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Topic: Official iPad Discussion Thread

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Old 02-12-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by astroman33 View Post
kornchild, your counter-points were fun and readable, though they are focused on hardware! I clearly struck a nerve!
Obviously you didn't read my post where I compared both the hardware and software of an iPad to less expensive netbooks. It is where I quoted your "revolutionary" statement. You didn't strike a nerve but you did praise the iPad even before it was released.
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You've set up a good strawman-- that somehow I'm saying that criticism isn't fair and only praise is! That would be silly.
Well then, why did you praise the iPad as being a revolutionary device before it has even been released? Holding something in such high regards before its release is just as bad as lambasting said product before it hits shelves.

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For us, we understand that scaling the device up from a small screen makes it qualitatively different--yes, revolutionary--from what has gone before in the regular computing universe. The naysayers who blast it as just a big iPod Touch, just don't get it.
Just was is there to "get?" There is that revolutionary term again. I guess you have had months of hands-on time with the iPad or have somehow seen into the future and observed how society has adopted this device? Maybe that is why you said it was a revolutionary and magical device, it can see into the future! Nothing about the iPad, right now, is revolutionary. Again, see the definition of the word.

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Anyone who saw the New York Times demo at the keynote and wasn't impressed with it has lost their sense of wonder. (And probably doesn't read newspapers any more!)
There is a big difference between being impressed with a tech demo and actually warranting the purchase of something. I am impressed with the 2010 V8 Comaro, I am impressed with 75" laser HDTVs, I am impressed with the modern architecture in Dubai, I am... That doesn't mean that I am going to buy a Comaro, one of those $20,000 laser HDTVs, or move to Dubai and participate in the civil engineering movement going on over there.

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A semantic point about sexism...
You obviously have no idea what the word fanboy means or how it is even used. It is outright dense to say that the word "fanboy" is sexist and only describes men/boys/males and doesn't acknowledge the fact that products can appeal to both sexes. There are many terms across multiple languages that are masculine and feminine in origin/nature yet they are used to describe universal actions/behaviors/whatever.

The term "fanboy" may have started out as describing the actions of young men but it is no longer stands for that. Instead, it is a uni-sex term that describes the way people think and they actions they perform. That is all in the world of electronics, computers, and gaming. Step outside of that world and into movies and books. That is where the term "fangirl" is often used. Go into threads dedicated to the stupid movie/book series Twilight and you will see that term thrown around a lot. So, are they being sexist? Nope. Let's not forget market demographics showing that males between the ages of 15 to 35 purchase most electronics and games while the Twilight series appeals to young teen/tween girls and women in the 35-45 age group.

Again, I fail to see how it is alright for someone to say that they don't see the iPad being adopted outside of Apple fanboy circles and yet have another person come in saying that the iPad is a magical and revolutionary device all before it even hits the stores. You are still blindly praising the iPad and throwing all of the marketing slogans our way yet you haven't even used one. If you happened to put a finger on the iPad, it would have been for 2 minutes at Apple's event. That definitely isn't enough time to effectively judge the product.



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Old 02-13-2010, 12:58 AM
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kornchild2002 its not cool to rip on the simple ones. i do have to say that i feel like apple is going to get two good groups to buy the ipad ( not including the fanboys ) and those two groups are students ( because of the ibook store which apple is trying to get college text books on their ) and business people mainly the ones that have to travel. of course their is a very good chance that more people will get into the ipad because of the app store and from whoever jailbreaks it with the cool things you can do like that
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:15 AM
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Re: students - I keep seeing the "this will appeal to students" argument thrown around, and I just want to know exactly who are these students who's parents are both affluent enough and fiscally heedless enough to supply junior with both a full laptop and/or desktop AND a $500+ companion, because you can't just function on the iPad, particularly considering the dual issue that, one, at launch and for at least the next year or two, productive software is going to be sparse, and, two, you have software requirements when you're at a university. I've spent a significant amount of my life on universities, thirteen years, and while there are some students and families with that sort of money to throw around, the vast majority are not in any position to be buying such a device at this current function & price point.

