iTunes 12 - missing folder and subfolders of many playlists

GO TO ADMIN PANEL > ADD-ONS AND INSTALL VERTIFORO SIDEBAR TO SEE FORUMS AND SIDEBAR

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
Ok, so I did my backups of the iPhone and iTunes, then updated iTunes 12 on Windows 7 PC, dreading the new changes. Surprisingly the install went smoothly and everything seemed fine, however I went to add some music to my iPhone and the playlists were not showing up for me to select. I then looked in the music section of iTunes 12, the playlists view, and I cannot find an entire folder, it's sub-folders, and the many many playlists that were contained within are simply not appearing. I have a habit of making periodic screenshots of various aspects of iTunes (view options, columns, preference pages, etc) including the lists of the playlists in the sidebar. I pulled up my old screenshots from iTunes 11 to verify that the folder is indeed missing. I also have individually saved many of my playlists within this major playlist folder to preserve custom play orders which were very important for me for these playlists

What annoys me most is that this major playlist folder contains my "desert island" playlists and subfolders. I searched for a song known to be contained within this folder, and when I right click on the song and choose "show in playlist", the playlists are not showing up there either.

I am tired and it's late and I will investigate further tomorrow if any other major playlists/folders are missing. All of the playlists contained within that folder and it's sub-folders were smart playlists; not understanding how so many would go missing....I wonder if it's based on the criteria of the smart playlists and iTunes 12 no longer recognizes those criteria - ugh!

This may be the last straw though. :( I may have to learn the ins and outs of media monkey after all....very sad, sigh. At this point I am scared/paranoid to hook the classic up to the PC lol, wonder if I sync-ed it if the same playlists will go poof on there as well.....

If anyone else has experienced this, please share, or if anyone has suggestions on what steps I should take, they are most welcome. I know it's early days and all....

Just figuring out what my I should do next..., do a clean install of iTunes 12 and do a restore, to see if the playlist folder/subfolders/playlists return, or find iTunes 11, do a restore, etc...
 
Last edited:

cjmnews

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
10,061
Points
63
Location
Arizona
Alright, I updated too. It looks a bit weird with the red icon. No Sidebar (CTRL-S) anymore. Need to alter the views using the buttons on the top. Or through the View Menu (Ctrl-B to show/hide).

Traditional users of iTunes will probably want to click on the Playlists button in the middle to see the sidebar and all their folders & playlists like before, and change the center section to show Songs to see the columns that we are typically used to.

Now that I handled the general users that will check out this post for the title, on to your problem.

iTunes just failed to convert your library from the 11 version to the 12 version. They make it fairly easy to try again.

1. Close iTunes
2. Using Windows Explorer, navigate to the iTunes folder
3. Send iTunes Library.itl to the Recycle Bin
4. Navigate to the Previous iTunes Libraries folder
5. Find the iTunes Library <Date>.itl with the latest date (yesterday or today)
6. Remove the date from iTunes Library <Date>.itl so that it is iTunes Library.itl
7. Copy the iTunes Library.itl file up to the iTunes folder.
8. Open iTunes, check your folders and playlists to see that they are all there.

You can also go back to the old version by:
1. Uninstalling iTunes 12
2. Installing iTunes 11.xxx The latest version 11. oldversion.com is a decent source.
3. Assuming you tried the steps above, redo steps 7 & 8. If you have not done those steps yet, do them all.
 

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
Thanks for the detailed reply. :)

Yeah not liking the red... I tried those instructions but that particular playlist folder does not want to show up.

Thanks for taking care of the custom view issues, I expect many that search will indeed end up here looking for the "sidebar" again.....So all of those people can disregard the following because it is likely to confuse the heck out of novice or "light" users.


