Questions about Ulimate Ears

[wildsponge]

I've been looking for an in ear set of phones for a while now. I have had no luck so far. Here's my criteria:

bass - gobbs of bass, bass for days, thumping it up 70's style (maybe that's an exaggeration but AT LEAST as much as my Sennheiser HD25-1's)

mids and highs - fairly detailed (a touch more than my senn's) but not harsh or excessively bright. (I like to crank my music up a little loud and don't like shrill highs)

comfort - have to be able to be worn for hours on end with no fatigue, redness, or discomfort whatsoever

price - was trying to keep it down, but at this point, anything under $700 will do.

I've tried out the etymotic ER4S's and they were PATHETIC. Anemic bass, metallic sounding, and painful in my ears. What the crap is everyone raving about?

Next I tried the Shure E5C's. Pretty good in the bass but not quite as low-reaching and warm sounding as my cans at home. Highs were a bit shrill when I wasn't pushing them into my ears (I only was able to try the silicon tips at the time, not the foam ones. This was probably the problem). Not nearly as comfortable as I had hoped for, but WAY better in sound and comfort than the ety's. The sound was almost as good as my senn's but still hoping there's something better.

So I've read reviews on everything else: The whole Shure E line, the Future Sonics EM3's, the Ety line, and just about everything else and I think I have found what I'm looking for.

The Ultimate Ears UE5c's seem perfect from what I've heard. What do you guys think? Also, is there anyway to return them if I get them and they absolutely not what I'm looking for? Thanks.

Any other thoughts, comments, etc welcome.

- wildsponge

[thebrain]

since the ultimate ears are custom made to your ear shape I am pretty sure you cant return them. Sorry.
I just settled for apple in ears because I cant justify >$30 on heaphones of any kind when listening to mp3's

[rx7_fan]

Only one guy in this forum has the UE5c, his name is Kauffe. Search his name, he did a review of it.

[kauffee]

I'm not sure you'll be satisfied with the UE5c. Reason being, according to the general consensus on the Shure E5c, it is the warmest and bassiest of the canalphones with the tamest (most rolled off?) highs. The UE5c will have slightly less warmth than the E5c and it will certainly have more extended highs.

So if you found the E5c not quite bassy enough and still too shrill in the highs, you'd be moving in the wrong direction going to the UE5c. Of all the existing canalphones, the E5c will be closest to what you're looking for.

Then again, you might not have been wearing the E5c properly. That's always a possibility. thedodgyguy has both the Senn 25-1 and the E5c, so he might be able to lend some insight into whether or not you're hearing the E5c correctly.

As far as comfort, the UE5c will solve that problem. They are amazingly comfortable... much more than any universal fit IEM, regardless of tip. And no, you cannot return them if you don't like them. That's the risk.

[SketchySmurf]

OK, I have a case of major upgraditis. My etymotic er-61 isn't even a month old yet and I already want the UE-5c.

First I would have to say that my ety's sound pretty good. The sound is probably worth the premium price over in ears you can get at retail. As far as bass is concerned, it doesn't have the thump that everyone seems to be looking for (the same kind of thump you would get at a frat house kegger.) But IMHO the bass is there, its warm, its precise and its never overpowering. I don't find the highs shrill at all, but maybe its because I listen to a lot of rock and indie so I don't have the proper reference...

BUT here's what's eating my craw: they are uncomfortable as all hell. First I tried the triple flange. I followed the instructions (lifting the ear up and out, wet the tip, opening mouth, etc...) and the sensation I get is some little demon getting a bathroom plunger and forcing compressed air into my ear canal. It hurts so bad that I actually get slightly dizzy from it. And it takes soooo long to do it right. Once they are in there your ears just ache. So much so that you can't even concentrate on the music.

So next I tried cutting off the last flange. It helped matters, but the seal was most noticeably not as tight. Instead of being virtually 10% deaf with the triple flange, I was only 30% deaf with the double.

Now the foamies were much better. Isolation is probably 20% deaf, but you still had the feeling they were stuffed in your ear canal and were pressing out into the walls of my ear canal. The microphonics on all three methods precluded working out with them.

