The Guide to a fully integrated in-car solution

[swy32x]

Checking CNET today, I noticed that there was a special feature on 'iPod your car'.

Upon clicking, I found an 8-page featurette, complete with videos and recommendations and how to's on how to connect your iPod to your car stereo, and have a fully integretated system.

It is well worth the read/watch.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10163_7-6212328-1.html?tag=nav

[THX]

Thanks for the link. I was afraid they'd give us bad information and misconceptions but that write-up was pretty much spot on. Someone should tell him about the 255/512 limit though.

If they had the time and resources (which they probably do :) ) they should do Alpine vs Pioneer vs Clarion vs Kenwood adapters. It also would have been nice if they mentioned BMW has a stock adapter out there now, with Mercedes, Nissan, Volvo, Alfa-Romeo, and Ferrari coming out with something similar by next year.

edit- it's funny how he thought the antenna port was the power ;)

[stickuto]

Nice Post Snowy, and yea it quite a good read, well worth a look.

[the4starish]

Originally posted by THX
it's funny how he thought the antenna port was the power ;)

lol, i noticed that too!!! The videos were good and helpful for people who need to see things done. Other than that, I got most of that information from this forum. But in the end, kudos for the find and kudos to cnet for not butchering that one.

[LesFong]

Originally posted by THX
If they had the time and resources (which they probably do :) ) they should do Alpine vs Pioneer vs Clarion vs Kenwood adapters.

Would anyone like to comment on what option they think is best? Any good/bad experiences with these? I would love to hear, as I am looking to get my car fitted soon. (The laser on the CD changer in my car is on its last legs!)

Cheers

Matt :)

[THX]

As far as I gathered:

Alpine has a new interface out called FullSpeed which is supposed to be the fastest. I don't have it but intitial reviews look good, definitely better than the slow KCA-420i adapter.

You need two things:

1) A 2006 model Alpine head unit
2) A $30 KCE-422i cable (no more adapter boxes!)

Couple things to note:

- All new Alpine unit model #'s start out with CDE, older ones were CDA, denoting the older Ai-Net bus which was designed for CD changers.
- the CDE-9857 and more expensive models have percentage scrolling, which breaks up the song/artist/playlist list into 6 bookmarks, fast-forwarding to those points for faster searching.
- According to everything I've read, the 255 barrier is gone

Links of interest:

Official Promotional Page (http://www.alpinefullspeed.com)
Alpine's homepage (http://www.alpine-usa.com/)
Crutchfield link (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-l75xW4sOSN9/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=500KCE422I)

_____________________________________________


Alpine KCA-420i (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eofK8Yujprc/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=500KCA420I&g=227550) [ link (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50344) ] [ link (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72200) ] [ link (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89681) ]

Pros:
long 16 character text limit
Although slow in scrolling, still the fastest of the 4 brands
Ability to scroll up to 60 artists/songs/playlists at a time with GlideTouch strip
Great displays for text information in the higher-end 2005 models
Alpine is a quality brand name

Cons:
Search scrolling is slow and clunky
255/512 song/artist/playlist # barrier *read below
Alpine uses a 1-bit DAC for all their head units (aimed at sound geeks)
GlideTouch takes some getting used to
Cannot search through Genre / Composer / Audiobooks

*There have been some misconceptions on what the 255/512 barrier is. Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-GcoZhT3s8pO/reviews/20040914/alpine_ipod.html?page=4) seems to explain it the best: "Depending on the model, '04 Alpine receivers can display the tag info for a maximum of 512 playlists, albums, or artists (depending on what search mode you're in), and for up to 255 songs within a given folder. If you've got more than 255 songs in a single playlist, for example, tracks after the 255th will be identified by number only."
_____________________________________________

Pioneer CD-IB100 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eofK8Yujprc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=130CDIB100) [ link (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78125) ]

Pros:
Decently-priced head units
Pioneer is a decent brand name, especially if you get a Premiere deck

Cons:
Search scrolling is slow and clunky
8 character text limit on songs
Cannot search through Genre / Composer / Audiobooks

_____________________________________________

Kenwood KCA-iP500 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eofK8Yujprc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=113IP500)

Take these user reviews with a grain of salt. (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jfwlyGwBMdn/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=113IP500&id=review) I'd rather get info from people here or car audio forums.

_____________________________________________

Clarion

Clarion has two iPod adapters:

1) One for their expensive VRX755VD (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-oT2gPXt0wjl/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=020VRX755&g=168550) DVD receiver (CCA649 iPod Cable (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eofK8Yujprc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=227550&I=020CCA649)) [ User Reviews (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jfwlyGwBMdn/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=227550&I=020CCA649&id=review) ]

2) One for their regular receivers (EA1251B iPod Control interface (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eofK8Yujprc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=227550&I=020EA1251B))

The two user reviews I see for the CCA649 sound promising but don't give enough detail.

