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Topic: Folders and Sync

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Old 11-25-2010, 11:53 AM
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Folders and Sync

New user here with a iPod Touch 4 (bank promo gift).

How do I create folders to put my music into ? All I see is a thing called a 'play list' which I'm guessing is just as it says, 'cause I can't drag & drop file into them.

Well, I don't understand. I don't want to create 'lists' I just want to play what ever songs are in a folder. My folders. Where I put them. Can such a simple thing not be done ? I don't want one giant list of audio files. And then be forced to make 'lists' as I've already organized them on my PC the way I want.

Movies: I've converted a few to MP4 and dragged them to the Library:Movies iTunes list on the left side. But sometimes they show up in the iPod, sometimes not. Sometimes a new one will show up and then go away after the next sync. Crazy !

Why do I have to 'Sync' ? Can't I just drag & drop between PC & iPod and have it store what & were I want ?

My 5 year old China no name video / music player (with camera & voice recorder) can do all of the above.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:42 PM
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Oh, forgot to add: How do I get the pics & videos made by the camera off it ? Can't see any in iTunes.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:58 PM
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You must use iTunes to sync content to your 4G iPod touch. It is the only program that can sync audio, video, photo, and app content to your device. You cannot just drag-and-drop files, those days are long dead even for companies that once proclaimed it as a necessary feature back in 2002 and 2003.

You don't work with folders on your iPod either. You have your main library that you sync to your iPod. Then you view content by album, artist, genre, etc. So any custom folder setup that you currently have will not be carried over to the iPod when you sync the content. This is due to both iTunes and iPods relying on track tag information instead of the archaic file tree system.

You need to check your movie syncing setup. It sounds like iTunes is setup to sync only new movies. You can manually select the movies that you want to sync over.

I hate to be rude but maybe you would be better off with your 5 year old no-name player (I am sorry, I just don't like those "my blah blah 6 year old player does what I want, why can't the iPod!!!" type comments). I understand your frustration but moving to a new environment requires that you adopt a new system and stop using something that hasn't been in place for the last 4 years. Since the very beginning, iPods were designed to work with iTunes. You had the hardware and software marriage while other players were just focusing on the hardware and letting others (such as Microsoft or MusicMatch) worry about the software end. Apple's setup has now been carried over to other companies including Microsoft, Sony, and Creative.

Photos and videos taken with the iPod are directly copied off of it as if the iPod were a digital camera, you do not go through iTunes to do this. Plug your iPod in, go to My Computer, you should see the drive there, open it, and you will find the photos and videos a few folders deep.

Edit: iPods and iTunes don't always work for everyone, that is why I made my statement. It wasn't to be rude or belittle you but, based on your syncing preferences, it might be better if you stick with older technology. As I said, almost all new players (at least the best ones) have adopted the whole software+hardware setup. SanDisk is the only one still pushing the old drag-and-drop system. Even Creative and Archos suggest using software on the PC side of things for syncing content.



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Old 11-25-2010, 01:50 PM
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You misunderstand. I have not much against using iTunes (except it so darn slow and too many hidden levels of options / menus here and there) and my drag/drop is referencing iTunes, not hard drive emulation.

All I want is to put files in a structure that I define. Not what it thinks I want. Not by name, not by album, artist or whatever it dreams up. Me. The USER !!!! Me the $$$$ giver.

Photos: No, no extra drive letter shows up. I did find an option to Sync Photos (in Devices: my_Ipod: the window there has a menu, the Photo menu. But that does nothing. Zero (0) items sync'd and zero items in the folder it 'sync' to. I guess the pics will forever be only be on the iPod. What a waste.

Can anybody tell me how to get them off ?????? Other than emailing them one at a time ??????

BTW. I don't have a 'library' as you mention. I guess I don't understand the concept of a library on a iPod, as I don't have one on my computer. I have a few MP3 files & CD's that I somehow got onto the iPod. Again, so many levels of menu's and options here and there, just to do simple things.

"archaic file tree system." Ha Ha Ha. This is how people keep track of everything else in their life.

"Then you view content by album, artist, genre, etc" Yeah. In one big long list in one window. My goodness, if that's not old school.