Now i've been reading about the awesome production of the UE double drivers. They make hella sense, but what I'm most concerned about is comfort. I heard someone say that a seal is made when inserting (and that it took some time also) and a vacuum is created. This makes me cringe. Am I going to feel the same way I do when I use my ety's?

2) I think I read a poster saying that ears continue to change throughout adulthood. Will I need to have molds redone every x years?

3) Say the initial iteration of the earphones don't fit/are uncomfortable will UE redo them for me?

4) Durability: I hear a lot about this customized case. Which I'm hoping is purely for decorative purposes. But it doesn't bring up legitimate questions about how fragile these bad boys are.

If you were to tell me a month ago to consider buying $550 headphones I would laugh in your face. But I've come to realize that I love my music at least that much. Still, I don't want to dive right in without making sure there are no sharks in the water....

Thanks all.

[kauffee]

Sketchy, I can answer your questions...

1) The UEs make a seal, but it's different than what something like a triple flange will make. You don't get the sensation of air being forced into your ear. So while I guess a vacuum is created, it doesn't feel at all like the Etys do. Tug on your lower ear and you can break the seal to equalize pressure.

Basically, these are just a ton more comfortable than any of the universal fit. They create the seal by just sitting inside your ear... there's no pressure.

2) Apparently unless you have a very significant change in your weight, your ear canals should pretty much stay the same. You shouldn't ever need to get remolds done.

3) UE will work with you as long as it takes until you get a set that fits perfectly. You don't have to worry about this at all. Many people have had minor fit issues with the initial sets, and UE has always made sure they end up with a set that fits perfectly. This is part of the reason they're so expensive. UE says 95% of people get a perfect fit with the first set. This was the case with me. Just make sure you go to a good audiologist and follow the instructions on UE's site.

4) One of the main reasons I got the UEs was because of the durability. The hard acrylic just feels like a much more durable material. As long as you keep them in a case when you're not using them, nothing will happen. The only part that could possibly be fragile is the very end of the tips where the acrylic is thin. But honestly, they feel very durable.

[SketchySmurf]

wow, in a way i was hoping you would say that they were just as good as universals so I would just feel satisfied with my ety's and not have to part with so much scratch...: p But it seems almost too good to be true (I guess that why they call it ULTIMATE ears): I simply can't imagine a good seal without blocking up your ear canal with material. What is the ambient noise reduction like? Are you virtually deaf with them on?

Does UE have a warranty?

Finally, I think I read somewhere that the bass wasn't very precise. That it had a lot of punch on the very very low end but not much response slightly higher up. IMO, this makes for a relatively muted, muddled sound which is what I'm getting from the midrange on my etys right now...

Thanks for the insight kauffee. Very helpful.

[Possédé]

Yeah they have a 6 month warranty I think, which is pretty disapointing due to the price you pay.

[kauffee]

Your ear canal is filled with material, but since the material perfectly matches the shape of your canal, there's no real pressure on the walls of your canal. It's much much much more comfy.

When the music is on, you can't hear a thing outside. The noise reduction is even better than the Etys because the increased bass blocks out more low-end noise. However, when the music is off, you can actually hear conversations pretty well.

The bass is very precise, but it's a lot more full than what you'll be used to from the Etys. The Etys will appear to sound a lot brighter than what the UEs sound like, only because the Etys seem to emphasize the high end a little more.

[kauffee]

The warranty is one year.

[jpmac55]

Originally posted by SketchySmurf
OK, I have a case of major upgraditis. My etymotic er-61 isn't even a month old yet and I already want the UE-5c.

BUT here's what's eating my craw: they are uncomfortable as all hell. First I tried the triple flange. I followed the instructions (lifting the ear up and out, wet the tip, opening mouth, etc...) and the sensation I get is some little demon getting a bathroom plunger and forcing compressed air into my ear canal. It hurts so bad that I actually get slightly dizzy from it. And it takes soooo long to do it right. Once they are in there your ears just ache. So much so that you can't even concentrate on the music.


Sketchy - I didn't have quite the same problem with my ety 6i's but decided to try a pair of the Shure ultra soft sleeves I have from my e3's. I haven't put the ety provided sleeves back on since. Results may vary but these are much more comfortable and enjoy how they supplement the sound. It might not solve your problem but perhaps worth a try.