_____________________________________________

I'll edit the above if I hear anything.

[Hawkeynut]

Hey there,

I have a stock unit in a 2003 Chevy Malibu and I would like to integrate my iPod to the unit. My stereo has a cd and tape deck but I havent been able to find any information on if it has the required cd changer input on it.

What I was looking to purchase is this link (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=19&sku_id=0665000FS10059102&catid=22560&newdeptid=2) but I am not sure if my head unit has the required plug in. Before I rip apart my dash to find out, I am hoping there would be a stereo nut that might be able to help me out.

Thanks!

[LesFong]

Thanks THX. I think I'm going to go with an Alpine setup. Not sure which head unit at this stage. (There's a store locally that I can try each unit out with the input linked.)

Cheers

Matt

[ghostdogg]

I bought the Alpine KCA-420i and
Alpine CDA-9847 after reading the CNET article - it is great. Highly recommended

[chelle]

ghostdog...where did you buy them? and if you don't mind, how much did you buy them for? thanks!

[ghostdogg]

chelle,

Got everything from Crutchfield.com. The Alpine CDA-9847 was $199 and the Alpine KCA-420i ipod adapter was $99. Comes with free harness to attach to the cars wiring, free plastic insert so the new head unit fits perfectly on your dashboard, and best of all 1 day free shipping (ordered it 2pm on Wed and received it at my office 11am on Thurs). They also give you install instuctions for your specific car, so the install was super easy.

Good luck!

[lightning iPod]

Even though I'm a huge ///Alpine fan, I don't find the KCA-420i that great of a product because you are still limited to the controls on your head unit - a head unit not designed for an ipod. A cd changer has like 6 total commands for it to work perfectly - and the concept of nested menus, playlists, etc is just not there. It just seems like the reason that the ipod concept works, is that the design of the ipod itself works. So, why not just use the controls on the ipod itself...

Check out the Alpine KCA-801B. It's basically an aux input into an Alpine head unit, but you use the ipod normally.

At least that is my opinion, but I know many people want to control it via their HU. I will as well once the HU is made to control the ipod directly (i.e. no adapter required)

[ZPrime]

Originally posted by lightning iPod
Even though I'm a huge ///Alpine fan, I don't find the KCA-420i that great of a product because you are still limited to the controls on your head unit - a head unit not designed for an ipod. A cd changer has like 6 total commands for it to work perfectly - and the concept of nested menus, playlists, etc is just not there. It just seems like the reason that the ipod concept works, is that the design of the ipod itself works. So, why not just use the controls on the ipod itself...

Check out the Alpine KCA-801B. It's basically an aux input into an Alpine head unit, but you use the ipod normally.

At least that is my opinion, but I know many people want to control it via their HU. I will as well once the HU is made to control the ipod directly (i.e. no adapter required) For what it's worth, the KCA-801B is supposedly discontinued.

This is a shame, because it allows you to switch between its AUX-in as well as another AiNet device (changer, XM/Sirius, another ipod on KCA-420i? :D) I have an 801B and it is nifty. Has two AiNet plugs and then a "remote" lead. Put +12V on that lead and the audio on the RCA jacks takes over. Remove the +12V and the other AiNet device plays again. The headunit controls and display simply reflect status from the true AiNet device downstream - if you have a changer, it will say "disc 1" or whatever even if you have the 801B "active" and pushing your AUX signal from the RCAs.

They also ahve a KCA-121B (i think that's the model) - it's just an AiNet plug on one end and a pair of RCAs on the other. It's a much "dumber" device. When it is plugged in, the head unit just displays "Track 0, 0:00" the entire time.

I'm in the exact same mindset as you though as far as interface goes. I originally bought an iPod after SELLING my Creative Zen 60GB. I got a 40GB iPod solely based upon the selling point of the "wonderful" iPod interface from Alpine. (I've been using Alpine for ages in my cars so was expecting good things.) The KCA-420i is a huge disappointment, at least with my listening style.

I tend to pick an album and listen to the whole album at once, in order. No shuffle/random stuff, and I don't make playlists either. I just want to use the iPod like a MASSIVE, very fast CD changer. ;) The 420 is WAY too slow for this - if you have any real amount of albums on the ipod (i have around 150 at last count) it takes FOREVER to scroll through them. Thankfully it can "loop backwards," unlike the actual iPod itself, but it still takes ages to get to items in the MIDDLE of the album list.