Yeah. Guess I'll go back to my 5 year old device for audio. Since I can't even get pics off this one, I'll just use it for the apps only. Guess Mr. Jobs wins again. Glad I didn't pay much (just tax) for it.

And since I'm p*** & moaning, why oh why, after pressing the Power / Home button, still have to 'Slide to Unlock' to get it functional ? I even have AutoLock off and it still makes me waste motions. Didn't have to do this on Newton or any other device in the universe that I've owned.
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:35 PM
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Just an update on the photo transfer.

I found that I had previously disabled the Ipod Camera in Device Manager as every time I connected it, a popup would ask to run a program.

After finding an Apple tech. note, I can disable this popup. Now I can use MS Scanner and Camera Wizard to transfer the phone / video files.

But wait, after about 755 files (out of the 800 on the ipod) , it or the ipod gets funky as all files after that are zero length. When I access the device(by ipod name) in Explorer, it shows the file sizes. Yet when I drag&drop (or copy/paste) just only one file, again it shows up in the new location as zero bytes.

Even after transferring some, when trying to delete them it just hangs.

In search of solutions I've tried WIALoaderPortable but it doesn't recognize the ipod camera. XnView tries to connect but gives up and no files are transferred. I'll try some digital camera software that does WIA.

I will keep looking for a WIA file transfer. Too bad Apple iTunes, the do all that does all (as some would say) , can't transfer it's own devices pictures.

I must find a solution soon as my daughter will be getting a ipod for her birthday in 2 weeks and she will be taking MANY THOUSANDS of pictures with it and will want to transfer them.

BTW, lest people think I'm just an Apple basher, no, I bash every sucky product. And I've been a Apple user since Apple II, then Mac 128, many 68K cpu's, PPC's, Newton (was a registered developer) , iMac, etc and many others.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:43 PM
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All I want is to put files in a structure that I define. Not what it thinks I want. Not by name, not by album, artist or whatever it dreams up. Me. The USER !!!! Me the $$$$ giver.
That is not going to happen. As I said, iPods don't use specific file structures but rather rely on the track tag information for displaying them and playing them back. They have always been this way and most competitors are using this setup as well. You can easily create playlists for the specific content you want. It takes all of 15 seconds to setup playlists in iTunes. You can also make smart playlists that update automatically.

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BTW. I don't have a 'library' as you mention. I guess I don't understand the concept of a library on a iPod, as I don't have one on my computer. I have a few MP3 files & CD's that I somehow got onto the iPod. Again, so many levels of menu's and options here and there, just to do simple things.
Your computer houses all of your audio and video files. You tell iTunes where those are stored and that will become your iTunes library. You can view content multiple ways by doing this and create your own playlists in seconds. You then plug your iPod into your computer and iTunes can automatically copy that content over or you can manually manage it by dragging and dropping the content (through iTunes, Windows Explorer is not used) to the iPod. This type of setup is vital to syncing content to your iPod. You can drag-and-drop files into iTunes using Windows Explorer. Again, content will be organized by track ID. The older file tree system is not used with iTunes (in terms of displaying content) or iPods.

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"archaic file tree system." Ha Ha Ha. This is how people keep track of everything else in their life.
It is archaic when it comes to viewing and syncing content in software and on a portable player. Nobody uses that type of setup for their portable players. Even SanDisk, a company that pushes the whole drag-and-drop setup through Windows Explorer, relies on track tag information for displaying songs on their players.

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"Then you view content by album, artist, genre, etc" Yeah. In one big long list in one window. My goodness, if that's not old school.
Playlists solve that and they don't take a rocket scientist to setup. I guess I have a hard time understanding what the big deal is. You will eventually have to adopt this type of setup whether you go with Apple or not. It is vastly superior to the ways of old (which is why everyone has adopted it) and things are really simple. A "registered" Newton developer should have no issues getting up and running.

