No LCD screen = Apple's blunder, shuffle's downfall. [Archive]

MysticSyphon

01-11-2005, 10:13 PM

I am fairly certain that the shuffle's popularity will never reach that of the mini or the standard iPod's. There may be an initial glut of sales due to its $99/$149 price, but the chance that it will have the sustained demand as the mini has is slim to nil. Despite its very attractive price point, the shuffle's lack of a screen will render it unable to outshine its numerous competitors, which is a shame because Apple had an opportunity here to really put a stranglehold on the market -- which can still be accomplished... by releasing a kick-### LCD remote at a reasonable price.

>> Obviously, no LCD screen, coupled with the (strange) lack of improvement in the battery department, is a giant WTF? sign.

>> Speaking of battery life, a fellow 'lounger pointed out that the absence of the battery indicator, however inaccurate it may be, will make it exceedingly hard to know when a charge is necessary. Having the player powered by an AAA battery would have not only been much more convenient, but would prolong the life of the product, as most consumers will not be wanting to shell out the $99 to replace the lithium-ion battery for a flash player.

>> It might just be me, but the lack of a screen makes the shuffle look increasingly cheap. It certainly doesn't look like it's worth $99, $149 to me. More like $39.99-$59.99, in terms of aesthetic appeal.

>> The shuffle doesn't have any glaring feature that could be marketed as a defining trait. Listening to your songs on shuffle? You've gotta be kidding me, Apple. Where's the FM tuner (iTunes sales precludes this, I suppose -- but I would KILL to listen to NPR on my iPod) -- the recording capabilities, the gapless playback?

>> Face it, navigating through 512-1K MBs of music would be an absolute nightmare without an interface. Apple is releasing a product that is more engineered towards being a pocket USB flash drive with music-playing capabilities as icing on the cake. It should be the other way around. A digital music player first, not second.

Of course, again, this would all be a moot point should Apple release a goshdarn LCD remote.

Thoughts?

djte

01-11-2005, 10:18 PM

while i agree with most of your points, i'd like to add one of my own: one of the defining points of the iPod is its incredibly simple and intuitive user interface. i figured out how to use the iPod within two minutes of picking it up the first time. the lack of an lcd screen, and thus a real user interface, makes it just like every other similarly priced flash player. there is nothing that seperates it from the herd, as with the regular iPod and the mini. i don't know how much this will hurt the shuffle, but i do think it could be detrimental. i do agree, though, that if they released an lcd remote, that would rock, but will the be able to do this without a remote port? on top of the shuffle is only a headphone jack and are they capable of that kind of data? i really don't know the answer, if someone who does wants to help out, feel free

Matrixsjd

01-11-2005, 10:18 PM

well actually there's a battery indicator light on the back of the shuffle, so you CAN tell how much battery life is left.

Blueskies505

01-11-2005, 10:20 PM

that makes sense about the battery,Its a bit odd not having any kinda screen, even my CD player has a screen :-p but who knows people might really go fo rit, i love my Ipod Photo though, i dont think twice about the cost and what not..cause its just what i wanted, maybe thats how people will think about the shuffle. Just a though.

MysticSyphon

01-11-2005, 10:29 PM

well actually there's a battery indicator light on the back of the shuffle, so you CAN tell how much battery life is left.

Duly noted, but nonetheless, this is still a step back. A light is even less accurate than the battery meter on the mini/iPod. There is no reason to justify why Apple didn't just make the shuffle's power source a battery. Heck, iRiver's flash players get 40 hours on a single AA battery. The fact that the shuffle's battery life is worse than the iPod photo's is absolutely inexcusable. I honestly had to blink when I read that it was going to be not only a rechargable lithium-ion battery, but that it would only have a 12-hr life... of course, that still is only slightly more shocking than Apple choosing to make the shuffle screen-less, which I will stress again, makes this new product a USB flash drive with DAP capabilities on the side, rather than the other way around.

MysticSyphon

01-11-2005, 10:34 PM

one of the defining points of the iPod is its incredibly simple and intuitive user interface. i figured out how to use the iPod within two minutes of picking it up the first time. the lack of an lcd screen, and thus a real user interface, makes it just like every other similarly priced flash player. there is nothing that seperates it from the herd, as with the regular iPod and the mini. i don't know how much this will hurt the shuffle, but i do think it could be detrimental. i do agree, though, that if they released an lcd remote, that would rock, but will the be able to do this without a remote port? on top of the shuffle is only a headphone jack and are they capable of that kind of data? i really don't know the answer, if someone who does wants to help out, feel free

Excellent point. The iPod's UI is, in all honesty, an iconic interface. Nothing like seeing that oh-so-readable Chicago font; it really is a spectacle to interact with. Interesting that the shuffle does not have a remote port, which, I am sad to say, may be the final nail in the coffin, as I suppose Apple has no such plans to release an LCD remote for it. Oh the irony. A backlit remote with two to six lines worth of text would propel the shuffle to the top of the flash market. Who knows, though -- perhaps it'll plug into the docking port? One can only hope.

jngrossmann

01-11-2005, 10:35 PM

I absolutely and totally agree with mysticsyphon - I think that the device will never really take off, and that it looks more like it is a thumb drive with dap than it looks like a dedicated music player.