If it weren't so terribly slow i'd probably have stayed with the 420, but instead I'm switching to an aux-in setup with a ProClip kit to mount the ipod on my dash in eyesight and arm's length. It works MUCH quicker and is far easier to read than the 420. There's only one thing lacking now, and this is a problem with Apple - Album/Artist names don't scroll in the selection lists. I browse by artist, then album, and i like my albums sorted by year, so I have them custom-tagged so they show as "19xx Artist Name." This is usually too long for the ipod's display, so I have to rely on my knowledge of the artist's discography and the first few letters of the name to know what i'm going for... The Alpine system at least did this well, since it scrolled the selection items back and forth the whole time. I wish apple would add selection list horizontal scrolling as a configurable option in the next iPod update...

[CAlvarez]

Any good/bad experiences with these? I would love to hear, as I am looking to get my car fitted soon.
I currently have a Clarion VRX755VD (7" touch-screen) with the integration cable. That replaced a Clarion DXZ835MP (standard DIN head unit) using line-in for the iPod. I also spent some time with a few of the high-end Alpine standard head units, didn't get to try the Alpine touch-screen.

Clarion... No size limitations that I've noticed. It shows 1100-some songs in one list, unlike the Alpines. Display of items is quite speedy. Scrolling is ok, but if you have thousands of songs it just takes a while since there is no wheel-type interface, just up/down arrows. Press and hold the arrow and it will flip page by page, then speed up. Not great. Other than a wheel or a slider, I don't know how to make it better. The Clarion head units always have great preamp sections, with very high quality sound with external amps. I've never tried their built-in amps.

Here are the stupid things it does though... First thing you notice is that it turns off shuffle and turns on repeat EVERY TIME you plug it in. At least on my Mini. It also changes those settings on the iPod itself. Stupid, huh? The Alpine doesn't do this. Also, the Clarion starts playing from one particular song every single time you plug it in, the Alpine remembers where you left off.

The Alpines have limits on the number of items per list/folder. Their scroll bar is a nifty idea, but it's not precise or sensitive enough. You'd think it could work like a wheel, but it doesn't. And since the filename reading/display is so slow, you end up jumping ahead too far or waiting for the display. The Clarion display keeps up with fast-scrolling. The Alpine chokes on a filename with non-US characters, while the Clarion displays a "?" in place of the one character it can't handle. The Alpine says "No support" for the entire line, which is dumb. For example, the proper spelling of "Motley Crue" is shown as "M?tley Cr?e" on the Clarion, but as "No support" on the Alpine. Same for the name of my iPod, which contains an apostrophe.

Neither the Alpine nor Clarion support podcasts.

What if I had to do it all over again? I'd buy a standard head unit WITHOUT integration and use the line port again. The iPod's interface is superior to all the others. The large screen on the Clarion helps with driving and listening, but with the other annoyances I don't think it's worth it.

[Nikoos]

Lot of similar sentiments here. I purchased a Pioneer head unit with the iPod adapter. Terrible interface, but from all the reviews I've read, it seems like thats just where the tech is at right now. Sent the whole bundle back to Crutch and am buying a head unit with an AUX in to run the show from the iPod. Anyone heard a word on second gen adapters and should I think about buying one of these higher end Alpine units with the bonus text that might work better with a second gen?

[psm0110]

I just took my Nissan Quest apart this past weekend and posted step by step directions on installing the PAC AAI-NIS specifically for use with the iPod (although it it just supplies auxiliary audio inputs).

Those directions are on QuestDriver, a Nissan Quest Forum (http://questdriver.com)

The most complicated parts are taking off the dash & central console molding, then creating the jacks themselves required a bit of soldering...

CNET's article is great, but not everyone wants to or can install an alpine headunit.

[chinle1]

I've never understood why no-one produces an integrated car stereo where the iPod docks directly onto the stereo itself without any need for self-customisation and/or cables. Is it that Apple isn't licencing some key technology???

[GavinD]

Wow those sound like some difficult solutions. There are direct connection peices you can purchase that offer much better quality than those fm transmitters. I purchased mine at mp3yourcar.com for $200 bucks about 6 months ago and never looked back.

Hope this was helful :)

[Snowsk5054]

I bought a Alpine head unit...the CDE- 9845RB, which is basic crap, considering I spent a small fortune on it. It has no Aux input or anything, basic aftermarket cd player, with a Aux output line, which blows.

I am looking into a FM Modulator to hook my ipod up. I dont want a wireless thing, cuz I heard they suck, so looks like FM modulator it is.

Anyone got any other suggestions or reviews on the FM modulators?