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And since I'm p*** & moaning, why oh why, after pressing the Power / Home button, still have to 'Slide to Unlock' to get it functional ? I even have AutoLock off and it still makes me waste motions. Didn't have to do this on Newton or any other device in the universe that I've owned.
The Slide To Unlock page is there to prevent accidental usage. For example, you can have the iPod in your pocket and the home button gets pressed. The iPod will go to the Slide To Unlock page and then turn the display off after a few seconds of inactivity. If that wasn't there, the battery would be drained as the display would be on sitting there just looking at all the icons. Same thing if you put the iPod in a bag. Slide To Unlock is something that is used (in some way, shape, or form) with all smartphone operating systems (WebOS, Symbian^3, iOS, and Android). It prevents accidental usage (including pocket dialing) and won't drain the player's battery. Everyone lashed out against Apple when implementing it with the first iPhone and iPod touch. Now everyone uses a lock screen for touch screen devices.



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Old 11-26-2010, 12:45 PM
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Well, it takes certainly longer than 15 seconds. I've wasted 30 minutes screwing around finding out how to make playlists and PL folders and moving handles of files between everyplace.

I drag&drop a file from Explorer to Library:Music and then have to scroll down a long list of everything to find it to select it again. It's not named the same as it was before. After I find it, then I can select it to D&D it into a playlist.

So now I have made 5 playlists. I try to create a PlayList Folder. OK, but now I cannot D&D playlists into the new playlist folder. I have to now make a new playlist inside this playlist folder and then go back to either the big long list of files in Library:Music and D&D them or do the same from a playlist. Cripes ! What's with that ? That's suppose to be simple & intuitive ?

Now let me say this. I've got exactly 4 CD's. I'm no music buff so I don't see how people with 500 CD's actually organize them in iTunes so I presume that they just let it work the way it does.

Slide to unlock: I don't have a Smartphone nor ever used one. My Moto L6 phone has exposed keys, but no S-T-U. Never drained it's battery by accident. I can't fathom how the home button can be hit since it's not raised but rather a crater and even if so then it would turn off after 5 minutes anyway for AutoLock. But here's the real gripe: Let me decide if I want this or not. Heck, it even turns off when I have it docked.

So let's get back to the biggest problem: How to get the 800+ pictures off the ipod and on to the computer. Any help there ?
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:14 PM
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So now I have made 5 playlists. I try to create a PlayList Folder. OK, but now I cannot D&D playlists into the new playlist folder. I have to now make a new playlist inside this playlist folder and then go back to either the big long list of files in Library:Music and D&D them or do the same from a playlist. Cripes ! What's with that ? That's suppose to be simple & intuitive ?
Your problems are classic PEBCAK, full stop.

You can move playlists in and out of playlist folders, you can duplicate them, edit them, export them, import them. ANYTHING you can do with file-tree navigation you can do via playlists and playlist folders, only you can do about eleventy billion more things while you're at it, and they're not anywhere close to as difficult as you want to imply.

There is as much reason to be saying the new-to-you playlist system doesn't work as well as your *familiar* file navigation system as there is to claim a car or train isn't an improvement on a horse drawn wagon for getting around. I'm sure the Amish are plenty happy with their buggies in 2010, I just know I have no desire to try and figure out how to navigate *my* life using such a system. Similarly, I want to use a horse and buggy no more than I want to try and figure out how I'd be able to seamlessly manage more than 200GB of media, more than 30,000 files since 2004 with devices that have never held more than a fraction of my total media collection with such a primitive, limited system as file tree navigation.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:33 PM
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I guess I still don't understand what the problem is. First, as I keep saying, iTunes goes off of track tag information and not file names. You need to make sure all of your files have accurate track tags or they won't show up correctly in iTunes. This is not the fault of the program but the end-user.

Now, just for ####s and giggles, I decided to create a playlist folder and mess around with that feature. I created a new folder (File, new Playlist Folder, type in a name) in 2 seconds. I then took other playlists and was able to drag-and-drop them into the folder without any issues. 3 seconds have gone by and I now have 12 playlists all sitting in a playlist folder. I can go to my main library and drag-and-drop content to any of those playlists without issues as well. So I am not quite sure what is going on with your end. I can drag-and-drop content into the playlist folder, playlists in those folders, and to my iPod from those playlists in the folders. Given you lack of experience with this (hey, we were all new at some point) and the underwhelming amount of posts dealing with this topic (ie this one and a few others from 2003), I would say that the problem lies with the end user.