EDIT: everybody makes grammar mistakes sometimes lol

dcmacnut

01-11-2005, 10:48 PM

I think the iPod shuffle will do outstanding work in the market it is designed for. Each version of the iPod has a niche to fill, and their own unique user base. I personally have no use for the iPod photo or U2 iPod, but people are buying them. If you prefer the mini or bigger iPod over the shuffle, so be it. Steve Jobs flat out said the iPod shuffle is for people who like to listen to their songs on shuffle, which apparently most already do. The small size and lack of screen won't hamper sales, because I would imagine most people would only load it with their favorite songs, so will always come across a song they like listening to. Besides, who is going to constantly change songs and be able to read a screen while jogging, skiing, etc?

My two cents.

Chris

DilbertLand

01-11-2005, 10:50 PM

I really agree with you MysticSyphon. I was looking for a good way to sum up my feelings of disappointment and you hit the nail. I was hoping for a nice flash based MP3 player with a wonderful user interface (and great battery life) and instead got a really nice thumb drive that also plays some music.

robhimself

01-11-2005, 11:10 PM

I agree with all these points...but no one has mentioned the advertising.

Although no commercials or anything for the shuffle has come out yet, the news of its release was on the front page of yahoo.com and a bunch of other news websites. Last time I checked, there weren't any flash-based mp3 players that made headlines this big.

countless TV spots/commercials for this bad boy will be inevitable

lilsuprano

01-11-2005, 11:16 PM

Blueskies505 your sig is just a little big....lol

Eric

i_am_petro

01-11-2005, 11:50 PM

other than looking like a pregnancy test, i think the ipod shuffle will do well. it would make a great gift -- just fill it with songs and give the ultimate mix cd. who wouldn't love that? also, at $99, i'm sure we'll start seeing them on sale and on ebay for much less.

MysticSyphon

01-12-2005, 12:55 AM

I honestly still don't get how in the heck Apple failed to push the battery life on the shuffle to at least 15 hours, if not 20 or 25. It's almost as if they were trying to make this the worst possible device we could have expected.

NavySEAL6

01-12-2005, 01:00 AM

Apple is releasing a product that is more engineered towards being a pocket USB flash drive with music-playing capabilities as icing on the cake. It should be the other way around. A digital music player first, not second.

I think apple is selling this thing wrong. They are encouraging it as an iPod when it just isnt. Now say it was----"Solve all your office-to-home problems with this brand new (insert new name). While transporting files with this flash drive you can ALSO listen to music. thats really what it is. but still i think this product will apeal to people who listen to music during working out only, cuz do u ever use the interface while working out? no. so therefore the lack of screen will not effect them as greatly

canyonblue737

01-12-2005, 01:26 AM

Apple really HIT A HOME RUN WITH THE IPOD SHUFFLE. You guys have it ALL wrong... a low cost iPod of $99 that has a LCD screen etc. would butcher sales of higher priced models, even if the capacity was far less. This new model is keyed to three groups of folks and for them it hits a home run....

1) people who simply would never spend more than $100 on a music player but want to use iTunes, iTunes music store, and have the elegance of an "iPod."

2) people who want to play sports and excersize with a much lighter, more rugged, and shock proof iPod that can again play music from the iTunes store and have elegance.

3) people who already own a iPod, would never think of replacing it for a screenless iPod but would love the opportunity to have a SECOND iPod which could be a "portable playlist" for those times (the gym etc.) that it was useful.

Apple is brillant... everyone who is complaining that the shuffle is failure is exactly the type of person that would have bought it if it was like a higher end model... AND THEN NOT BOUGHT THE HIGHER END MODEL! That would have been a disaster for Apple. Instead they target folks like me who needed something different, light, and extra to my already excellent 3G model.

dgstinner

01-12-2005, 01:41 AM

If I did get a shuffle (and I am thinking about it), I wouldn't mind the lack of a screen. I know almost every song in my library (3000+) just on the first few seconds. One thing I would never have to worry about since there isn't a screen, is cracking/breaking the screen; which would make it useless. I like the idea of holding down the play/pause button to put the device on hold. I can see the center button on the 5G iPods doing the same thing. After all, they incorporated the click wheel from the mini into the 4G, why not incorporate something from the shuffle into the 5G iPod and 2G mini?

PeterPumpkin

01-12-2005, 01:46 AM

I doubt a remote will ever be released for it either. The purpose of a remote is to allow the user to keep the bulkier unit in your pocket or bag. If the shuffle did have a remote, it will likely be the same size and weight as and this would kinda be pointless, other than adding a screen. Apple would be better off just releasing one with a screen.