[SketchySmurf]

kauffee,
Just spent the weekend going to other sites, reading other opinions on the UEs...

I am getting more convinced that UEs are what I should get...

What is the difference between the 5cs and the 5 Pros? I've been hearing that some people find the 5c too "muddy" and that the low end was influencing the mid and highs...

I listen to a lot of indie, folk and rock music. When the inspiration strikes, I throw in some classical and R&B. I love bass as much as the next guy, but in no way will I sacrifice a wholesome, expressive, overall lively tonality for some extra bass. I've always associated it with inferior quality 'phones and that bass is the best way to hide deficiencies. The best way to describe it is the feeling that there's a "veil" over the music that keeps me from experiencing the sharpness, or even "depth" or 3D effect of the sound.

I might be convinced to go all the way to the UE 10s if they are significantly better than the 5cs. (I've also heard that 10s are 30% bigger and are easier to get in and out of the ear.) Quite frankly, I still don't understand the concept of how it stays in the ear without creating that annoying and painful vacuum effect that I get from the er-6i.

Oh, and one more question: I think the ipod white color is awesome looking. Any shot of it yellowing as it ages (despite being well cleaned and cared for)?

[jpmac55]

Now you folks have me thinking about a pair. Good questions, Sketchy - I have the same concerns. The other is finding a good place to make the impressions. I also wish I could get a shorter cable the 46" option. The Shure's and Eti's are great but I am not sure I would invest the same as a custome pair like the UE's. At least you know the phones are going to fit and not be problematic.

[SketchySmurf]

dude, I'm sure you've read that my problem is 65% fit, 35% sound. My ears just ache so bad from the flanges and foamies. I think the selling point was someone posting that eventually their tastes were directing them toward customs, so why bother getting an intermediate model (in my case the ety 4p or the shure e5c). that really got me to open up the wallet.

Never did I ever think in a million years I would end up spending so much on headphones, but the older I get, the more I appreciate the solitary pursuits. I guess it would be hard to justify that kind of money, but I don't have any vices or kids at the moment to weigh me down. So I thought it would be just a little splurge for myself.

Don't worry about the cords. Apparently they come off and you are easily able to replace them (and they are cheap!).

[kauffee]

As I understand it, the UE5Pro is tuned for live musicians and meant to be EQ'd by a sound engineer, whereas the UE5c is tuned for mastered music. When I talked to UE they asked me some questions and told me the 5c was the way to go.

If I had the money I'd go for the UE10Pro, but I really couldn't justify spending that much. I can't really offer any insight as to the differences, since I've only heard the UE5c and so I'd be relying on the same UE10 reviews you are. Don't make your decision on the size issue, though. The size should be relatively similar and they're both a cinch to insert and only take 2 seconds to remove. As far as the white color, that would be a good question to ask UE. Personally, I think clear or any of the see-through colors are preferable. The white seems like it would look funny in the ear.

The bass on the UE5c is full and prominant, but it doesn't drown out the highs. I, too, am very sensitive to the veiled sound. It was there in the Sennheisers that I owned and I didn't really like it. To be fair, the UE5c is not as bright or extended as my Grados, but it does seem to present a more even sound.

I don't want to come out and say, "Oh don't worry... they won't sound veiled" because it's too much of a personal preference. I couldn't listen to the ER-4P because I felt they were far too bright. I think the UE5c will sound dramatically different than Etys. But then again, every Ety user who's switched over to UE seems to be very happy. dmt1, who used to frequent these boards, was an ER-4P owner. He got the UE5c and found the bass too strong at the default EQ. Since he didn't want to have to EQ it, he ended up sending them back and going up to the UE10Pro, which he adores. So again, it's very personal and, unfortunately, you just can't be sure that you're getting the best phone for your tastes. I know that I'm love the UE5c and I can still sleep at night having spent $600 on them. For some reason, $950 seemed like a heck of a lot more money.

[SketchySmurf]

I went to a Sigur Ros concert here in Boston (Berklee School of Music) about a year and a half ago. The hall was not much larger than a very big movie theater. There was wood paneling on the wall which I assumed had a lot to do with the acoustic conductivity of the place.

It was unlike what you'd expect from any regular concert. You were seated by an usher. The audience was comprised of professors and music aesthetes. Everyone was seated and hardly a peep came from the crowd. No applause until the end. About 1,000 people quietly feasting on the aural splendor of what we had in front of us.