[mp3m0nk3y]

Originally posted by chinle1
I've never understood why no-one produces an integrated car stereo where the iPod docks directly onto the stereo itself without any need for self-customisation and/or cables. Is it that Apple isn't licencing some key technology???

Yeah, I don't get it either. The iTunes library is organized in XML. You'd think a car stereo could cache that file in the head unit when the iPod is first connected. Wouldn't that make searching, scrolling, and playback performance much faster? Maybe Apple is holding something back.

My car will take a double DIN and I'm dying for a touch screen navigation model with *tight* iPod integration. I don't even care that much about satellite radio. Just give me the ability to stow my iPod in the glove box without giving up the album, artist, and track info. And would it be too much to ask for album art? It's all right there on the iPod already.

If Apple would make their own after market head units, I'd be all over it. Maybe a single DIN model with the option of white, brushed metal, or carbon face plates. And while I'm dreaming, a double DIN model with navigation software by TomTom.

[nsxrebel]

Originally posted by mp3m0nk3y
Yeah, I don't get it either. The iTunes library is organized in XML. You'd think a car stereo could cache that file in the head unit when the iPod is first connected. Wouldn't that make searching, scrolling, and playback performance much faster? Maybe Apple is holding something back.

My car will take a double DIN and I'm dying for a touch screen navigation model with *tight* iPod integration. I don't even care that much about satellite radio. Just give me the ability to stow my iPod in the glove box without giving up the album, artist, and track info. And would it be too much to ask for album art? It's all right there on the iPod already.

If Apple would make their own after market head units, I'd be all over it. Maybe a single DIN model with the option of white, brushed metal, or carbon face plates. And while I'm dreaming, a double DIN model with navigation software by TomTom.





Then you need to go with the Kenwood DDX-7017 double din unit. I was at a local track meet, and a guy had this headunit installed in his car with the ipod interface. looks great and works just as good.

I have the interface for my single-din kenwood, so i already know its a good interface. I already placed an order for mine. cant wait till it comes in.

[mp3m0nk3y]

Check out what's new at Alpine:

Alpine IVA-W200 (Double DIN touch screen)
http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/products/product.php?model=IVA-W200&lang=en&tab=D

iPod Full Speed (single cable interface, no converter box)
http://www.alpinefullspeed.com/

[Galley]

I noticed that Alpine deck in the Crutchfield catalog I got the other day. It's about freaking time someone did that!

[mp3m0nk3y]

^ Word!

I also noticed that Clarion has what looks like a nice, new double DIN unit (http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2006/multimedia/multimedia_source_units/MAX675VD/us-en-product-pf_1134643389338.html). Although, if you look at the iPod interface they offer, it still uses a box converter.

[Ranger SVO]

I use the Kenwood KAC IP500. It works flawlessly. Kenwood says that this interface works with 2004 and newer Kenwoods. My KDC-x617 is a 2000 model.

[dirktanner89]

I have the Alpine CDA-9856. Scrolling is a pain, but, my God, what a DIFFERENCE in sound over an FM transmitter! If you love your iPod and listen in your car as much as I do, forget the transmitters and take the plunge (~$270 complete with installation). A word of warning though, you'll be enticed to upgrade your car speakers and add a sub, all of which I did. I am music-poor, but very happy.

[dnickell]

Checking CNET today, I noticed that there was a special feature on 'iPod your car'.

Upon clicking, I found an 8-page featurette, complete with videos and recommendations and how to's on how to connect your iPod to your car stereo, and have a fully integretated system.

It is well worth the read/watch.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10163_7-6212328-1.html?tag=nav

I take it that there's no good solution to getting good fidelity and a noise free transmission. I've a E320 Mercedes and bought the charger/transmitter from Rat Shack. I can tell when traffic lights are changing because of the static. :(

I installed a ground strap (NAPA $7) that worked fairly well, but only in town. On a road trip recently it was worthless because it, of course, wasn't in constant contact with the groung.; especially when passing the 400 KVA powerlines.

My solution was to finally put everything on CDs and play them via the player, but that's a rotten solution when I've put out $$$ for the ipod and other software.

Any comments on the above appreciated.

[kyussmondo]

I've found the best way to change between artists and albums on the iPod and Alpine route is to actually select the album you want using the iPod then connecting it to interface. Same with shuffle songs. Just select Shuffle Songs on the iPod then plug it in then put it in shuffle mode on the head unit.

