Permission Change Will Not "Stick"

[jumpsforjoy1]

I recently purchased a new HP and am running win 7, all of life was good until I allowed iTunes to update to 10.7.0.21. Since this update my iTunes has become nothing but misery for me.

I have a very large library of music over 20,000 songs and I use iCloud so my daughter at college has access to our music. I have all of my music on an external drive and have had this drive and used it successfully with iTunes for at least 5 yrs.

What I first noticed was that I could not change anything in iTunes with Get Info everything was grayed out. I did some research and found this was probably due to ownership. So I took the steps to claim ownership and life was good.

But the next time I was back on iTunes I had the same issue. Checked and nope I wasn't the owner so I changed it again thinking I just didn't hit either OK or apply. That was not the case, every time I check I am no longer the owner.

Next iTunes began to be unable to be "unable to locate files". I checked and those files are on my external hard drive but still "can not be located". I tried fixing this by downloading the songs and trying to drag and drop them into the correct folder. This did not work, I did not get an error code or anything it is just that nothing happened. The same with add folder or add file within iTunes.

It also appears that all of my files on my external are read only even the backup of my old c drive and documents I have stored there for safe keeping. Again I have changed them to be not read only and it goes through the motions and appears to have done what I ask but the next time I go into iTunes the everything behaves as though it is read only and I do not have the proper permission set.

Sorry if this is more of a windows thing than and iTunes thing but I am really at my wits end with all of this.

[Code Monkey]

What sometimes happens with Win 7 (and probably Vista) is the old file owner information becomes corrupted and cannot be removed normally. If you look on the details for security where it shows the group/users associated with the files you'll see someone named something akin to "$@#^1214345xd@#$^$%#". Files with this corrupted, phantom owner won't keep any security settings you apply. Every time I've changed computers under Win 7 some number of files/directories on my media hard drive suffer from this issue.

Fortunately, though tedious, the fix is simple: Copy the offending files to a new location, this makes a new copy of the files you are the undeniable owner of. Delete the old, offending files. Move/Copy your new copies into the original location.

[jumpsforjoy1]

Thank you so much!!!!! I honestly was being driven mad by this.

If I understand you correctly I just need to make a copy of everything in my iTunes folder on my external drive including the 21,628 music files I have and then delete the iTunes folder on the external and copy the new copy of iTunes folder back on to the external.

Guess I am going to be super happy I got the 1024G hard drive on my new HP!

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by jumpsforjoy1

If I understand you correctly I just need to make a copy of everything in my iTunes folder on my external drive including the 21,628 music files I have and then delete the iTunes folder on the external and copy the new copy of iTunes folder back on to the external.

That is the simplest method, although if you know which ones are giving you problems you can just replace the offending files with a copy->copy.

I've never hit this problem with any program except iTunes so I don't know if there's something broken in how iTunes writes file information, or if it's a problem in Windows 7 I've just not hit anywhere else. At any rate, it never ceased to amuse me that Windows can't override this corrupted owner info, but is nonetheless perfectly happy to let me copy and subsequently delete the very files it won't give me ownership for.

[jumpsforjoy1]

Thank you again for your help. I was able to do the copy and things seem to be working some what.

I have lost all of my playlists and although I only have 21,336 songs in total, iMatch/iCloud will not update because it says I am over the 25,000 song mark.

Have any idea how to fix either of these issues?
Thanks again, Brenda

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by jumpsforjoy1

Thank you again for your help. I was able to do the copy and things seem to be working some what.

I have lost all of my playlists and although I only have 21,336 songs in total, iMatch/iCloud will not update because it says I am over the 25,000 song mark.

Have any idea how to fix either of these issues?
Thanks again, Brenda

Nothing I suggested could do that because the music files have nothing to do with your playlists, nor iTunes' indices of those files. You should have made, at most, a 1:1 copy and replace of the music folder, and even if you had copied and replaced your .itl file (the library) file because it was inside the iTunes folder on the external, that's where your playlists were stored and they would still be there.

In a 1:1 copy replace none of those problems can occur. I'm not clear what you did. If you still have your original .itl file, make sure you get iTunes to use that (hold shift when you open iTunes and point it to the original .itl file and so long as you didn't change file paths, everything will be restored). If you managed to delete your original .itl file and no longer have it, your playlists are gone.

[jumpsforjoy1]

I did exactly that a 1:1 copy. I have kept all of the old itunes files as well as the new on my external. Tried copying the old library which is an xml file into the iTunes folder on my hard drive and it didn't change anything.

I do have all of the playlists on my iPod any way to get them off of there.

What really ####es me off is that I have paid for iCloud which SHOULD have a backup of all my music and playlists but because it thinks I have over 25000 songs it isn't behaving properly either. Why the HELL should I pay for iCloud if when I need it most it craps out!

Sorry not yelling at you, just needed to vent a little. You have been so helpful and I am hoping with a little more of your expertise I might at least solve the playlist issue.
Thanks, Brenda

[Code Monkey]

Well, here's the rub:

The file "iTunes library.itl" IS where playlists are stored. It is also where ratings, and any non-tag based information is stored.

If after you did the copy->delete->replace operation you opened iTunes and it automatically had all your music (minus whatever files were evidently not in your iTunes directory) already there, complete with ratings, etc., your playlists would have been there. If you actually had to tell iTunes where the files were, i.e. you opened up to an empty library, what happened was iTunes defaulted back to an empty .itl file at the default location (usually C:\...\My Music\iTunes\), and the trick is to get it back to using your already filled one via the SHIFT-Launch dialog.