Having said all this, i think the shuffle will be a huge hit. Remeber that the mini had alot of critisism when it was first released as well. I have no intentions of getting one though, just as i had, and still have no intentions of getting a mini. Think canyonblue737 said it well.

allanmarcus

01-12-2005, 01:58 AM

My 13 year old son has wanted an iPod for a while now. We were reluctant to let him get one. The iPod Shuffle (IPS?) is a great compromise! Moreover, as soon as he saw it, he "had to have one!" First, the coolness of it. Second, he doesn't have that much music (yet, I know). Third, the price. Fourth, it's rugged.

As for me, I'll get one for the 30 minutes I spend at the gym every day, and the ride to work. Oh, I have an iPod 20 and I love it, but the IPS will be perfect for the gym.

Battery life? Who cares. I'll just plug it in every couple/three nights. I'll probably reload songs on it often, and every day I'll reload NPR's morning edition. 12 hours is plenty.

Oh, don't discount the ability of the IPS to play iTunes purchased music, and sync with iTunes. Nothing else does that, and it will be a BIG selling point.

Competition? Try and find a named brand 512 player for $99. heck, even the no named brand one for $99! Heck, Virgin just released a new 256 player (also no screen) for $99. They do have a 5GB player that looks interesting for $250 (mac software soon, they say).

Virgin's 128 and 256 players (http://www.virginelectronics.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/VirginElectronics/en_US/-/USD/ViewProduct-Start;sid=W8vpU9y1cJfpUZ1R_Xsp-7WgmBntWR9nX8E=?CatalogCategoryID=&ProductID=UkGsHgcawO0AAAD_vzp6F4jB)

Virgin's 5 GB player (http://www.virginelectronics.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/VirginElectronics/en_US/-/USD/ViewProduct-Start;sid=W8vpU9y1cJfpUZ1R_Xsp-7WgmBntWR9nX8E=?CatalogCategoryID=&ProductID=zN.sHgcaJqoAAAD_Zjp6F4jB)

So, to sum up. Everyone said the iPod was stupid was proved wrong. Clearly the MP# player, in general, is a hit. Apple, having an entry at all the price points, has done the right thing.

Next4

01-12-2005, 02:07 AM

Although iWant to get a iPod shuffle, iHad one dissapointment:

If you can remember way back when Apple patentiened (sp sorry)
a process to place LED's on a case to get a color effect. The word
charmelion rings a bell for me. This charmelion thing could display text, visualizers, and even pics on the object.

I thought this was a great iDea and was perfect for the shuffle.

Wouldn't it be cool to have a visualizer around the case of a shuffle?
iThink so.

just my .03cents.

-NeXt4

jessica.

01-12-2005, 02:48 AM

First, I had a mini celebration today for some reason over the news from Apple. I think I'm hooked.

Anyway, the Shuffle. I love the design and here is my take on it.

My boss went to the Apple store today to get one. I do not know if she got one, but she went there to try. She is going to use it at the gym and sell her Rio or whatever the darn thing is. She does have an ipod but here are the selling points:

240 songs on shuffle = fine. Working out you shouldn't be messing with your ipod.
240 will make you choose wisely. Knowing that she is going to be using while working out, she doesn't care about play lists and such. She wants to work out, not play around with her ipod.
If it is stolen it is $100, not $400. Kind of takes away some of the sting.
Smaller than the ipod. She wants to use the ipod at the gym but between theft from within the lockers and then the size on her arm, she was a bit worried. She is getting this, the case and the strap for her arm.

I think this markets to the world of runners a like. I swear this is something I would consider if I were working out. I may consider it if I am bored one day. But not before I get the PB g4. ;)

I think Apple took a step into a direction to market to those few people who say that the price of the mini, 20, 40, 60 is too much and to those people who do not care for the totally techno items and just want something simple.
This is it. I am happy about this.

ToadX

01-12-2005, 04:02 AM

I think the iPod shuffle will be somewhat successful. Too successful and will decrease the sales of iPod minis and iPods. Not successful enough to take over the market share of flash based music players. I agree that the new iPod shuffle is pretty expensive for what you get. I think the Mac mini is pretty expensive also.

ginalee

01-12-2005, 04:08 AM

All you people predicting the shuffle's sales demise are reminded of the same initial prediction for the mini a year ago ;)

We'll all have to wait and see...

btw I think it will sell like mad

d0h1

01-12-2005, 04:29 AM

Its one long stick, with a small control at one side. I don't see why they can't put a small screen to at least show a line of text next the to control - but i guess you would be using it horizontally.
it looks too plain with a small control at the top end

Also, i thought it would have been great if the removable part was the battery (cap for USB) like Creatives Flash player. and only 12hours battery life?

Maybe they limit the battery so the ipod would last less than 3 years so you'd buy a new one; as you know, ipods get updated almost once a year!

onebigtrip

01-12-2005, 04:57 AM

i think the fact that you have such few songs you wouldn't really have any you hate and because of that you'd never really need to skip a song and seeing as its always on shuffle you never have to experience the same sequence twice. Because of this it seems that you would never really have a need to touch the shuffle therefor a screen would be less useful. Also i'm sure most people can remember the names of 240 of their favourite songs. the only issue i see is if you're listening to an album.

