New Nano won't charge with non-licensed products

[gaukrg]

So, just like apple did with video out last time around on the nano/classic and required there to be an authentication chip for video out, now they aren't going to allow you to "charge' your ipod with non-licensed products, like my new 4th generation Nano and it obviously charges with the apple USB cable and it did charge with a Belkin Ipod cable that was power only (i understand that Belkin works closely with Apple on products).. but then I had a real cheap knock off ipod charger that worked on my 3rd generation Nano, but when i plugged it into my 4th generation Nano, it said, this ipod won't charge with this accessory, so it knew the cord was there and could provide power but is saying, sorry, not a licensed plug...

[Code Monkey]

It's NOT a matter of licensing. Apple has decided to save a few cents per unit to do away with the 12V to 5V converter from the firewire charging pin that used to be in all iPods. IF an accessory manufacture uses the 5V pin like Apple has been urging them to do so since the 5G shipped (that's 2005), there is no problem regardless of licensed status.

I agree, it's a bit lousy of Apple to leave people high and dry with previously functioning accessories when the internal component to keep a pin for a proprietary connector they themselves designed is so cheap and small, but at least place the blame where it belongs: Apple's cheapness/greed versus some whacked conspiracy regarding licensing and accessories. From their perspective, if Apple can sell as many non-firewire pin charging iPods this year as it did last year, they'll net about six million more in profits.

[gaukrg]

oh, ok, thanks, good info...

[jasoncordelle]

Personally i think the idea of whacked out conspiracy theories is far cooler.

[bar]

Originally Posted by jasoncordelle

Personally i think the idea of whacked out conspiracy theories is far cooler.

Lol!
That's too funny!
I have a fairly expensive car charger that i bought about a year and a half ago.
I am hoping it will work okay(As i manily use my Nano on the dash of my car to transmit to the stereo), but it won't be a problem to pick up a new one that DOES work.
Bar.

[mleming]

Didn't some company come out with an adapter that your old 30pin plugged into and then you plug that piece into the ipod. I was thinking I saw something like this with the new iphone 3g's.

[chris916]

Originally Posted by mleming

Didn't some company come out with an adapter that your old 30pin plugged into and then you plug that piece into the ipod. I was thinking I saw something like this with the new iphone 3g's.

cablejive.c0m/iphone_3g_charge_converter.html

replace the 0 with an o

[mleming]

man thats a pricey piece. hopefully some other companies put one of these together for a more competitive price tag. i would think $25 would be a fair price for this piece.

[jmpage2]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

It's NOT a matter of licensing. Apple has decided to save a few cents per unit to do away with the 12V to 5V converter from the firewire charging pin that used to be in all iPods. IF an accessory manufacture uses the 5V pin like Apple has been urging them to do so since the 5G shipped (that's 2005), there is no problem regardless of licensed status.

I agree, it's a bit lousy of Apple to leave people high and dry with previously functioning accessories when the internal component to keep a pin for a proprietary connector they themselves designed is so cheap and small, but at least place the blame where it belongs: Apple's cheapness/greed versus some whacked conspiracy regarding licensing and accessories. From their perspective, if Apple can sell as many non-firewire pin charging iPods this year as it did last year, they'll net about six million more in profits.

The problem is that the elimination of the 12V rail has done more than necessitate people run out and buy a new $20 power cord for their iPod (which is inconvenient enough as it is). This change has rendered everything from boom boxes, to speakers, to car stereos, etc, all obsoleted.

It's really ridiculous, especially as Apple are the ones who have the most to gain by re-selling someone another set of all of the above at nice fat margins.

I have a buddy who had an iPod adapter installed in his 2008 Corvette at a cost of $400. He bought an iPod compatible Kenwood stereo for his Pathfinder and had it installed, at a cost of another $400.

Both of these devices won't work with any of the new 5V iPods, or the iPhone 3G.

[jhollington]

Compared to some of the other boneheaded moves Apple has made (video lock-out, for example), I have a really hard time getting particularly excited about this one.

Granted, it would be nice if there was some advance information forthcoming so that people who do own expensive accessories know to simply not purchase incompatible iPod or iPhone devices, but as Code Monkey has already pointed out, the reality is that Apple has been pretty much demanding since 2005 that its official "Made-for-iPod" partners use only the 5V charging circuit. If you have an accessory purchased after 2006 that carries the "Made-for-iPod" logo, you have only the manufacturer to blame for not following Apple's guidelines. If it's a cheap knock-off accessory made without following Apple's guidelines, then you have only yourself to blame.

Further, all "Works with iPhone" accessories do use the 5V circuit, even for the original first-generation iPhone. Unlike the Made-for-iPod program, where it was the responsibility of accessory manufacturers to follow guidelines, the Works with iPhone program actually requires prototypes to be tested, certified and approved by Apple before they can be sold with that particular logo.