If Apple plans on nabbing the student demographic, they're going to need some serious exclusive contracts with a LOT of educational book publishers. The only way the iPad for students starts to make sense over a laptop - which handles everything - is if it can be justified by turning your $300-$400 a semester book bill into something akin to $150 a semester via iPad only eBooks. If they can't manage to pull that off, it's just going to be a fancy toy for those same spoiled brats who are driving around in recent model luxury SUVs while the majority of students are trying to figure out how to keep their 15 y.o. clunker running, their non-smart phone cell bill paid, and expand their lunch options beyond ramen.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:07 AM
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i guess i can see that being the case at community college but most universities that i have seen many students have pretty decent laptops but they are always trying to find a outlet to plug their laptops in. also their are a lot of apps that are out their that can help with most software things they need and it wont take long before more apps for the ipad come out that will help even more. now im not saying every student should go and get a ipad because we dont know if what apple is saying is all true so we dont know how well this will really fit but the possibilities are their.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:28 AM
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i guess i can see that being the case at community college but most universities that i have seen many students have pretty decent laptops but they are always trying to find a outlet to plug their laptops in.
No, I've been on private and even affluent universities (worked for over two years at Georgetown University), so this isn't some classist community college issue. Students may have decent laptops, but that is their only computer. The point is that the iPad will never replace the laptop, it's intentionally designed to not do so (i.e. iTunes syncing on a home computer required). As someone who has been through my graduate degree and worked for a number years on universities and a parent, I tell you what would happen in my household:

"Dad, I need this second device that costs as much as my computer."
"Well, child of mine, what does it do?"
"You see, it does only some of what my laptop does and not one thing extra, but it weights 1.5lbs less, isn't that cool!"
"Cute, hope you can afford it with your minimum wage job."

There's a very simple chicken and egg problem that will take serious effort on Apple's part to address: it has to make fiscal sense to buy one of these for a student, because your average student is not in a position to by $500-$800 devices on their own, and intelligent parents will not be spending that sort of money to duplicate functions their kid already has access to just so junior can save a pound or two in their already heavy backpacks and play type on a touch screen versus a keyboard. The other key problem for Apple is that most universities gave up on Macs and Apple several years ago, many flat out requiring a PC and not a Mac from their undergrads. It's going to take one heck of a trick from Apple to make this more than a luxurious toy for the spoiled brats of the world.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:00 PM
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The iPad is a walled garden, you have to use iTunes to do anything with it and I'm sure its locked tight to make it difficult to "jail break" it...iPod Classic never was cracked.

Ridiculous, Apple has been no better than Microsoft since 2007. At this point they don't even have to try to make great products they just put their logo on their items and the lemmings will come and buy it.

I mean look at the demo iLounge first looks said it was buggy. Apple doesn't even bother finalizing products they just throw them out the door with all sorts of glitches [i.e. iPod Classic/iPod Nano 3rd Gen] and let the public beta test them for a premium price.

Apple is a better company when they are in the hole, when they are on top they just go through the motions.

They need more competition.



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Old 02-15-2010, 09:01 AM
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The iPad is a walled garden, you have to use iTunes to do anything with it and I'm sure its locked tight to make it difficult to "jail break" it...iPod Classic never was cracked.
The question isn't whether the garden has a wall, it's whether there's sufficient within the garden for you to do what you want to do with the device. I'm sure for many people, there is.

With 140,000 apps plus iWork and more apps coming, it may be a walled garden but it's a very big garden.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:04 AM
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With 140,000 apps plus iWork and more apps coming, it may be a walled garden but it's a very big garden.
Kind of true, but when 135,000 of those 140,000 apps are shovel ware of the shovelingist kind, those numbers don't actually mean that much. Never mind the number of them that are stand alone versions of popular web based services that simply can't run in Safari.

The problem is that there's no reason to believe the wall is serving us as consumers. There's been no attempt to use the wall to improve the user experience by ensuring the quality of what is released. While Apple recently cracked down on the pure cloners, there are still multitudes of programs that are nothing more than slightly altered variations on the same desktop widgets that have been around for several years on OSX, Linux, and now Windows. So, yeah, I can choose between hundreds of calculators, and I can get hundreds of one book only book readers, but I can't install the browser of my choice.

It's a big garden, sure, but if all there is to eat is 2000 slightly different varieties of beans and turnips when what I really want is a watermelon and kiwi, well, that's still not going to work.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:42 AM
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Kind of true, but when 135,000 of those 140,000 apps are shovel ware of the shovelingist kind, those numbers don't actually mean that much. Never mind the number of them that are stand alone versions of popular web based services that simply can't run in Safari.

The problem is that there's no reason to believe the wall is serving us as consumers. There's been no attempt to use the wall to improve the user experience by ensuring the quality of what is released. While Apple recently cracked down on the pure cloners, there are still multitudes of programs that are nothing more than slightly altered variations on the same desktop widgets that have been around for several years on OSX, Linux, and now Windows. So, yeah, I can choose between hundreds of calculators, and I can get hundreds of one book only book readers, but I can't install the browser of my choice.