-James

DilbertLand

01-12-2005, 05:04 AM

The more I look at it, the more it looks like they just dusted off a 3 or 4-year old design they originally shelved for a 32Mb flash player and updated it to have 512Mb/1Gb. (I don't actually know this - just looks like something they could have made a long time ago)

Tunster

01-12-2005, 05:23 AM

The only use this Shuffle thing has is a poking stick! How can you enjoy listening to your music when you don't have control? And even be stupid enough to buy it with no screen or functionality to this device?

It's another expensive USB Pen Drive with a headphone socket. Cheap and no originallity from the guys at Apple HQ again. There are far better alternatives than this to give you better choice and control. This another "stupid" guy device, can't believe Apple thing our generation are getting less techincal...............they're wrong, so therefore they're going backwards and the only way they could sell this device is crafty advertising.

DPUMA8

01-12-2005, 06:21 AM

Isn't buying anything over 512MB kind of overkill? Do you really need 1000 songs on hand for whatever you are doing? I think that the 512 mb sounds perfect to me. 120 songs? More than enough. I don't even have 50 songs that I can listen to over and over again.

Edge_3

01-12-2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by i_am_petro
other than looking like a pregnancy test, i think the ipod shuffle will do well. it would make a great gift -- just fill it with songs and give the ultimate mix cd. who wouldn't love that? also, at $99, i'm sure we'll start seeing them on sale and on ebay for much less.

I can't wait to see that thread title pop up...

"MY WIFE PEED ON MY SHUFFLE!!! CAN IT BE SAVED?!"

lmao... :D :p

Cyburn

01-12-2005, 08:32 AM

Without a LCD screen, it just looks like a USB Flash drive.

paperinacup

01-12-2005, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by DPUMA8
Isn't buying anything over 512MB kind of overkill? Do you really need 1000 songs on hand for whatever you are doing? I think that the 512 mb sounds perfect to me. 120 songs? More than enough. I don't even have 50 songs that I can listen to over and over again.

I couldnt live with just 512 mb. Why go back to your computer everytime u want a different song. I have 63 gb of mp3s and aacs. No way 512 is gonna cut it. I own audio books that big.

supperman

01-12-2005, 12:44 PM

Do a search with Pricegrabber, and you can find a Creative Muvo N200 512MB for between $108-115 (depending on the color), or a 1GB version for $170. For a little more, you can get an LCD screen, FM tuner, voice/FM/line-in recording, 15hrs battery life and looks to be even smaller.

The only redeeming feature about the iPod shuffle is that it looks sweet. Have to decide whether you want form over function.

greedo

01-12-2005, 01:00 PM

A lot of people need to go back in this thread and read what canyonblue737 wrote. That person is exactly right. Apple are going to sell LOADS and LOADS and LOADS of iPod Shuffles. Think about it. It's cheap, it's robust, it's good for running/exercise, the fact that there's no screen means it is SIMPLE to use -- it will appeal to people who want simplicity and don't care about making complicated playlists or storing/viewing notes or contacts or anything other than listening to their favorite music.

The ONLY thing Apple didn't address is by providing over-the-ear ear phones to cater for runners/exercisers. I know they purposely didn't do it because the current white iPod ear buds are iconic, but you really do need different ear buds for running.

The "Shuffle" principle is a gimmick but it's a damn good piece of marketing AND market research.

It doesn't have a screen on purpose. For those that hate it doesn't have a screen, why are you complaining? That's what you've got a regular iPod for. The iPod Shuffle serves a purpose and it's going to become extremely popular.

Above all else, this is a huge, huge marketing ploy by Apple. One of the many benefits of the Shuffle will be that once people buy it and like it, they will become impressed and brand loyal to Apple. Some percentage of Shuffle owners will then start to buy a 'regular' Apple iPod and some even will buy a Mac.

It's marketing, marketing, marketing, and you've got to tip your hat to Apple for being aggressive in a lucrative market.

dadeef

01-12-2005, 01:44 PM

Ipod Shuffle=Most Expensive Tampon ever.

I think I'll be getting one though.

SWiTCH

01-12-2005, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by MysticSyphon
Duly noted, but nonetheless, this is still a step back. A light is even less accurate than the battery meter on the mini/iPod. There is no reason to justify why Apple didn't just make the shuffle's power source a battery.

Actually there is a good reason but since I'm still under NDA, I can't really say what it is. But, trust me when I tell you that Apple did a smart thing here with the battery.

Travis

01-12-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by canyonblue737
Apple really HIT A HOME RUN WITH THE IPOD SHUFFLE. You guys have it ALL wrong... a low cost iPod of $99 that has a LCD screen etc. would butcher sales of higher priced models, even if the capacity was far less. This new model is keyed to three groups of folks and for them it hits a home run....

1) people who simply would never spend more than $100 on a music player but want to use iTunes, iTunes music store, and have the elegance of an "iPod."

