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Topic: Illegal in Canada to copy music to an iPod (DAP)

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Old 08-23-2005, 02:11 AM
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Illegal in Canada to copy music to an iPod (DAP)

Okay, contacted CPCC about iPod Levy refund (by the way just visit www-apple-com/ca/ipodlevies)...and I got this quote:

"Unfortunately, the clear result of the Supreme Court's decision not to hear
the CPCC's appealis that copying recorded music onto an iPod is now
illegal
, unless the copying has been authorized by the copyright holders of
that music. The reality is that, because there is no levy on digital audio
recorders and they are not covered under the private copying provisions in
the Copyright Act, all the thousands of unauthorized tracks of music that
are being copied privately onto iPods are currently not legal, and those who
make them are infringing copyright laws. We consider this to be clearly not
a desirable or workable situation for either consumers or creators of
recorded music." - sreynolds@cpcc.ca (Shannon Reynolds) - August 22, 2005

An interesting take on the law...

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Old 08-23-2005, 02:19 AM
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WOW! So even if you own the CD or Album it's STILL illegal?






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Old 08-23-2005, 02:29 AM
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Um i get:
Quote:
Apple is pleased that the Supreme Court of Canada let stand a lower court ruling that blank media levies on iPods are invalid, and will shortly announce a claims process so customers can request a refund for the levies they paid.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by baggss
WOW! So even if you own the CD or Album it's STILL illegal?
And that's the country where a judge said he couldn't see the difference between copying music and going to the library to photocopy books?!!



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Old 08-23-2005, 03:51 AM
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Fair go on Canda, eh?

I have always been a subscriber of there being a difference between unethical illegal and ethical illegal. With putting songs onto your iPod obviously falling into the latter.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:55 AM
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Do they really want us to stop buying CDs?



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Old 08-23-2005, 11:58 AM
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Graham Henderson, President of CRIA (Canadian Recording Industry Assoc) has responded to this. In an article in the Globe at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ry/Technology/

"Mr. Henderson said the CRIA is not after the people who copy music for their own use, people he refers to as the “good guys.”

His association, he said, is really after the people who are profiting from massive file sharing and music piracy."

Also:

"The Toronto Star, August 9th contains an important letter to the editor from Graham Henderson, President of the Canadian Recording Industry Association. Responding to concern that the exculsion of the iPod from the private copying system would lead to liability for Canadians who copy their own CDs to their iPods, Henderson pledges on behalf of CRIA and its major member labels to refrain from taking action against such consumers, who he characterizes as the “good guys”. The full letter reads:

Recording Industry Won’t Target True Fans

Michael Geist has correctly drawn attention to the unintended consquence of last week’s Supreme Court of Canada ruling. It places people who legally acquire music and then copy it to their hard drives or portable devices in a legal grey zone. However, on behalf of the Canadian Recording Industry Association and its major label members, I can state that no action will be taken by CRIA against the “good guys.” People who legally acquire music are the artists’ best friends, and we do not intend to punish them. "

Still a grey area, but it gives some confidence that they won't be coming after us for copying our legitmately purchased CDs to our iPods.

And the case where the judge compared shared folders on a P2P as being the same as a photocopier in a library, has been appealed. Basically the first judge threw out CRIA's case against a number of filesharers, and the appeal set out the proof requirement to be a bona fide case against the sharers to be sufficient to pursue a lawsuit. There's an article about it here http://p2pnet.net/story/4905

John



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Old 08-23-2005, 03:37 PM
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Wow the canadian government has made it illegal.

Now what makes them think they can stop the downloading, especially with bit torrent?



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Old 08-23-2005, 07:57 PM
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I don't think they've made it illegal. It's just not technically legal. CRIA has committed that they won't go after people for this particular infringement.

Stop downloading? They can't. All they can hope for is more people start buying legitimately again. Maybe iTunes Subscription Service (I know, but I can dream).

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Old 08-23-2005, 09:59 PM
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They really don't understand us



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Old 08-23-2005, 10:03 PM
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Looks like i've broken enough of those laws to go to jail......



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Old 08-24-2005, 12:11 AM
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This situation also applies in Australia. Here you are infringing copywrite (of music) if:

1) You copy the cd
2) You change the format of the CD (ie: WAV -> MP3) and
3) You copy said tracks onto Ipod.

So technically here in Australia, you are breaching copyright three times when ripping tracks from a cd into Itunes and onto your ipod.

However, I'm of the opinion that purchasing a CD and then putting that CD onto my Ipod is Ok as it is in the spirit of the law (in that I'm not going to be playing both the cd and mp3 file at the same time, nor am I going to copy the MP3 track from my Ipod onto another computer).

Fortunately, the Australian powers that be are currently reviewing Australia's copyright laws.

Also, technically you are only allowed to copy 10% of a book or one journal article from an edition. Anything more than that is also breaching copyright.



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Old 09-15-2005, 10:58 PM
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Actually, this is rather amusing, and sounds like it may be a bit of a scare tactic on the part of the CRIA.

Keep in mind that I'm not a lawyer, but just somebody who has extensively studied copyright law... (so all the standard "this is not legal advice" disclaimers apply here).

At any rate, while I can see how this may be a legal grey area, Part VIII of the Canadian Copyright Act (specifically Section 80) expressly permits private copying of music onto an "audio recording medium" which the same section defines as "a recording medium, regardless of its material form, onto which a sound recording may be reproduced and that is of a kind ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose, excluding any prescribed kind of recording medium;"

Now, the fact the levies are no longer collected on the iPod (and other DAPs) does not mean that they are not considered "audio recording medium(s)" unless they are a "prescribed kind of recording medium." I do not believe that the Supreme Court decision either deliberately or automatically makes the iPod a "prescribed" recording medium.

In fact, I believe that the CRIA et al are trying to use the fact that Section 82 says that they are entitled to receive remuneration from everybody who manufacturs or imports a "blank audio recording medium" in or into Canada. I believe their logic is that since they are no longer receiving remuneration for iPods (and other DAPs), they must therefore not be blank audio recording mediums, and are therefore not covered under Section 80.

This is specious logic at best, since the definitions at the beginning of Part VIII clearly define an "audio recording medium" as anything that can record audio signals and is used by a consumer. Sounds to me like the iPod still qualifies, and the fact that levies are not being collected on it doesn't change the nature of the device.

Certainly there is room for some legal finagling here, but I don't expect that the CRIA would have much luck in trying to pursue copyright action against anybody continuing to copy songs to an iPod. To suggest that this ruling makes using your iPod illegal is an exaggeration at best.



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Old 09-17-2005, 11:27 AM
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Nice post there Jesse...Made a lot of sense.



Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
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Till she cry 'Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!'
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