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EDIT, 1/18/05 Guide now posted at:

Guide 2. Convert Audiobook tape cassettes to Bookmarking iPod/iTunes files. PC only.
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I am about to try to convert audio book cassettes to bookmarkable iPod files and, if successful, to write a guide for doing so. I will place the guide in the CD to bookmarkable thread and ask for an addition to its title.

A friend gave me a bunch of old audio book cassette tapes, so
I bought a dual audio cassette deck on ebay for $45 (didn't have one with RCA outputs), gotten into the dust and tangle of wires behind my computer to locate the sound card line in plug, and searched for and read posts in the lounge.

Would be interested in answers and experience with the following questions and issues:

1. What software is best? PolderbitS? What do you use and a rough outline of how?
2. Hints and suggestions like Stensvaag's "set option to 'Line-In' (only)." Any other warnings or hints?
3. Has anyone found software to directly convert to AAC while caputuring cassette audio?
4. What are the file type extensions in addition to m4a that will convert to m4b bookmarkable files?

I am sure I more questions will arise.

My inclination is to try the conversions with PolderbitS. Below you can see my inquiry to them. I suggested that they provide an option of intial conversion to AAC with an m4b extension. Although I got good and thorough answers to my questions, I was met with "we are PC where the bulk of users are." I suggested in a reply that there was a substantial PC user market for AAC for iTunes/iPod. We may want to bombard them with requests for a direct AAC conversion. The melded and slightly edited query and answers were:

Quote: Dear Robert,

Thank you for your interest in the PolderbitS Sound Recorder and Editor.
In answer to your questions:

A1) A cassette tape deck (or any other kind of audio system) having Line-Out RCA outputs can indeed be connected to the Line-In input on the PC directly. No additional amplification is needed.

Q2. Can one set the unit to play through all four sides of two cassettes with a dual cassette deck without intervention? Does your software manage the process, to minimize human intervention?
A2) Using the Compact Disc stereo recording quality you can record up to 3 hours and 20 minutes in each recording session. That should fit at least 4 cassette sides of 90 minute cassettes.
In the Editor you can use the track-splitting functions to automatically split a long recording into separate tracks (songs; sound files).
The automatic track splitter looks for relative silences of at least 2 seconds to determine the splitting positions of tracks.
This fails with certain types of music or sound, for example if the silence in between the tracks is shorter than 2 seconds, or if the music is not loud enough to determine the relative silence.
If the automatic track-splitter cannot find all the track separations by itself, then you can also manually set the track separations by right-clicking inside the Wave view at the silent positions and then select "Split here into two tracks" from the menu that will pop up.

Q3. How does one manage the process to stop when the cassette(s) finish playing?

A3) You can use the recording timer function in the Sound Recorder to automatically stop recording after a pre-set amount of time. If the timer is not set, the Recorder will only automatically stop recording if the maximum recording time is reached.
The maximum recording time for one recording session is limited by the maximum file size in Windows.
You can record up to 3 hours and 20 minutes in each session, using the Compact Disc stereo sound quality.
To record for more than 3 hours and 20 minutes in one session, you must select a lower sound quality.
Compact Disc mono, or FM-radio stereo for example, doubles the maximum recording time to 6 hours and 40 minutes.
FM-radio mono, or Telephone stereo doubles it again to 13 hours and 20 minutes.


Q4. What PolderbitS settings would you suggest for audio books? The likely standard is to convert between 16 to 128 kbps.


A4.) The bit rate used with saving as mp3, depends on the required sound quality in relation to the resulting storage space.
That's up to you to decide.
The lower the bit-rate, the lower the resulting sound quality and file size.
The higher the bit-rate, the higher the resulting sound quality and file size.
In the Save window of the Editor you can select from pre-defined sound qualities with certain bit-rates, but these pre-defined qualities can be changed to use any other desired bit-rate.


Q4. Will your software directly convert to AAC or another format which will allow renaming to m4b to become bookmarkable?

