Ripping to Wave then encoding later?

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tubedogg

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Got a question.

I have about 7000 songs in 128Kbps CBR MP3 right now on my PC. I got an iPod last weekend, and I have Media Center 9. I am planning on reripping my collection from CD into VBR using alt-preset standard as recommended here. However, I have a large number of CDs and not a lot of free time to sit around babysitting the computer. So my question is this...could I rip into wave format, which I understand to be lossless (?), which takes pratically no time at all, then use MC9's built-in convertor to mass-convert to MP3 while I'm not around? Let me rephrase, I know I *can* do it this way, I messed around with MC9 enough to figure that much out, my question is will this affect the quality of the final product? Will it be worse than if I let it rip and encode at the same time? I wouldn't think it would, cause I have unchecked "Rip & encode simultaneously" which (coupled with the "delete temp wave file when done" option) makes me believe that this process rips to wave, then converts, which would be what I'm doing albeit slightly more staggered...

So will this affect quality? :D Thanks!
 

CarveGybe

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There are a lot of people who can't tell the difference between 128kbps and VBR - make sure you'll really notice it before you do all that re-ripping!
 

BobU

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tubedogg --

First of all, CarveGybe is right. Make sure you'll appreciate the difference between 128kbps and VBR before you embark on your mammoth conversion.

I use to 'rip and encode' simultaneously but it is time consuming with the result being I was lucky to do more than half a dozen CDs in an evening.

I now rip to WAV and batch convert later (when I'm away from the PC) and there is no discernable difference in audio quality nor should I think that there should be -- it's the same encoding method after all.

HOWEVER, it has got me thinking and hopefully someone can answer this for me....

With "VBR -- rip and encode simultaneously", I sometimes encountered tracks that failed to rip because of e.g. scratches on the CD...use to get a message along the lines of "Rip failed after 16 attempts to read good data"

I've not come across this problem with the "Rip to WAV-- encode later" method which is either lucky (entirely possible as I've been ripping newly purhcased CDs with this method) or that the rip to WAV isn't reporting any CD errors and the encoding then proceeds with whatever WAV file has been produced.

Anyone know how the "Rip to WAV-- encode later" process would handle defective CDs ???
 

holthaus

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Here some good hints

Get EAC
Find LAMEB (use google)
Read all info that you get with LameB and make your own batch
file.

Get as many Plextor 40X scsi drives as you box can handle.
SCSI card to go with it.

I can rip 6 cds at once using this process....you must have
lots of disk space to hold the wave files.

Rip away....
when finished for the bed....start the batch file and go to bed.
wake up in the morning with a new set of MP3's to listen to
 

soulrock

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tubedogg
The final result is the same. As you said, it is basically the same as unchecking the rip and encode simultaneously button. I use this method and it is a time-saver if there ever was one! I definately recommend this for you because I can definately tell the difference b/w 128CBR and VBR and if you have any ear at all for music you probably will too.


Bob
I imagine that your newer cds are the difference. I still get a bunch of "rip failed after 16 attempts." I am still burning my collection and some of the older cds are scratched up pretty good.


Tony

*Edited*
 
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tubedogg

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Thanks for the answers, guys. I wish I had the money for the setup you suggest, holthaus!
 

holthaus

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Another hint...check ebay for the Plextor Drives.
That is where I was able to grab 3 of them.
Got 3 refurbs.....it was worth the money in time I saved.
Nothing like processing 200 cds in a night
 

RandyP

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Since I save my files as WAVs after doing some research, I think I can help here. First, the WAV file is a direct copy of the digital data obtained from the CD. You can find the details of a WAV file at this site: Wotsit's Format by entering WAV in the search field, then selecting the 12Kb download of the Microsoft WAV format near the bottom. The various data chunks save the sampling frequency, width of the data, and numerous other parameters. If the WAV file doesn't match the original data on the CD bit-for-bit, there's a bug in the WAV encoder.