From the C:\Users\Username\Music\iTunes\Previous iTunes Libraries folder, I tried two previous iTunes Library versions.
First: the iTunes Library from 10/17 (time stamp looked like it was something iTunes saved as part of the upgrade process, since it has a time stamp slightly previous to the iTunes Library.itl file that was in C:\Users\username\Music\iTunes\ folder
Second: the iTunes Library from July 7 - this was the date of the iTunes Library file immediately previous to the 10/17 one

Neither worked for me following the steps you've listed above.

So I don't know what the deal is, it seems upgrading a whole version from iTunes 11 to iTunes 12 had an effect on the previous iTunes Libraries that were in the iTunes folder as part of the upgrade/install process as well as the then current library?

Since I had made a backup of the entire iTunes folder previous to the upgrade to iTunes 12, I tried the iTunes Library file from that backup folder (the main iTunes Library.itl file, not a previous iTunes Library folder one), the time stamp on that one from 10/17 being about an hour before the one created after the iTunes 12 upgrade; same result, the playlist folder, subfolders, playlists all still missing, surprisingly! So that kind of contradicts my line of thinking in the previous paragraph as this file was never touched by iTunes 12.

As part of my iPhone backup process, that you helped me put together in this thread, though I had an iTunes Library file in my backups folder that was from September, I tried that one and my playlist folder showed up again, hurray! That was a backup copy I made previous to the iOS 8.02 iPhone 5 update.

I have no idea why that one worked and my latest backup did not.

I am curious to know that if I did a clean install of 12 and used the backup of iTunes that I created immediately previous to upgrade/install, if the playlist folder would have appeared... I may try that just for the heck of it to see what happens.

Thanks again for all your help. I wanted to get this all sorted before tomorrow's iOS update because I wanted to make my new backups before then.





For anyone wondering about my iPhone backup process, you can read that other thread I linked to above for its evolution and this has become my routine so that I can have incremental backups of my iPhone that would not be corrupted by the iTunes program itself since these manual backups sit outside the iTunes environment. I try to do this process at least once a month and always before an iOS or iTunes update so I can go back in case something has gone wrong. For backing up iTunes however I always backup the entire iTunes folder as well.

1. I open iTunes and connect the iPhone to the PC, then open the windows folder to manually make a copy of the pictures/videos folders. To save space on backups, I then unsync the music in iTunes to delete it off the phone, since that accounts for about 5 GB of my phone space (I did not want to spend unnecessary time and hard drive space backing up music I already have in iTunes and my PC hard drives... After I do my backup, I then resync the playlists I want on the iPhone.)
2. I then click the backup button. Disconnect the phone and close iTunes.
3. I make a copy of the latest folder in the location C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup and rename it to reflect the current time and date. (My "5dd..." folder). (This forces iTunes to "see" incremental backups when this process is repeated over time, otherwise you only have one backup).
4. I then make backup copies of the AppData Folders
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Apple Computer
I am not sure that the Local AppData folder is crucial, but I save it anyways.
5. The last step which has nothing to do with the iPhone really, but I do it anyways since I'm already backing up iTunes elements is that I make a copy of just the Library files from C:\Users\Username\Music\iTunes. (In other words, everything in that folder except the Album Artwork folder and the iTunes Media folder (and the sentinel file), this is because 99% of my iTunes music on my second hard drive so the iTunes Media folder is not important to me). Couldn't be happier right now that I do this last step everytime I backup the phone.
 
Last edited:

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
So I think my whole issue with my playlist folder missing has to do with iOS8. Because now with iTunes 12 (with my restored library) and iOS 8.1. I was having sync issues with the music, other and free space indicators in iTunes when the device was connected all appearing wrong. I restore from backup did not solve this issue. So I deleted the music on the iPhone itself, then sync-ed the phone with iTunes and all those usage indicators seem to be right again. However this morning when I went to sync music back to the iPhone I have noticed that one manually created playlist and the parent playist folder that I have posted about earlier have gone missing from iTunes (again, the songs are still in iTunes). Why it takes out the whole parent folder instead of the 2 playlist subfolders I had actually chosen playlists from to sync I don't know. This also explains why the September backup of my library restored the playlist folder, that was the one I made manually pre iOS8 upgrade. This never occurred in iOS 7, so I'm guessing this is an iOS issue, not an iTunes issue. So I'm gonna have to figure this out and restore my iTunes library again, and I guess just don't put music on the iPhone at all. Now I really regret not buying another iPod classic, as the one I have is the original 160gb one. I just figured at some point iTunes will discontinue support for the classic so I should get used to the touch or the phone for music. Frustrating.
 