I guess us people with more than 500 albums just don't know what we are doing. Its not like system hasn't worked for me for the past 7 years. Nope, I wish I could go back to the ways of old when I had an Archos player. Those were the days. I could just manually organize my 1200 files (at the time) by creating multiple folders and sub-folders. Screw having a program automatically organize content, I want to spend hours on end setting up folders.



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Old 11-28-2010, 12:12 PM
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Yeah, there's a problem. A problem when using this software is not intuitive and must be used in a certain way. And I'm not the only one. So I asked my son, age 14 how to do this as he's had an Ipod for 3 years. He can't figure out play lists on iTunes, he says it's easier to do them on the iPod.

My wife fired up iTunes for the first time ( I wasn't there) and has the same problem as I, even more so as she 1) copied tracks from a CD to Library:Music, 2) Made a play list, 3) D&D from Library:Music to the playlist, 4) deleted the files from Library:Music and wondered why they disappeared from the playlist. BTW, she has an IQ of 155.

So back to by problem. I do File: New Playlist Folder. Fine. One appears under the left side PLAYLISTS. I now select DEVICES:my_ipod_name: a_playlist_i_made. And try to drop it on the playlist folder I just made. Nope. Cannot be done. Circle with slash. End of story. So however you're doing it, it's not intuitive.

So it's my fault that some audio files don't have tags ? Oh my ! PEBCAK ? oh yes, and perhaps the programmers and documentation writers too as however they suppose things are to work are not 100% when real world users try to do things. I am much aware of this being a writer of both commercial and custom programs and the documentation and doing the user training.

So do we want to trade insults here or solve the problem ???? I'm up to both if you'd like.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:09 PM
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Yeah, there's a problem. A problem when using this software is not intuitive and must be used in a certain way.
You realize that accounts for 100% of software, right? Your repeated histrionics about how *you* can't figure out iTunes or iPods isn't making you any more sympathetic.

Quote:
And I'm not the only one. So I asked my son, age 14 how to do this as he's had an Ipod for 3 years. He can't figure out play lists on iTunes, he says it's easier to do them on the iPod.

My wife fired up iTunes for the first time ( I wasn't there) and has the same problem as I, even more so as she 1) copied tracks from a CD to Library:Music, 2) Made a play list, 3) D&D from Library:Music to the playlist, 4) deleted the files from Library:Music and wondered why they disappeared from the playlist. BTW, she has an IQ of 155.
So your entire family is technologically challenged, how does this become our problem? Apple didn't capture 70% of the media player market consistently for the majority of the past decade while requiring iTunes to use their devices because the the overwhelming majority of people find the combo too difficult to use.

Quote:
So back to by problem. I do File: New Playlist Folder. Fine. One appears under the left side PLAYLISTS. I now select DEVICES:my_ipod_name: a_playlist_i_made. And try to drop it on the playlist folder I just made. Nope. Cannot be done. Circle with slash. End of story. So however you're doing it, it's not intuitive.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, are you really this obtuse? If you want to drag and drop to you iPod, you set it to manual management. Not hard to find this out, and it is in the documentation. This is of course a stupid thing to do without a good reason, but it sounds like what would make you happiest regardless of what other problem it will cause for you down the road.

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So it's my fault that some audio files don't have tags ?
Yes, it is your fault. You put the files on your computer, you haven't tagged them, case closed.

Quote:
Oh my ! PEBCAK ? oh yes, and perhaps the programmers and documentation writers too as however they suppose things are to work are not 100% when real world users try to do things. I am much aware of this being a writer of both commercial and custom programs and the documentation and doing the user training.
I pretty much assume you for a troll at this point, because iTunes is designed to be used from everyone from a trained chimp to a power user who likes to control pretty much everything, it can even be controlled via complex scripts externally if that's your thing, so how is it you can't figure out things most users figure out on their own if you're so brilliant?

Quote:
So do we want to trade insults here or solve the problem ???? I'm up to both if you'd like.
You can't insult those who do such a good job of doing it to themselves with posts like yours.