A4 The only compression technology supported by our software is mp3 and mp3PRO. We have no plans to support any other compression technology soon. Whether or not .mp3 sound files can simply be renamed to .m4b, is something I don't know (see answer 6 as well). [Robert's edit: mp3 files simply renamed m4b do not bookmark. AAC conversion is required]
Q5. Any suggestions or links, other than your cassette to cd, that you can think of that would help a novice in converting audio tapes or cd's to m4b files?
A5) The software is "easy-to-use" and comes with many tips and hints built-in.
If you haven't done so yet, you can download the setup program of the Sound Recorder and Editor from our Internet site at:
http://www.polderbits.com and execute it to install the software on your computer. It will start a 14-day trial period, during which it is fully functional. This allows you to try it out without any obligation.
Q6. Would you be willing to review what I create as a guide, similar to my iPodlounge.com Guide: Copying Audio CD's into Bookmarking iTunes/iPod file to correct or make suggestions for improvement
A6) I must start with saying that I am not into iPod, or any other iMac technology at all. We primarily target Microsoft Windows users because that's most common out there.
I took a brief look at the article you mentioned, but you lost me after a couple of lines already. If this is meant to be an "easy step-by-step" guide, you should not use any technical terms and abbreviations. Try to use language your grandmother would understand. People already knowing about all those tech terms, won't need and read your guide anyway.
Q7. Could I use your software to convert any sound played from any source on my computer to a wav, acc file that could be renamed to m4b?
A7) Yes. See answer 5 as well.

If you have any further questions, then please let me know.

With best regards,
Rudy

Thanks, all.

Robert

It's late, and I cannot write a long post, but I have converted hundreds of hours of audio tape books very happily with PolderBits.

1. Be sure to select Line In, to avoid getting background noise from warning bells and alerts on your PC.

2. Set it to Stereo, even if you have a mono input, because you'll want stereo audio books on the iPod to avoid the problem experienced in 4G units discussed in a separate thread here on this forum.

3. When the Sound Recorder is done doing real-time recording of the tape-deck output/input to PC, choose Save As uncompressed WAV file. This is important, because such files can be directly imported into iTunes and then converted to AAC.

Is it clumsy to have to go through 2 steps, rather than one, to convert audio tape to AAC? Sure! But the step in which iTunes converts the uncompressed WAV file to an AAC file is MUCH, MUCH faster than the step in which audio tapes are played in real time into the PC and converted to WAV files. And the end result is terrific: audio books on the iPod that would otherwise never be possible.

Happy iPoding!

John-Mark

I've done it also using similar method to Stevensvaag. However, once I got over the novelty of figuring out how to do it, I decided it was a not worth the time and effort for me.

Its easy enough to do, but time consuming, because you have to record each tape in real time. (often 8-20 hours of play time or more) I decided for all the time it took to record, monitor, save, clip the dead air, convert the file format, join the tracks, label tracks and import it, I might as well just listen to the cassette. Its just a lot easier to use the Walkman if I want to listen to something on cassette.

Since books are somehting I don't often listen to more than once, I just decided its not worth the effort, in most cases. So I just bite the bullet and use the walkman, or in a couple cases found the books at Audible, and got digital versions on sale for ten bucks.

Quote: Originally posted by parannoya
I've done it also using similar method to Stevensvaag. However, once I got over the novelty of figuring out how to do it, I decided it was a not worth the time and effort for me.

I'd agree with this sentiment. Thus far for me, an avid audiobook-listener, I've got plenty of material to listen to on CDs from my local library, downloads from Audible.com and gifts of books on CDs from family/friends.

maybe, but I cannot find an unabridged Alexander Hamilton on CD and since PolderbitS will time the recording, I figure it is relatively unattended. And, I have been given a collection of audio cassettes. Anyway, that is what trying it for ones self is all about.
Thanks for the advice. If it gets too complicated, I may abandon the project.

I imported a audio cassette book on tape and also found it to be time consuming and a pain.

I used audacity (freeware) and a cord that had a headphone jack on each end plugged into the microphone input. Audacity will save the file as a wav and also has an option to convert to .mp3. Audacity shows the recording as a sound level graph, so it is easy to find the end of the tape if you let it continue to record after the tape stops. If I found something real intresting that I could not get on CD I might do it agin, but otherwise I would not bother.

Robert,

FYI,I noticed that Audible has Hamilton on their coming soon list.

BTW, kinda funny. The book that I had set out to convert from tape was Titan- also by Chernow. Audible doesn't have it. I chucked most of by old books on tape but I kept that one.

Thank you parannoya. You saved me a LOT of trouble! I will wait until Jan 25 and hope it is the unabridged version. As I said somewhere else, I had a conversation with the Chernow at a booksigning, and he said the abridged version was quite a different book from the unabridged.

Sorry to be a kill-joy, but I'm guessing that since only the abridged version appears available (check out Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com), that the Audible version of the Hamilton book will be unabridged.