The head unit has a terrible interface for an iPod, it was designed purely for CDs, not much more. Plus, I have found that you can't skip tracks to much and the more songs the iPod has the more frequently you have to reset the iPod for the interface to recognise it again, anyone else have this problem? The main reason I use the interface is for the sound quality, and Alpine is a top quality brand. Although, now I wonder if it would be better just connecting the iPod through AUX then I have the iPod interface with the sound quality. Although I would prefer going from line-out to AUX rather than phones to AUX. Is there any car docking devices for the iPod which provide line-out? If so that would be great.

[sunny_dec]

introduce a new iPod adapter--XCarLink, it is not FM transmitter but wire connection
it seems like that:
http://www.chelebao.com/images/lsq/1ipodversion.jpg

http://www.chelebao.com/images/lsq/3ipodconnected.jpg

[dnickell]

Nice photos, however I feel I've found an easier solution. I simply wrapped some small gage enamel wire around the lead from the frequency control to the cig lighter and extended it to the rear of the car where my antenna is; about 4' is sufficient. I ran this under the carpet. After a week of testing there's been no more problems with interferience.

The only problem now is the weak audio signal from the iPod nano! It's about 12 db below the regular radio broadcast level.

[MSU ILLEST]

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=2033&sku=35508

[dnickell]

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=2033&sku=35508

Thank you, looks like a winner! :D

[ken1965]

Hi everyone.

In my '94 Dogoe Dakota pickup, I have a 2002 Alpine head unit that I spent more than $400 on between the unit itself and the installation charge. Therefore I want to keep it for as long as I own this truck, possibly longer. I was trying to find a good solution to being able to play my iPod through the auxilary input on my head unit, since those FM transmitters are garbage in my opinion. Unfortunately, none of the add-ons Alpine produces is compatible with my model, nor is anything else available from other manufacturers. I tried a Harmon Kardon Drive + Play that I just could not get to work. After two tech support phone calls, I gave up on that option.

There are cable available that can be connected to the auxilary inputs of the more popular mobile audio manufacturers. This website carries these cables:

http://www.peripheralelectronics.com/sitemap.asp


While browsing a do-it-yourself audio website called 41hz.com which sells stereo ampifiers as kits, I found a website with this URL:

http://home.swipnet.se/ridax/connector.htm

The guy who runs this website sells connectors that have to be assembled. This assembly requires some good soldering skills however. There is a circuit card extender available that has the iPod male and female connectors at opposite ends with solder connections with each corresponding pin. The extender circuit board even has the connections for a video output. I have purchased these parts and will soon build a cable with the respective connectors at the ends with a video output RCA jack. I have a video monitor that I can mount under the dash that can then show what is playing on the iPod while it is safely and securely hiden in the center console storage area of my truck.

When I get aroun to building this, I will post photos for you all to see. I hope I can be of help to those that have the same predicament as I do.

Sincerely,
Ken

[ken1965]

I forgot to mention that I have Scosche remote control that can be connected inline with the parts discussed above as well.

Ken

[SBrooks1]

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=2033&sku=35508

This is my first post thanking you for posting that link 4 months ago. I just ordered one for my AUX input. ;)

[scakes]

Hi All,

yeah the alpine unit scrolls really slow for me in my old car. I usually just use the playlists. I however got the DICE electronics i-BMW-t for my wifes 3-series and the scrolling is much faster. Its click and advance as fast as I can press it. It also does the text on the radio display. We ordered from www.icarkits.com . I just cant wait until one comes out for the subaru. Has anyone tried the iCarplay by chance?

B
I would hold off on that second purchase. I had a kit of theirs installed on my 08 4Runner. It worked great for about 5-6 weeks until one day I no longer could control my iPod through my Nav Screen or steering wheel.
I called their Customer Support and they were no help - told me what I already read on the site. He then told me that I need to take it back to my installer and have them call Dice Cust. Support.
I did and Dice told them the same thing they told me. "Weird. It should work".
But here is the kicker. Dice is so proud of the craftsmanship and product, that they only offer a 30 day warranty on their products. 30 DAYS? That's barely enough time to have it shipped, installed and working for more than a week.
So after having the pleasure of paying to have their crap installed and removed, I'm going to have another junk unit sent to me so that I can pay to install again (and most likely removed after it breaks).
What a joke. DONT BUY ANY ELECTRONIC PRODUCT THAT'S NEW ON THE MARKET AND ONLY OFFERS A 30 DAY WARRANTY - i.e. Anything from Dice Electronics Catalog. :shake:

[partyd]

scakes all your 5 messages all over the board are the same complains about dice ipod interface just so you know this is not craigslist, go there they have a rants and raves section maybe you will feel better

Dice electronics products are good the company is been making this ipod kits for years,
we install about 20 a month no problems and the warranty is 1 full year