I doubt very much I can help you, because you don't want help, you want your iPod to function like a cassette player or whatever file-tree based player you had prior to buying an iPod. iPods don't function like that, never have, never will.

In short, here's how they work, if you grokk and accept this paradigm, they suddenly become the simplest of players out there, if you continue to refuse to accept their operational paradigm, you rant and rave like you have done throughout this thread and look rather foolish:

- iTunes is primarily a media and media player management program.

- You have a set of media files that are indexed by the software program, iTunes. These files exist on a hard drive of your computer. You are not to move, rename, delete, nor otherwise mess with these files outside of iTunes. If you do without knowing what you're doing, iTunes, and, by extension, your iPod will stop functioning properly.

- Your iPod is NOT a stand alone device. It is a player for your iTunes library and functions as an extension of your iTunes library. This cannot be emphasized enough. People who fight with iTunes and their iPods do so largely because they don't accept this premise and try to treat their iPod like a separate device, it is not.

- You set up your iPod (or iPods) to sync to either all or some subset of your iTunes library. You can make this as simple or as complicated as you want. You can d&d, you can simply have the iPod be a mirror of your iTunes library, you can set up a combination of d&d for some media types and use full syncing for other types, you can use rules based smartlists to automatically rotate through a much larger library, you can set it up however you want but, first, you have to stop being a stubborn jackass and assuming you're so brilliant and technologically savvy, because clearly you are not.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:40 PM
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I can't really add anything to what was already said except that flashing an IQ number really has no place here. Who cares if someone has an IQ of 155 or 85? It obviously has no reflection on their ability to use technology. My grandmother did not graduate high school, she is now in her mid-70's, and she has a 4G iPod nano that she syncs content to and everything all from her desktop. She then plugs it directly into the stereo system in their truck and play content off of it without issues. So anyone can master this if she can.

Bickering, trying to insult others (which started on your end), and acting like iTunes and iPods are ######ed really isn't going to help you. There are literally thousands of visual guides out there to get you up and running. ANYONE would be able to find them by conducting a 2 second Google search. Yes, I admit that the iTunes+iPod world is different when compared with the archaic way of managing and syncing media content (I am sorry but a system that has been in place since 1995 might as well be 1000 years old in "computer years") but you must adopt it if you want to use an iPod. Period. Don't want to adopt this way of managing and syncing media? Stick with your el cheapo no-name Chinese player and stay with it for years to come. You will have to keep using that if you don't want to adopt the whole Software+Hardware setup that was started with Apple and is now used by almost every big name portable media manufacturer out there.



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Old 11-28-2010, 03:26 PM
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For the record, Creative started the whole software + hardware thing. Apple was just the first to get it right. Which is kind of the funny thing about the thread: the basics of managing an iPod with iTunes hasn't changed since 2001, it's only gotten more straight forward since iTunes 9.X with the addition of so many sync controls. Relatedly, it wasn't until 2004 when Apple finally ported iTunes to Windows that the iPod took off because the very thing the OP claims is so horrid and complicated is the very thing that underpins the success of the i-device family.

EDIT: I'm also quite certain there's some sort of trolling going on here. After I posted my earlier post I saw that the OP chimed in on a thread on video conversion claiming to have a nano and using Handbrake for putting videos on it. Unless there's a thread similar to this one in the nano forum I missed the professed confusion and outrage is BS since it's no different managing a nano than a touch.

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Old 11-28-2010, 03:49 PM
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I've got a feeling you guys are overthinking this ;-) Your wife's Steps 1-3 were spot-on, but when she deleted the tracks from Library:Music, she deleted iTunes' master reference for the tracks, and by necessity those tracks were also deleted from the playlist she set up. In the iTunes world, your Libraries -- Music, Movies, Podcasts, etc. -- represent your media collection (the actual files). Playlist items are simply pointers to the tracks in your Libraries; when you remove a track from a Library (the master "database," if you will) all playlist references to that track are also removed. As a rough analogy, consider a desktop shortcut to a file buried deep in your Documents folder. If you delete the actual file, the shortcut becomes worthless, since the thing to which it refers no longer exists. Make sense?