Similar situation: I'd like to have DBC Pierre's book Vernon God Little. It was included on Audible's "Coming Soon!" page about a month ago. When it became available on Aubible, I was disappointed to learn that it was the abridged version.

There is an unabridged audio cassette version of Alexander Hamilton available at amazon, so I hold out hope that the audible version will be unabridged. We may have to set up a mutual exchange. :-)

Quote: Originally posted by Stensvaag
...I have converted hundreds of hours of audio tape books very happily with PolderBits.

1. Be sure to select Line In ...

2. Set it to Stereo ... to avoid the problem experienced in 4G units ...

3. ... choose Save As uncompressed WAV file .. directly import[ed] into iTunes and then convert[ed] to AAC.

John-Mark

I have, after one false start successfully converted 20 minutes of an audiobook cassette. With PolderbitS settings at FM Stereo and iTunes preferences settings at Custom Stereo 32kbps, results were:

103718 kb uncompressed wav file
4.8mb aac
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Questions:
What setting does it make sense to choose in PolderbitS recording quality when doing audio cassette tapes? Recording quality for other devices of higher or digital quality? (Stereo, of course, to avoid 4G+ lock up.)
Choices: Sampling Rate
DVD/SACD 48,000 Hz
Compact Disc 44,000 Hz
FM Radio 22,050 Hz
Telephone 11,025 HZ

Set what kbps bit rate in iTunes?

I don't want to create a larger file by choosing a higher setting than the prior sound. Obviously cannot cannot transport into the conversion or create quality that is not there.

Sound level Setting. I turned my cassette deck to full and then adjusted the PolderbitS Sound Recorder to just below seeing red peaks. Is this optimum? If not, how?
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My first attempt was interrupted by a PolderbitS message that said there was a problem with my response time resulting from
1. performing another task that put heavy load on computer
2. Some other program interrupting (virus checkers or email
programs checking for mail, etc)
3. Processor too slow
4. Hard disk too slow.

The aborted attempt had gotten as far as side two of Tape 1, so Using a dual tape cassette deck the tapes will automatically proceed from tape one side A to side B to tape 2 side A to side B and then stop. I am anticipating that setting the PolderbitS timer at 6 hours for this two tape book will make an unattended conversion of the two tape audiobook into a wav file which I can convert to aac. So that I will not have an interruption, I will set this up and see what it does overnight. Appears that I can trim the blank tape part off the wav file.

So far, it looks like this will be very easy with minimal involvement from me. Put the tapes in, make the settings including PolderbitS Sound Recorder timer, turn every thing on, leave, come back the next morning and do the aac conversion and delete the wav file.

OK, Guide is posted. Would appreciate anyone posting corrections or suggestions in this thread.

Link to Guide:

Guide 2. Convert Audiobook tape cassettes to Bookmarking iPod/iTunes files. PC only.

Solution using PolderbitS software in conjunction with a dual cassette tape deck that plays both cassettes in proper sequence. Recording with PolderbitS initially in CD 44,100 Hz mono ultimately creates 6 hour audio file. Possibly up to 13:20 using FM Radio 22,050 Hz mono quality if one exchanged tapes during process. May be file-size limited due to large files initially created. AAC compression (in stereo to avoid 4G lockup bug) subsequently reduces file size considerably.

Robert, you're in luck. Audible got the ful length unabridged version of Hamilton.

Quote: Originally posted by parannoya
Robert, you're in luck. Audible got the ful length unabridged version of Hamilton.

All Right!!!! Thanks for letting me know. Earlier than audible promised, too. If you hadn't alerted me that it was coming, I would have bought the expensive UA cassette version and been really irritated that I didn't know about, and wait for, the audible.com digital version. The audible site says the unabridged version is available, but the link is not working yet. Probably not quite available. But, as I noted earllier, Chernow said to me at a book signing, that the abridged version is almost a completely different book from the unabridged.

Downloading Hamilton as I type. and going out of town tomorrow, so it will be nice to take it with me as I am one hour from finishing my current book.

Thanks again,

Robert

The audio cassette tape post is pretty much finished (see link to below), subject to catching errors and suggesting improvements. With a continuous play dual cassette deck that plays both cassettes, recording in CD quality 44,100 Hz, mono, I can load two cassettes, turn on the player, and go to bed to awaken to a file that has only to go thru AAC stereo conversion and renaming. Hamilton, at 36:59, would be a little over 6 files. (Audible has 5 parts.) Creating the six files would not have been too bad, but I am much happier not having to do that.