[Saxphile]

So if the 120GB iPod Classic 5V only as well or is it just the 4G Nano and iPhone 3G? I was going to go for a 4G Nano, but if it won't work with my car's iPod interface then it's out of the question.

[chris916]

Originally Posted by jmpage2

The problem is that the elimination of the 12V rail has done more than necessitate people run out and buy a new $20 power cord for their iPod (which is inconvenient enough as it is). This change has rendered everything from boom boxes, to speakers, to car stereos, etc, all obsoleted.

It's really ridiculous, especially as Apple are the ones who have the most to gain by re-selling someone another set of all of the above at nice fat margins.

I have a buddy who had an iPod adapter installed in his 2008 Corvette at a cost of $400. He bought an iPod compatible Kenwood stereo for his Pathfinder and had it installed, at a cost of another $400.

Both of these devices won't work with any of the new 5V iPods, or the iPhone 3G.

i have the same car (the Vette) and sold my old nano when I got my 3G iphone and was disappointed too. That adapter I linked to, while pricey at $40 + shipping, will fix our problem. It's the only solution we have for now.

Also to jhollington, there is NO "made-for-Ipod" solutions for the newer Corvettes (without replacing the factory navigation/head unit completely ). There are like 3 third-party solutions, all of which i think unfortunately chose to use the 12V specs. GM/apple have been saying they were releasing an official Ipod adapter called a PAL since 2006, but it has still yet to come out. So we're not being "cheap," we just have no other choice

[jhollington]

I understand that many car kits are in a unique situation, and I wasn't specifically referring to those (most would not consider a custom car kit a "cheap knock-off solution" ). In reality, many car kits are part of the "Made-for-iPod" program, even if they don't specifically use the logo.

I was however referring to the extremely large quantity of cheap cables and chargers out there that are from "no-name" companies and in many cases don't even work well with existing iPod and iPhone devices.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the car kit manufacturers have had plenty of time to fall in line with these recommendations. It's unfortunate for the consumer, but the key point is that Apple made no secret of the fact that FireWire support was on its way out.... I'm not saying Apple's entirely blameless here, but the accessory manufacturers need to share some of this blame.

[madmaxmedia]

Originally Posted by jhollington

Unlike the Made-for-iPod program, where it was the responsibility of accessory manufacturers to follow guidelines, the Works with iPhone program actually requires prototypes to be tested, certified and approved by Apple before they can be sold with that particular logo.

WTF? I don't get, who is the 'Made for iPod' program benefiting then? Not the consumers, if the products that get this label aren't actually confirmed as meeting the specs. I had assumed that if I see a 'Made for iPod' label on a product, it meant more than just that the company paid Apple a fee.

As far as the charging thing, I understand that there were going to be problems regardless, especially with older accessories. But it seems an odd policy difference to me between the iPod and iPhone programs. I own a Logitech AudioStation (which I think came out in 2007?) and was going to go to the manufacturer's website to see if it is 'Made for iPod', but I guess it doesn't really matter- it still may or may not charge one of the new iPods.

Thanks,
Steve

[jhollington]

That's basically the crux of the problem. "Made-for-iPod" is a licensing program more than anything else.... The Dock Connector interface is patented, so you need to pay Apple royalties to legally build accessories for it.

That having been said, it also provides access to specifications and things like authentication chips for more advanced accessories. Companies outside of the MFI program are basically "flying blind" and building their accessories through reverse-engineering the Dock Connector. In many ways it's surprising that Apple doesn't go after more of these companies.

Apple did make all of their MFI partners aware of the change in standards, strongly encouraging them to build their accessories with the 5V USB charging circuits. Of course they likely never provided a specific cut off date after which 12VDC FW charging would no longer be supported. However, this is the reason that major accessory manufacturers (ie, Belkin, Griffin, DLO, Kensington, etc), have fallen in line and chances are pretty high that if you've purchased an accessory released in the past two years, you're not going to have any problems.

Car kits and adapters are a special case, since many manufacturers have chosen to simply ignore Apple's recommendations and use the car's 12VDC power to directly power a connected iPod or iPhone. It's a more efficient way to manufacture an accessory, and since Apple gave no specific notice that FW would be going away, most probably assumed that they could continue to get away with it.

The main reason "Works with iPhone" required testing and certification was to ensure that the accessory neither transmitted nor received interference with the iPhone -- a much more serious potential problem that would not be relevant with traditional iPod models. The fact that any devices using 12V FW charging would have failed this certification process was merely a side-effect of the fact that Apple was doing testing in the first place.