2) people who want to play sports and excersize with a much lighter, more rugged, and shock proof iPod that can again play music from the iTunes store and have elegance.

3) people who already own a iPod, would never think of replacing it for a screenless iPod but would love the opportunity to have a SECOND iPod which could be a "portable playlist" for those times (the gym etc.) that it was useful.

Apple is brillant... everyone who is complaining that the shuffle is failure is exactly the type of person that would have bought it if it was like a higher end model... AND THEN NOT BOUGHT THE HIGHER END MODEL! That would have been a disaster for Apple. Instead they target folks like me who needed something different, light, and extra to my already excellent 3G model.

exactly. you made every point i wanted to make.

if they had put a screen on the ipod shuffle it would've canabalized sales of the other ipods. you can't give people everything they want on cheaper models or they won't buy the more expensive product.

also i remember when the imac first came out and people were talking about how the lack of a floppy drive would be the demise of apple. haha! everytime apple does anything that is unexpected it's automatically the demise of apple.. until people get use to it.

also you can't beat the price. has anyone seen a 1gb flash player for less than $150. i looked buy couldn't find one.. they're all around $250.

i'm buying one for when i go to the gym, short trips, etc. it's not a replacement but it will come in handy.

baggss

01-12-2005, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Tunster
The only use this Shuffle thing has is a poking stick! How can you enjoy listening to your music when you don't have control? And even be stupid enough to buy it with no screen or functionality to this device?

It's another expensive USB Pen Drive with a headphone socket. Cheap and no originallity from the guys at Apple HQ again. There are far better alternatives than this to give you better choice and control. This another "stupid" guy device, can't believe Apple thing our generation are getting less techincal...............they're wrong, so therefore they're going backwards and the only way they could sell this device is crafty advertising.

Stop being a bonehead. Just becasue you are unable to see any use for this device does not make it crap. Based on your profile and ignorant first post I can only assume you came here to troll....

jhollington

01-12-2005, 04:15 PM

Actually, I live with somebody who would be the quintessential iPod Shuffle user -- my wife. I bought her a 20Gb 4G (and even then the only reason I went with that instead of the Mini was for accessory compatibility and the fact that I figured I might as well put my entire library on her iPod as well).

However, after having watched her listen to the exact same playlist for the past two months, I'm starting to wish the iPod Shuffle had been around back then.... :) Her iPod listening style is to put the headphones in her ears and press PLAY. After that she never even looks at the screen...

Remember that not everybody who uses an MP3 player is a die-hard music listener or techno-lover. As usual, iPod has released a device geared toward the mass-market consumer, and for that reason I firmly believe that these things are going to sell like hotcakes.

DPUMA8

01-12-2005, 04:35 PM

I am an example. I don't have an ipod but the shuffle looks REALLY good to me. I don't need 1000 songs at one time. 120 is more than enough and small enough for exercise.

DilbertLand

01-12-2005, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by SWiTCH
Actually there is a good reason but since I'm still under NDA, I can't really say what it is. But, trust me when I tell you that Apple did a smart thing here with the battery.
Was it a voltage issue?

[zerophase]

01-12-2005, 04:51 PM

yeah no screen i think is just stupid.. i didn't really like the design and was disapointed.

aluren

01-12-2005, 05:54 PM

i also think that steve jobs hit it well with the ipod shuffle. here's a couple reasons:

1. price - at $99 or $149, it is a very affordable player. affordable means a bigger market demand. people like me, who are hesitant about spending $300 on an ipod, will have the mini or the shuffle to consider, and therefore apple has effectively drag me into their product. now in order to be affordable, there must be some sacrifices... therefore the complaints of only 12 hour battery life or no lcd screen pops up.

2. itunes - if you read the apple shuffle's website, they're promoting heavily on the "shuffle" factor. apple seems to be using itunes as its competitive advantage in the flash player market. i think the shuffle feature works well. now i don't really need to bring 40 gb of music along with me wherever i go. just shuffle some track and use it for the day, then refresh a new list for tomorrow.

3. the ipod name - ipod is now a cultural icon. people everywhere has accepted ipod's success and are jumping on the bandwagon. (including myself) and since flash player is ipod's biggest competitors, introducing an ipod flash player will easily take over that market. (and the reaons that being are explained above)
the shuffle also appeals to people that already owns an ipod, so you got an established customer base to target, plus an additional new one.

personally, 12 hours of battery life is good enough for one day. just make sure you recharge it every nite and you're fine. the lack of a screen is indirectly addressed by the shuffle feature. the purpose of the ipod shuffle is NOT so that you can carry your entire music library with you. once you get this feature, you'll understand that a screen is not necessary. in the end, i think the ipod shuffle will do extremely well.

nice job, jobs.