So, was it scenario one where playlists went missing but the rest of the library was otherwise intact (aka unknown glitch), or scenario two where you've inadvertently started using a second copy of the library file?

iTunes is relatively unique in that it uses such a complex database that is completely agnostic of the host machine. I am still using the "same" iTunes library file I started in 2003, but the media library has been on I don't know how many hard drives and transferred computers no fewer than 8 different times and I've never lost anything in the process because so long as I put the media directory in the same path and I put the .itl file in the default location, the library opens up on a different computer as though nothing has changed.

So, before suggesting products like CopyTrans that can pull playlists off your iPod, let's figure out why they disappeared, because if you were opening the "same" "iTunes library.itl" file after the replacement as before there is no reason why playlists should have gone missing (or even media files you had added to iTunes' database but never added to the directory itself). It really sounds like you somehow switched .itl files in the process somehow, which should be relatively easy to correct.

[jumpsforjoy1]

Sounds like a plan. Below are the steps I took.

1) I went to my hard drive and deleted the iTunes folder on it

2) Went to my external drive and did a copy of the entire iTunes folder to my hard drive

3) After copy was finished, went to external hard drive renamed the iTunes folder Old iTunes.

4) Copy iTunes folder from hard drive to external drive

5) When copy was finished launched iTunes and checked that iTunes was looking for my music on the external, it was.

6) Changed ownership on the Itunes files

7) Changed files so they were no longer "Read Only"

8) Checked files to see that I could makes changes to them

Hope this helps. Thanks, Brenda

[Code Monkey]

Are you sure the active "iTunes library.itl" file wasn't the one on the main hard drive you started off by deleting?

You could, hypothetically, have iTunes, the program, installed to your C:\ drive, the .itl file on another hard drive F:\, and the media stored across a dozen other hard drives, and you'd never know from just using iTunes.

Do a search for all files named "*.itl" and see what you find on your various hard drives and recycle bin. The only thing that makes sense is that somehow in the process you wound up using a different copy of the library file. If there are no other .itl files hiding out there, I'd recommend using something like CopyTrans to pull your playlists off your iPod. Those missing files, I'd do another computer search, odds are those are just in directories other than your iTunes folder, but if they are in your iTunes folder it would fit the scenario of an older, playlist-less copy getting used upon the switch.

[jumpsforjoy1]

WHOOT!!!! CopyTrans has gotten my playlists back! I am one very happy girl!

I still have some questions about how to "fix" my iCloud. Do you have any knowledge of iCloud or should I start another thread?

Thank you so much for your help! Brenda

[jumpsforjoy1]

I was wondering if you had ever used iCloner by the same folks as CopyTrans. the reason I am asking is because when I hooked up my iPod to do a sync it once again wants to delete everything and re-download all of my music which I do understand is because of the copy I did. I am feeling a bit skittish about letting iTunes do that because I am afraid of losing my playlists again and then not having them to copy from my iPod.

iCloner is suppose to backup your iPod and I was wondering if it works and is fairly easy to use.
Thanks, Brenda

[Code Monkey]

Never used it, but, just for the record, you definitely replaced the .itl file with a new copy, and if you had found the original copy you wouldn't be going through any of this. You can pull the .itl file off of a Win2000 machine to a thumb drive with your media on a external hard drive, get on an airplane, travel to a foreign land, find somebody running Win 8 on their lap top at a coffee shop, hook up your external, assign it the same drive letter as it was on your computer, shift-open their copy of iTunes telling it to use the .itl file on the thumb drive you put in their USB port, and then sync *your* iPod to *your* library, unplug everything, get on another plane, fly to another foreign land, find another kind stranger in a coffee shop with a Win 7 lap top and repeat the process. Your iPod is tied to an .itl file, NOT a computer (oddly, DRM authorization is tied to the computer AND iPod, but that's another issue )

So, if you have looked for the original .itl file, you haven't mentioned it, and I only keep bringing it up because that should have never been touched and replacing the new one with the original (or copy thereof) would get you right back to where you were before these secondary problems began.

EDIT: I expect this is where your problems with iTunes Match arise from as well. iTunes Match will match the same song 99 times if you keep on adding it to your library (and counting each one against your song limit). The operation I suggested is invisible to iTunes, iCloud, etc., everything would have worked exactly as before only the permissions issues would have gone bye-bye. By starting over with a different .itl file, you now have all "new" copies of the music and so iTunes Match isn't going to work because you have everything already matched plus all these pseudo-new files it would have to match as well.

[jumpsforjoy1]

I believe you must be correct that the .itl file somehow got deleted and since I haven't any computer genies in my home I must have done it but for the life of me I don't know know how which is pretty scary because I just could do it again. Guess no more sorting computer problems out while drinking wine

I did do a search for the file and came up with nothing which is why I used CopyTrans.

Funny thing is that every time I open up iTunes I have yet another issue. Tonight it was that I couldn't import CDs. Even the very same CD I imported this afternoon. I googled the issue and it was solved by a restart but what the HELL has happened to iTunes that it has become so finicky. If I didn't know better I would say Apple has hired a bunch of folks from Microsoft! LOL

Yeah from what I have read iCloud is complaining because it has uploaded stuff multiple times. I have read about some fixes but none of them include the external drive component. But maybe I will get brave and give one of the solutions a go. I am not overly impressed with iCloud but it allows my daughter who is at college and I to share music easily. We are always on the look out for new music/bands to enjoy.

Again thank you for all of your help, Brenda