to all Music that is around at the moment. I'll ease up a bit and say I can see how they might be influential to some Music, but I would not say all Music.
 

baggss

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bdb said:
I think some people just find it horribly politically incorrect to say that the Beatles are anything but the world's greatest band and the influencer of all music. :rolleyes:

What the Beatles did was significant enough that they deserve due credit, but that doesn't mean we have to credit them for everything that happened in the last century!
Part of the problem I suspect is that most people, especially here, tend to think of "all music" as being Rock and its various sub-categories. While there has been some mention of RAP and their lack of influence on it, most folks don't even begin to consider the myriad of other musical styles/genres out there that have been in no way, shape or form impacted by them.
 
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