DilbertLand

01-12-2005, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by aluren
ipod is now a cultural icon. people everywhere has accepted ipod's success and are jumping on the bandwagon. (including myself) and since flash player is ipod's biggest competitors, introducing an ipod flash player will easily take over that market. (and the reaons that being are explained above)...in the end, i think the ipod shuffle will do extremely well.
Someone over on fatwallet.com is claiming that they called Apple to cancel their order on the 1Gig verison and they offered him a $10 discount not to cancel (and he still cancelled - and on top of that he was already getting the educational discount). That doesn't sound like a good start for a product that was just released yesterday....(and is going to "easily take over the market")

davehart

01-12-2005, 07:30 PM

it seems a main reason that the ipod shuffle would do well has escaped people - mainly dissappointed with the physicalities of the flash player.

itunes and the music store is far superior than any of its competing jukebox software. forget about the lcd screen(lack thereof) yada yada. It is perfect for all...including current ipod owners as some members already mentioned. People can now own an ipod and is within reach of most people.

itunes for me is the main reason i got an ipod! Airport express is another reason!
im now considering getting an ipod photo 60gb for storage/car and then the shuffle for college and exercise.

-James

01-12-2005, 07:43 PM

I personally disagree with the title of this thread and think the iPod shuffle will be a big hit...eventually. It's going to need time to catch on. But you just know there are going to be loads of people who buy it for the iPod name.

noryen

01-12-2005, 08:23 PM

The lack of a screen doesn't bother me at all. It's actually a testament to how easy the IPS is to use.

When I had a Gen 1 iPod, one of the biggest praises for the unit was that it could be controlled easily from inside of your pocket without looking at the screen. Everyone loved it for this.... then when the Gen 3's came out people cried about losing that ability, which of course was re-introduced in the Gen 4's.

The IPS is not an iPod replacement, but it's designed to fill a niche in the market. I think the IPS will appeal to 2 kinds of people, either someone who already owns a regular iPod and wants something smaller to complement it, or someone who's new to MP3 players who wants to buy a low priced unit.

Personally, I will be getting one to complement my 4th Gen iPod.

iMacc

01-12-2005, 08:37 PM

ipod shuffle will sell in boat loads because of one simple reason.

Your getting an ipod for less than ??100/$100.

btlaxripper

01-12-2005, 08:57 PM

the shuffle doesn't really look like an ipod. It's just a flash drive with some buttons on the end of it. I really think apple created a debackle on this one.

When I heard the announcement of a flash drive iPod, I envisioned a normal looking iPod mini with a little compartment the popped open to put the flash drive. Like the flash "stick" mp3 players sony makes/used to make.

I think that would've been better.

iMacc

01-12-2005, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by btlaxripper
I really think apple created a ''debackle''

Isn't that a type of small insect......?

FlyingJenny

01-12-2005, 09:03 PM

I think the shuffle would be a great companion to my 20 GB iPod. I currently use my ipod in an armband on my daily hour long (or more) power walks. It is kind of bulky, I can't easily see the screen while it is on my arm, and I listen to the same playlist called "walking songs" on shuffle every day. With the new iPod shuffle I could do all this with a much smaller player and not subject my 20 GB to all that motion and potential damage. I think it is a great new product.

niki0619

01-12-2005, 09:28 PM

As for the issue of haveing no battery indicator and and LED light instead, that's no different than the LED indicators on the GameBoy. I'd imagine it would have a "green-yellow-red" sequence to let you know how charged the battery is. I don't agree that having a AAA battery would be smarter and more useful because, not only will it add bulkiness, but you can't guarrantee how secure the battery case will be. Especially since the IPS is designed for it's "ruggedness" I'd imagine that a lot of aggressive movement (like playing basketball) would probably cause the battery to pop out. And besides, I'd rather have a recharable internal battery than having to forever buy alkaline batteries (one of the reasons why i got an ipod to begin with... I was spending way too much on AA's).

I admit, the first time I saw the IPS, I was a little weirded out because there is no screen, but after reading up on it, there really isn't any need for one (I guess for those few obsessive compulsive folks who HAVE to see what song they're listening too). My feeling is, most people probably don't have correct ID tags on their mp3 anyways... the IPS eliminates the need to correctly identify what you're listening to.

I think the new ipod is a nifty idea... it's a really simple way of carrying around music. And I'm sure, like most people have already said, most are probably going to get one just for the sake of having an ipod.

supperman

01-12-2005, 09:39 PM

Isn't it kind of sad that people will buy it just because it's a cheap iPod? Does Apple have to rely on the name to sell its products now? What happened to giving customers good value for money? There's really nothing special about the iPod shuffle except that it's a cheap iPod. But yet some people stampede over others to get it.

skinner

01-12-2005, 09:40 PM

I disagree... I think that parents are going to be buying them by the boatload for their kids. Screen or not, these things will sell like hot cakes. Do you guys ever use the shuffle feature on the 4th gen iPods? I do all of the time and I need not see the screen to know that the song that is playing sux. Then I hit the track advance button and 'walah' a song I like comes on. Shuffle is the coolest. My buddy has a 3rd gen and is thinking about getting either a 4th gen or a shuffle just for this feature alone. In my mind that may be a little overboard but the shuffle feature is really cool anyways.