OK, having established that WAVs are lossless copies, what does that mean? For me, with MC9, it means I can rip everything as WAVs, code them in LAME's "Normal" setting rapidly, and have them for listening "right away". At night, I batch up a list of WAV-to-MP3 conversions at the highest quality settings, which takes a long time to process. Eventually, all the Normal MP3s are replaced with Quality MP3s as time permits.

The fact is, I don't actually save WAVs themselves... I use the APE encoder in MC. Before encoding my WAVs to APEs, I ran quite a few tests and verified for myself that it is truly lossless, bit-for-bit, throughout the audio portion of the file. The reason I store them as APEs, is because MC's extended tags are all stored in APEs so I can rebuild the database simply by importing the APE files. MC9 doesn't store its tag data in the RIFF tag fields of a WAV file; I don't know why.

So my answer is Yes, definitely store your CDs in APE format, then encode them to MP3. One day the iPod may support OGG, and all you'll have to do is batch up a file conversion and your OGG collection will be purely encoded from the original, and will even contain all the tags (assuming you treat the APEs as masters and always keep their tags current to your MP3s).
 

clintb

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RandyP has got it down. I do pretty much the same thing, but with different tools.

Rip with EAC and Plextor 40x Max SCSI drive
Encode to .mac with Monkey's Audio frontend
Tag with "The Godfather"
Convert with Monkey's Audio frontend (to .mp3 or whatever the flavor is)
Tag the resulting .mp3 with "The Godfather"
Hit all albums with mp3gain using 89db Album Gain
 

RandyP

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Hit all albums with mp3gain using 89db Album Gain
Right on. I have a minor variation here. Since I listen from everthing from No Doubt to Beethoven, I've made two directory structures.

If you look at a No Doubt album in CoolEdit, you'll see they take the audio signal "from rail to rail"... but not *every* song. Same with Garbage, etc.

Classical music, especially string quartets or instrumental duets, have wide volume ranges from movement to movement. These are intentional and indicated by the composer. The toughest album I've run across is Anne Queffelec's compilation of works by Erik Satie.

So... I have a directory structure for music I want to use mp3gain's Track Analysis method (the rock music), and another structure for the MP3s I want adjusted with Album Analysis.
 

tubedogg

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Dragging this up from the grave...so you're saying if I store the APE files*, and then create MP3s from there, but don't remove the APE files, that I would be able to later convert from APE to, say, AAC without any quality loss? That would be sweet! Instead of reripping every time a new format comes out.

* ROFL i just got it - monkey's encoder, APE files, lol
 

tubedogg

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Also, what setting do you use for encoding APE files? (i.e. High, Extra High, etc.)
 

tubedogg

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After reading a bit more about Monkey's Audio, am I correct in surmising it is essentially a compressed wave file (compressed in the WinZIP lossless sense, not the MP3 lossy sense)?
 

clintb

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Correct, Monkey's Audio is lossless. If you wish to later de-compress a .ape file, it will be the same exact .wav as what you originally ripped.

Monkey's Audio as an archival format and Foobar 2K as a player/converter takes care of all my music needs.
 

tubedogg

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Cool...Glad I figured this out only 1/4 of the way through reripping, now I get to start over again. ;)
 

RandyP

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tubedogg said:
Also, what setting do you use for encoding APE files? (i.e. High, Extra High, etc.)
I use Normal. No matter what you choose, the compression is lossless. If you go to High or Extra High, it will take more time to compress and give you a smaller APE file... but the decoded WAV file will be no different than the Normal setting.

I ordered Adobe Audition, since they are making it available for $99 if you own Cool Edit 2000 (which I do). I'm hoping there is an APE plug-in for it. Right now, if I want to edit an APE file in Cool Edit 2000, I have to convert it to a WAV file. The header information is lost in the process (at least, when using MC9). If there's an APE plug-in for Audition, I'll be able to edit the APE files directly.

I compared APE to WMA lossless. On the average, APE is 12% more compressed than WMA lossless. Whoever "Monkey" is... you did a good job!
 

tubedogg

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The interface in MC9 confused me a bit cause it still said "Quality" next to High, Extra High, etc. instead of "compression level" or something like that. Once I realized that it was like WinZIP, I figured out it doesn't matter. :)
 
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