In answer to your original question (How do I create folders to put my music into ?), you don't ;-) You can create "playlist folders" in iTunes, and these can be used to store groups of playlists. But there is no way to create a "folder" that holds raw music tracks. And you're gonna want to know why....the short, patronizing answer is that doing it your way inevitably leads to problems, both in iTunes and on iPods. Ultimately, the iTunes method of maintaining its own index of all your files offers much richer results than any file system can deliver; this is especially true when you've accumulated (tens of) thousands of tracks. Post again when you've cooled off for a comprehensive answer.

So, instead of "folders," think "playlists." Add your music to iTunes, then use any of the various display modes and sorting options to build playlists to your taste. Or use smart playlists to automate lottsa drudgery. (For instance, a smart playlist lets you gather up all your '60s tracks marked as Rock or Pop which haven't been played in 3 months, excluding anything by The Beatles, with just a handful of clicks. Or, all tracks composed by Stravinsky. Or all your Jean-Luc Ponty tracks that are rated 3 stars or better. Etc.)

For movies, you must make sure the files have been encoded at a level that the iPod's processor can keep up with. The best ways to do this are to either use a standalone application like HandBrake (which provides handy presets for tailoring movie files to iPods) or just select the movies in iTunes and then use the iTunes Advanced menu to "Create iPod or iPhone version." Having movies "sync off" the iPod after one viewing is the result of your Sync settings. With the iPod connected to iTunes, click on the iPod's icon in the Devices section of the leftmost column; the main part of the iTunes window will display tabs for all your sync settings. Click on the Movies tab and adjust to taste.....

Just a note -- if you want folks to respect your umbrage at how iTunes/iPod does things (Me. The USER !!!! Me the $$$$ giver.) it's p'bly best to not introduce yourself with a line like, "New user here with a iPod Touch 4 (bank promo gift)." <g>
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:58 AM
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For the record, Creative started the whole software + hardware thing.
True. They were the ones to first intorduce this type of setup. The only issue is that their 6GB player would go for 4 hours on a single charge and it was bigger than a Sony Discman (all while using USB1.1). Their software was also clunky at best. I think I could actually take things back even further with the Rio 500 (in 1999) where Diamond Rio made PC software specifically designed to sync with their players. They also left the hardware open to other programs such as Windows Media Player and MusicMatch though.

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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
EDIT: I'm also quite certain there's some sort of trolling going on here. After I posted my earlier post I saw that the OP chimed in on a thread on video conversion claiming to have a nano and using Handbrake for putting videos on it. Unless there's a thread similar to this one in the nano forum I missed the professed confusion and outrage is BS since it's no different managing a nano than a touch.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are trolling. Therer are hints that they are a troll all throughout their posts. First they have to mention of how much they don't like iTunes and how hard it is to use (which goes against the common view). Second they bring up that they used Apple products and were once a "developer" for the Newton (that could also be used in place of the "I work in the IT department" line). Third, they try to insult others. Fourth, they bring in IQ numbers for no reason trying to show how smart they (or someone else they know) are. Another common sign of a troll is that they complain about something that was "free." They also mention just how great their older player is ("my Chinese/Zune/Sansa/Zen is better than this!") when compared against this modern iPod thing. Lastly, they use the "I know other people who can't use it" gag. There at least 7 signs that they are a troll just in this thread. There are a few others too that I am not even going to mention.

So yeah, I think you are right. This person is a complete troll.



64GB iPhone 5 | 64GB iPad mini | AppleTV 2 (2012) | AppleTV 2 (2010) | 4GB 3G iPod shuffle | 2012 15" MacBook Pro, 1TB SSHD, 16GB DDR3 1600 MHz, OS X 10.8.4 Mountain Lion | Apple Lossless | iTunes AAC -Q 68 | iTunes 11.1 | Library size = 1.78TB | Legacy iPods: 3G 40GB, 4G 40GB, 5G 60GB, 160GB iPod classic (2009)

Last edited by kornchild2002; 11-29-2010 at 04:31 PM.
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