-James

01-12-2005, 09:43 PM

Do any UK users know if the iPod shuffle is available at the Regent Street Apple store yet? Waiting two weeks for it to be delivered sounds lie torture to me, and i'd really rather just go and pick it up there.

MysticSyphon

01-12-2005, 09:56 PM

DilbertLand

01-12-2005, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by niki0619
I'd rather have a recharable internal battery than having to forever buy alkaline batteries (one of the reasons why i got an ipod to begin with... I was spending way too much on AA's).
Yeah a non-replaceable recharable battery from Apple is soooo much better :rolleyes: (I just get to throw the entire player away in a couple of years...)

yinyang

01-12-2005, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by supperman
Isn't it kind of sad that people will buy it just because it's a cheap iPod? Does Apple have to rely on the name to sell its products now? What happened to giving customers good value for money? There's really nothing special about the iPod shuffle except that it's a cheap iPod. But yet some people stampede over others to get it.

any company would love to be able to sell it's products purely based on it's branding, and lots do - merc, gucci, gap to name a few (merc 'just' make cars, gucci 'just' make shoes, gap 'just' make clothes).

customers' perceptions of value for money is purely subjective, but you can be certain that more than enough people will fork out US$99 for the 512 shuffle because it seems like excellent value for money for a well designed flash based music player, and by well designed, i mean that it does what it says it will do very well.

MeTaL

01-13-2005, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by jhollington
Actually, I live with somebody who would be the quintessential iPod Shuffle user -- my wife. I bought her a 20Gb 4G (and even then the only reason I went with that instead of the Mini was for accessory compatibility and the fact that I figured I might as well put my entire library on her iPod as well).

However, after having watched her listen to the exact same playlist for the past two months, I'm starting to wish the iPod Shuffle had been around back then.... :) Her iPod listening style is to put the headphones in her ears and press PLAY. After that she never even looks at the screen...

Remember that not everybody who uses an MP3 player is a die-hard music listener or techno-lover. As usual, iPod has released a device geared toward the mass-market consumer, and for that reason I firmly believe that these things are going to sell like hotcakes.

I'll get you a shuffle or a coupla flash drives. want to trade for the real ipod ?

MeTaL

01-13-2005, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by yinyang
any company would love to be able to sell it's products purely based on it's branding, and lots do - merc, gucci, gap to name a few (merc 'just' make cars, gucci 'just' make shoes, gap 'just' make clothes).

customers' perceptions of value for money is purely subjective, but you can be certain that more than enough people will fork out US$99 for the 512 shuffle because it seems like excellent value for money for a well designed flash based music player, and by well designed, i mean that it does what it says it will do very well.

not any more.... apple was a brand ... after mass marketing that ceases to exist... with the shuffle and imac mini... they are changing their strategy and branding...

once everyone can get one... its not "tasty" anymore...

Fluxpod

01-13-2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by DilbertLand
Someone over on fatwallet.com is claiming that they called Apple to cancel their order on the 1Gig verison and they offered him a $10 discount not to cancel (and he still cancelled - and on top of that he was already getting the educational discount). That doesn't sound like a good start for a product that was just released yesterday....(and is going to "easily take over the market")

Yeah, because we all know that one guy on fatwallet reflects how well the Shuffle will do. :rolleyes:

We should be happy that Apple is a cool enough company to offer a discount like that so quick.

Travis

01-13-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by DilbertLand
Someone over on fatwallet.com is claiming that they called Apple to cancel their order on the 1Gig verison and they offered him a $10 discount not to cancel (and he still cancelled - and on top of that he was already getting the educational discount). That doesn't sound like a good start for a product that was just released yesterday....(and is going to "easily take over the market")

anyone who has ever bought directly from apple knows that they can be (and often are) generous with discounts. it has nothing to do with how well or how poorly a product is selling. if you speak to a real person chances are you're going to get some kind of "special discount." at least that has been my experience.
.

Travis

01-13-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by DilbertLand
Someone over on fatwallet.com is claiming that they called Apple to cancel their order on the 1Gig verison and they offered him a $10 discount not to cancel (and he still cancelled - and on top of that he was already getting the educational discount). That doesn't sound like a good start for a product that was just released yesterday....(and is going to "easily take over the market")

anyone who has ever bought directly from apple knows that they can be (and often are) generous with discounts. it has nothing to do with how well or how poorly a product is selling. if you speak to a real person chances are you're going to get some kind of "special discount." at least that has been my experience.
.

meandmypod

01-13-2005, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by DilbertLand
Someone over on fatwallet.com is claiming that they called Apple to cancel their order on the 1Gig verison and they offered him a $10 discount not to cancel (and he still cancelled - and on top of that he was already getting the educational discount). That doesn't sound like a good start for a product that was just released yesterday....(and is going to "easily take over the market")

That would be impossible since you can???t use the educational or any other discount to buy the iPod shuffle. :D :D :D :D

shervon

01-13-2005, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by allanmarcus
My 13 year old son has wanted an iPod for a while now. We were reluctant to let him get one. The iPod Shuffle (IPS?) is a great compromise! Moreover, as soon as he saw it, he "had to have one!" First, the coolness of it. Second, he doesn't have that much music (yet, I know). Third, the price. Fourth, it's rugged.