Last edited:

cjmnews

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
10,061
Points
63
Location
Arizona
IOS can't affect your iTunes. Only iTunes, Windows or HW can impact your iTunes.

You need to see why that folder is missing.

My first thought is that maybe your hard drive is having issues. Have you checked your event log for hard drive errors? Event ID 7, a disk error, that says: "The device, \Device\Harddisk0\D, has a bad block." or something like it? You may need to repair the disk (Spin Rite) or get a new one and restore backup to the new one.

If you are not seeing errors, have you looked on the hard drive where the songs that should be in that playlist are supposed to reside to see if the songs remain behind? Maybe someone is accidentally deleting the folder with the delete key (Ctrl-Alt-Del, missing or having Ctrl-Alt not recognized). Maybe you need to re-enable all warnings and get a popup when an accidental delete occurs to confirm it.

I am having no issues with IOS 8 syncing or 8.1 syncing with an iPhone 5s and 6. Yes I have folders and playlists in folders.

As for discontinuing support for the Classic in iTunes, that would be unlikely as they still sell Nano's and they sync exactly the same way.
 

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
Thanks again for the help.

No hard drive issues/errors. I can always run my hard drive diagnostic programs to be sure, but my last Dell system diagnostic which tests both of my HDDS a few weeks ago was clean. The songs remain both in iTunes and on the hard drive where they are supposed to be. The newly created manual playlist created out of probably the only album I've added to iTunes in over a year that was not sitting in any playlist folder also went missing. This was the only different playlist I had added to the iPhone. Being a new addition to my hard drive the place on the hard drive would vastly differ than the physical sectors of all my other music.

No one else uses this PC. I had suspected that I may have accidentally hit the delete key myself in the past but I don't think that is what is happening b/c I know for sure it did not happen this time, and the outlying manual playlist I created is way down in the source folders, especially since I keep all my subfolders expanded. (I have tons of playlist folders with nested subfolders and smart playlists, it takes me 6 pages of screenshots to capture all of them).

I had reset both sync history and warnings as part of the iTunes 12 installation process b/c I wanted it to be "fresh" Though when you push those buttons now they just illuminate blue, and I hit OK, and I assume that the actions occurred but it seems weird that there is no confirmation alert.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

It just seems that Music Sync in iOS8 is acting in both directions but not in a consistent manner.

My attempt to delete Music off of the iPhone from the Settings, Manage Storage area, and then resyncing to iTunes seems to be the culprit. So I should not do this ever again. I only did it this time to try and clear up the syncing issues that would multiply every time I truned off Music sync via iTunes in an attempt to remove the music from the device. The capactiy indicators for other, free space, and music were all wonky and kept changing b/c that music syncing bug seems to be still present. This method of deleting music from the device itself is what seems to cure the sync for a lot of people and is often posted as a solution for that issue. But using this method pre-iOS8 did not result in missing playlists folders and playlists from iTunes.
 

cjmnews

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
10,061
Points
63
Location
Arizona
How are you deleting the songs off of the iPhone?

Do you accidentally delete the folder thinking it is the iPhone in manual management?

I have successfully sync'd, but have not tried the remove and replace option on an iPhone yet. I'll see if I can do that this evening.
 