It's a big garden, sure, but if all there is to eat is 2000 slightly different varieties of beans and turnips when what I really want is a watermelon and kiwi, well, that's still not going to work.
That's true. ("Shovelware" - I like that!)

It's a good job, then, that Apple isn't the only garden.

The only Apple product I have is the iPod Touch (which came my way as I was replacing my iPod). While it's true that I can do more with my netbook than I can with my iPod Touch, I'm still drawn to the iPad. I couldn't specifically tell you why, except in that I find my Touch to be a more enjoyable experience than my netbook for non-business duties and so I feel a larger version of that will enhance that experience. Seeing the iWork option just added to that.

That's probably about as vague as I suspect many potential iPad customers feel.

The iPad wouldn't replace my netbook but that's only because most netbooks are not netbooks - they're mini-laptops (they're not as bad as their press - which is what Steve Jobs defined them as). My netbook replaced my desktop and so to ask the iPad to replace my netbook would be to expect it to replace my desktop. That'd be silly. Yet, the iPad is probably what the netbook should have been (just an email and internet device with the capability of doing a little more).
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:48 PM
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Kind of true, but when 135,000 of those 140,000 apps are shovel ware of the shovelingist kind, those numbers don't actually mean that much. Never mind the number of them that are stand alone versions of popular web based services that simply can't run in Safari.
What about the fartware? How many applications on the iTunes Store are designed to make a farting noise when the screen is touched? I know that Apple is playing the numbers game, just like EVERY other company out there, but they really shouldn't count such applications in their numbers. I know that they technically are applications but, in all reality, only the mindless would spend $0.99 (or more) for such a waste.



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Old 02-16-2010, 01:57 AM
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LOL kornchild2002 i agree only the mindless would spend $0.99 for those apps a lot of those apps you can get for free if you look but even with it being free it doesnt make it better and i know its stupid to love the ipad just because its apple but on that same note i know its stupid to hate something just because its apple i see the chance that the ipad is going to be a great device but i can also see it going the other way and being a $500 toy that few use. i am honestly hope for it to be a great device but if not i wont lose sleep over it
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:59 PM
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by the way does anyone have a idea when the apple stores will have the ipad for us to mess with
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:53 PM
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yeah, when will these babies ever hit the stores ???
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Old 02-21-2010, 01:04 PM
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Thanks, JSR. I appreciate your comments. The iPod Touch does draw one in and is remarkably enjoyable. It's that special combination of elegance, interface, and design that makes the iPad appealing--and that renders moot those narrow-minded critiques that it's missing certain hardware features (USB port, SD slot, e-ink).

I feel sorry for the makers of e-book reading devices and low-end netbooks.

I won't waste any more bandwidth or energy responding to kornchild's latest non-sequiturs and straw men! Anyone interested in what I really wrote should just re-read my previous two posts in this thread...
and some of my other comments.
http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread...16#post1359716
http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread...12#post1359712

Plus, others have made the points better than I could! If you're someone who found this thread because you were looking to learn more about the iPad, you'd likely be interested in the following articles:

Fleishman's thoughtful analysis "Is the iPad a Kindle Killer?" on
Tidibts http://db.tidbits.com/article/10966
Gosh! Gasp! It was done pre-release! Holy cow, Batman! How is it possible that someone can write a thoughtful analysis, with praise and criticism, *before* the iPad comes out?
Kitchen's "iPad a Better Choice than a Netbook"
http://lowendmac.com/ed/kitchens/10k...er-choice.html

Dilger's series dissecting the "10 Myths about the iPad" for Roughly Drafted Magazine
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/0...ig-ipod-touch/

and

Stephen Fry's "Ipad About". He has telling insights about what it's actually like to use the device.
http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/01/28...out/#more-1965
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:55 AM
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I like to add my opinion as well, I think the IPAD does have a potential to be a great product, but the major factor that will either make it succeed or fail would be what sort of applications developers will develop for it.

Also the discussion whether or not the IPAD would appeal to students will be again affected by the publishers. IF they TRY to do a traditional EBook then I personally think it would be a waste. I think Academic publishers will need to rethink in how they will deliver their content to potential students.

Personally, I'm looking at this and the HP SLATE. They are both beautiful devices, I'm going to probably wait til both are out and see which one I actually prefer.
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