For some of you that may not be familiar with the band, they are an Icelandic troupe. HEAVY instrumentation. In fact, there is a string section that has its own name and goes on tour on its own...Anyway, some critics say they sound dirge-y, which is what you would say as well if you heard them on your crappy car stereo. But experiencing them live was—I am not exaggerating—a nearly religious experience. The strings would swell in and out of the melody. The bass would be warm and omnipotent like a giant jellyfish on top of the crowd. The plinkety-plink of the piano and the nearly chameleonic quality of the vocals, which I mean to say sounded as if it were borne straight from one of the instruments. Such was its effusive quality that the vocals were nearly superhuman. So sublimely in concert were all of these elements that when they all played the same note, they resounded with such force that you could almost literally feel it on your skin. This experience crescendoed with "Untitled 3" from their album "()." I was literally breathless by the end. I simply could not keep up with what I was hearing. It was like standing next to a really large mountain.

Sorry, got carried away. But the point here is, I will most likely never, ever experience such a pure, live musical event, ever. It was perfection. Now I only have the memory of that day to go on. But at the very least, I have experienced the idea of what great music SHOULD sound like. That night was the benchmark. Will the UE-5c get me close to an experience like it? I'm skeptical. But I'm willing to take that chance because its that important to me.

[kauffee]

I actually think the UE5c provides a very live-like experience for 2 reasons. First, due to the isolation, all you hear is the music... so it has that intimacy going for it. Second, the bass sounds so realistic... you can visualize the head of the kick-drum hitting the diaphragm, and it really drives the music and fills out the sound... similar to a real concert. It doesn't have that analytical nature that the Ety and even, to some degree, the Shure E3 does.

[SketchySmurf]

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to give UE a call today.

When it is all said and done, I might write my own review on here. I think mine will be a little different coming from someone who is a little more the average user who skipped a couple price point in products and made that leap of faith. I have owned less gear than you so I have less reference to go by as well...

[audiohhh]

Let me 1st say that I'm a recording engineer and have been critically listening to music now for over 10 years.

I decided to go with the UE5c's primarily for fit. I own a pair of the Ety ER4P's and was really pleased with them for about 5 minutes before my ears felt like they were in a reverse vise grip. I agree with Kauffee on the brightness of the Ety's. They are very bright but I don't think they're anemic in the bass. I used to be a BIG bass fan but now i prefer the bass to have a nice tight support of the material, and not be out in front of it. The ety's were 'ok' on the bottom. The comfort of the foam, or lack of, was what pushed me into the custom end of the market. I know that Sensaphonics can do customs for the Ety stuff but I thought I would try the UE5c based off of what I have read and asked people about.

Well, I just popped them in my ears and gave my 1st set of source material a listen. Bass......DEFINATELY not anemic. It's there live and well. I'm almost hearing a slight bump in the 250-300 area, but that could just be my getting used to them. They are a lot softer on the high end than the ety's. Not nearly as hypy. Overall I'm completely psyched. The efficiency of the in ears has left me plenty of room on my ipods amp. I'm only listening at about 55-60% level and I feel I'm pushing it at 70%. The comfort is PERFECT. I'm currently wearing them and have been for over and hour. you feel them in there but there is NO pressure. I could definately wear these all day.

One thing I CAN say is that I knew right off the bat when i put on "Into the Mystic" that I was listening to an Mp3. The detail on these was surprising. I'll give a more detailed review after I've listened for a while longer. Sooooo happy now.

Overall: From what I've read everyone complain about on this forum, and from what I hear myself, I can safely say these will answer all of your problems. And you get a nice metal case with your name on it. Thanks to DEANO at UE. You guys rock.

John Morrical
Freelance Engineer
Los Angeles CA

[jpmac55]

Originally posted by audiohhh
.


One thing I CAN say is that I knew right off the bat when i put on "Into the Mystic" that I was listening to an Mp3. The detail on these was surprising. I'll give a more detailed review after I've listened for a while longer. Sooooo happy now.



Just a comment on your choice of first play music. Mine was "Hymn to the Silence" - good to see fellow Van Morrison fans! - John