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
Normally, I uncheck Sync Music when the iPhone is connected to iTunes via USB since this is what Apple's website indicates is the way you turn Music Sync off, click apply, then you then get a message that asks you 'Are you sure you do not want to sync music? All existing songs and playlists on the iPhone will be removed'

But what seems to be happening (and many others seem to have this issue), is that though it seems the music was deleted, it is not, either the free space decreases or "other" increases in a size that is consistent with the space the music took up. Some use third party programs to "clean up" the iPhone's drive, but I like to stay away from such programs. To solve that issue, with the iPhone disconnected from iTunes, I followed a solution that is posted over and over again and that is to go to General > Settings > Usage . Manage Storage and then delete the music from there. And then when the iPhone is connected to iTunes again, the capacity indicators seem to return to their correct amounts.

So what I think is happening is that when we do that, for whatever reason it removes the corresponding playlists in iTunes when it syncs. That sync, under iOS 8 is acting in a 2 way manner but not in any fashion that makes sense to me, why remove the playlist folders, not just the playlists, and leave the files alone in iTunes? I read the iPhone User Guide for iOS 8.1 and the relevant sections in iTunes 12 Help. The definition of "Sync" is contradicted in those documents. It is both defined as "to add" to the device but then it is also described as a two way process.

My normal method of putting music back onto the iPhone is via that Sync Music page, with the following option checked: selected playlists, albums, artists, and genres. I then select the playlists I want to have on the iPhone. On the main iPhone summary page, under options, I have only this box selected: sync only checked songs and videos, I do not have manually manage music and videos checked (I do not drag and drop to the iPhone).

I am used to the way music is synced with the iPod. Though I understand that you can edit and delete playists on the iPhone, I don't use it that way, using it like an iPod instead where you can't mess with playlists, orders, or files.

This evening I am going to create some entirely new smart playlists and playlist folders, sync them to the iPhone, then delete them via the manage storage method just to check if this is what is causing playlist folders and playlists to go missing in iTunes.
 
Last edited:

cjmnews

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
10,061
Points
63
Location
Arizona
I didn't get to experimenting last night. Too busy. Traveling today.

It sounds like we manage our iPhones in a similar manner. Maybe I can experiment tonight when I get home.
 

manchali

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
145
Points
16
Location
California
It's ok, I just appreciate the responses, that is more than enough. You have been so helpful in the past, it's really amazing. Sometimes posting here is like talking out loud and that alone helps me. I probably won't return to post for a while now, busy week/weekend ahead. Take care!

I was able to replicate the issue, created a parent playlist folder, put a regular playlist in it, added 2 playlist subfolders, with 2 smart playlists in them each. Repeated the process, and literally watched my playlists and playlist folders disappeared next time I synced music with iTunes (after deleting them from the iPhone).

So I ended up restoring to factory this time instead of just restoring a backup. This means I have a fresh copy of iOS 8.1 rather than an upgraded version. This freed up even more space on the iPhone. My first attempt to sync music was a fail. Clicking on Sync greys it out, it acts for a second like it's syncing, but if I click on the Music on the device in the source window, it remains empty. The Sync button stays grey until I uncheck/check sync music again. I unhooked the phone, reset it, Hooked it up again, tried again, nothing. That was with 6 playlists. I then tried only 2 and it finally did a successful sync. The good news is that everytime I checked and unchecked sync music the capacity bars did not start to multiply with phantom files. So for now I have music on the iPhone.
I do enjoy how much faster iTunes 12 is over previous versions, that's one good thing. But I will wait for more iOS updates before I start to trust the sync. Will avoid deleting music off the iPhone in any manner for now and will avoid changing up playlists or doing any music sync changes for now.

I have skimmed thru many pages of this thread at Apple Discussions. and I see that many people are having a wide variety of music sync issues since iOS 8 with many different devices (mine is iPhone 5). Many mention the phantom 'other' capacities, many have disappearing music, some say it's issues with music they own, not purchased from iTunes; some are using iCloud, some Music Match, a very wide variety of symptoms. And now that iOS 8.1 has come out, many continue to see the problem. Supposedly it's known by Apple according to that thread. I feel bad for the folks in that thread with the 128gb phones who are spending way more hours than me trying to get music on the phones.
 
Top