OK, got the Zen Vision M. Questions?

[thedodgyguy]

I seem to keep coming back to each generation of iPod from everything else I buy because of the overall usage experience. So I don't think I'm a fanboy, the kind I know has plagued this board a bit in the last few weeks... and my latest non-iPod is the ZV:M which I've been using for a few days. Any questions?


(in case anyone is wondering, the 5G has the Agent18 on it)

[moe_4eva]

well, how does it compare to the iPod? I was considering this, but didn't go with it because the bells and whistles associated with it just didn't impress me enough, and the size was bigger than the iPod. So, functionality wise, how does it compare?

[mrdantownsend]

I am also thinking about getting something other after my iPod dies (which i hope is never!) and was wondering if the Vision: M has a nice interface and good transfer software.

One of the main reasons i dont want to switch is because i like iTunes so much.

How does their software compare?

[Echo_]

http://dapreview.net/e107_plugins/co...hp?content.259

[ipodphoto30]

it looks pretty nice. however, i still prefer ipod over creative zens.
if i were to have recieved it as a gift i'd take it. otherwise i'd invest my money in the ipod instead of a creative.

[TheJosher]

it looks pretty nice. however, i still prefer ipod over creative zens.
if i were to have recieved it as a gift i'd take it. otherwise i'd invest my money in the ipod instead of a creative.

Why? If you're going to say one way or another, at least tell why :P


Josh

[thedodgyguy]

Originally posted by Echo_
http://dapreview.net/e107_plugins/co...hp?content.259

Austin has missed a few key issues which leads me to believe there's a some "I really want this to be good" there despite his mandate to be impartial, but I don't feel like writing a magnum opus because I'm really lazy at structured write-ups. Where our opinions differ, no offense to his excellent write-ups but I always get the feeling that he tests in a sort of lab environment.


Which is why I put it this the format of a Q&A session. How does it compare? That's too a wide question in the context of how I want this thread to go. Be as specific as you like, but at least give me something reasonably limited to reply to.

[TheJosher]

Question: I know its nothing new with the Zen vision, but how is the slide thingy compared to the click wheel? Their "everyone knows the shortest point between two distances is a straight line" thing doesn't cut it for me. Yeah, it may be shorter.. but you'll have to lift your finger and start over again once you get to the top/bottom. I think.

Also, how do you like the interface? It looks sort of ugly to me (from pictures), but maybe its better on the player in real life.


Josh

[thedodgyguy]

The software is theoretically unlimited since it's an MTP player. Any MTP compliant loading program should work with it. And for me, the big attraction point of the Zen Vision (and in fact any higher-capacity Creative at the moment) is that I can use it with Napster. I've been really wanting to check this service out with DAPs in detail, but my first MTP player was a disaster (iRiver H10).


What it ships with is the Zen Explorer, which is basically a slightly more sophisticated version of drag & drop, with playlisting support. Supports drag & drop of videos, music and photos. Once again though, the ZV:M is an MTP device and not a UMS device, so it's not true drag & drop and full MTP support is only under Windows XP Service Pack 2.


You also get Mediasource, which is the Creative version of iTunes. It's quite a powerful piece of software which does many things the iPod doesn't do (direct MP3 encoding, live library updates, upsampling ripping, etc) but it's still too cluttered and somewhat unfriendly to use. You dont get the automation options that you do in iTunes for example, and the overall software is generally slightly less approachable.


But the excellent news is that like the iPod, you're not limited to what comes in the box and in this case, aftermarket provides a better option. I'm having excellent results with my favourite PC jukebox, j.River Media Center. The Zen Vision M works faultlessly with it, apart from album cover support which frankyl I'm not too worried about. Check out the demo version (it works with the iPod too) for an intro to the software. It powers my HTPC as well and I recommend it for the music power user. Once again the overall experience is not quite as slick or as automate-able as iTunes, but I'm not finding it as onerous with Media Center in the mix.

[thedodgyguy]

Originally posted by TheJosher
but how is the slide thingy compared to the click wheel?

Also, how do you like the interface?
Josh

The slide thingy purely in itself is perfectly OK. It has adjustable sensitivity and once you get used to it, navigating menus are not a problem. It's the way the whole thing is put together that's more of an issue.


To start with, the 4 buttons that surround the ZVM are actually one plastic moulding. This means the whole front half-panel moves as one. Which makes each button pretty stiff to push, and squidgy in feedback. The touchpad features a left-right clicker which allows you to fast forward / rewind and switch tracks, as well as move between modes in the music library. The touchpad itself requires a featherlight tap in order to 'click'.


So you've got big, hard to press squidgy buttons, regular iPod-style 'click' keys, and a touch panel all on one unit, and all of which have to be used while navigation the library. Then there's the placing of those big buttons. Take a look below at the positions your hand must adopt to press those buttons, and then hold your iPod and figure how far your thumb has to move in comparison.


End result: The ZV:M is a bit of an ergonomic nightmare in comparison to the iPod.

[thedodgyguy]

The touchpad is also a bit of an issue not only because of the variety of pressure you must use on the main controls unlike the same click press on the iPod, but also because it's possible in a commuting situation to be lightly jostled on a bus, train, etc and make a selection by accident all too easily. I was sitting down on a train and I made numerous false clicks as the train went up and down. When standing up on a bus/train, the chance of menu selection error increases.


The fonts are much larger than on the 5G, and are therefore should be easier to see... but they have adopted a slightly decorative font, and it's sometimes harder to make out than the smaller text on the iPod.


The ZV:M features the iPod-style menu, but adds to it by adding a further menu layer that pops up in each menu when you press the bottom right key.

So for example, you can be in the main menu and press the bottom right key. Another menu pops up overlaid on top of the menu with Configure Menu, Change Option Order, Reset to Default and Volume. If this was the iPod, you'd have to go into several layers of menu options to access those sub-options, and on the ZV:M the context sensitive menus accessed like that are implemented really well. This generally works better than the iPod (it's just pressing those buttons while holding the player that's a slight pain).


In terms of track playback / navigation, you get pretty much the same options with the side to side rocker built into the touchpad being used for track advance/rewind. However the ZV:M's seek is not as good as the iPod which as we all know allows you to scrub in the track. The Zen's implementation of that is much slower to use.


Overall, the real thing letting down the controls is the hardware implementation of the wildly diferent tactile feel that you must use to operate the ZV:M. This is a major issue IMO in comparison to the iPod, as you're going to be using those controls every day. The Menus are better, and the up/down movement as opposed to circular isn't on the whole a huge issue compared to the iPod.

[jwc110869]

We haven't heard your audio comparison of the two yet. I guess through the ue10's, since most of us use in-ear of some sort.........

[thedodgyguy]

Early days for that. Unequalised I would say that the two most interesting non-iPods I've looked at recently (X5 and ZV:M) exhibit a very similar core performance to the 5G iPod, and certainly the scale of change in sound between these three is nowhere near the change between the 4G and the 5G. I do at this point prefer the ZV:M though by a very small margin, because it seems to sound ever so slightly smoother than the X5 or the 5G. But these are very small margins.


The EQ is a bit of a problem, but perhaps not as problem-ridden as the iPod is from a feature point of view. Sonically I feel that the EQ'd sound 'fuzzifies' things a little more than the iPod (when the iPod isn't itself distorting ). But on the plus side it does offer one fully adjustable custom preset.

[mrdantownsend]

how's the software used with the Vision:M?

[Echo_]

can you add more to the screen quality

is it really that much better

also does it feel good in your hand or too thick?

what is going to be your daily dap?