As for me, I'll get one for the 30 minutes I spend at the gym every day, and the ride to work. Oh, I have an iPod 20 and I love it, but the IPS will be perfect for the gym.

Battery life? Who cares. I'll just plug it in every couple/three nights. I'll probably reload songs on it often, and every day I'll reload NPR's morning edition. 12 hours is plenty.

Oh, don't discount the ability of the IPS to play iTunes purchased music, and sync with iTunes. Nothing else does that, and it will be a BIG selling point.

Competition? Try and find a named brand 512 player for $99. heck, even the no named brand one for $99! Heck, Virgin just released a new 256 player (also no screen) for $99. They do have a 5GB player that looks interesting for $250 (mac software soon, they say).

Virgin's 128 and 256 players (http://www.virginelectronics.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/VirginElectronics/en_US/-/USD/ViewProduct-Start;sid=W8vpU9y1cJfpUZ1R_Xsp-7WgmBntWR9nX8E=?CatalogCategoryID=&ProductID=UkGsHgcawO0AAAD_vzp6F4jB)

Virgin's 5 GB player (http://www.virginelectronics.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/VirginElectronics/en_US/-/USD/ViewProduct-Start;sid=W8vpU9y1cJfpUZ1R_Xsp-7WgmBntWR9nX8E=?CatalogCategoryID=&ProductID=zN.sHgcaJqoAAAD_Zjp6F4jB)

So, to sum up. Everyone said the iPod was stupid was proved wrong. Clearly the MP# player, in general, is a hit. Apple, having an entry at all the price points, has done the right thing.

sounds like you are going to get 2 iShuffle... i knew Apple is on the right track to conquer the world...

what's more, if the same procedure apples for iShuffle, if your iShuffle is spoilt, they will replace with a new or refurbished set...

mtnagel

01-13-2005, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Travis

also you can't beat the price. has anyone seen a 1gb flash player for less than $150. i looked buy couldn't find one.. they're all around $250.
I don't know if someone has addressed this, but I've seen other people mention how cheap it is compared to other players, well check out this - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=384004&affiliate=pricegrabber. A SanDisk 1gb mp3 player for $150. AND it has an FM tuner, an LCD screen, and a replaceable AAA battery!! Much better than the Shuffle if you ask me. I'm sure you could even find it cheaper, but I trust zipzoomfly and I trust SanDisk as I have 2 compact flash cards and a memory stick from them that have all been solid.

shervon

01-13-2005, 02:35 PM

DilbertLand

01-13-2005, 02:46 PM

mtnagel

01-13-2005, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by DilbertLand
And even better MP3 deals crop up all the time with rebates, specials, etc. With Apple, everybody sells their products at about the same price...retail. :( Right, but like I said, I trust zipzoomfly. More so than some others I've never heard of on pricegrabber.com, but may be cheaper.

And, I actually got my 4th Gen 40 gig iPod from Amazon for $370 w/ free shipping. They were at $399 for awhile, but I knew I wanted it before x-mas, so I checked around the beginning of Dec. and that's when it was that cheap, but unfortunately, it took about 2 weeks before I got it, but it was $30 cheaper than anywhere else, and if I would have bought it at the Apple store, I would have had to pay an extra $28 in tax. Soon after I placed my order on amazon, I noticed that it was back up to $400 with "item ships within 24 hours", which I thought was weird.

evilgoat23

01-13-2005, 03:28 PM

Now I know that some people will buy the shuffle because it's inexpensive. I'm getting one because I'd rather not use my other HDD players when I run and workout.

dcmacnut

01-13-2005, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by mtnagel
I don't know if someone has addressed this, but I've seen other people mention how cheap it is compared to other players, well check out this - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=384004&affiliate=pricegrabber. A SanDisk 1gb mp3 player for $150. AND it has an FM tuner, an LCD screen, and a replaceable AAA battery!! Much better than the Shuffle if you ask me.
If someone desperately wants a LCD screen or compatibility with WMA, I'm sure they'd go for this one.

But read the specs. Same capacity, yes, but SanDisk plays down its storage. Only "60 MP3s at 128kbps"? Shuffle is 240 songs at the same bit rate (AAC and MP3 are exactly the same size at the same bitrate). Also, it weighs twice as much as the shuffle, is almost three times as thick, and you need to haul a USB cable around with you.

I'm just saying is that for the price, style, size, and brand recognition of "ooh...iPod" means the shuffle is going to the player to beat. All other MP3 players on the market were stagnating until the iPod came along and actually forced companies to innovate.

mtnagel

01-13-2005, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by dcmacnut
If someone desperately wants a LCD screen or compatibility with WMA, I'm sure they'd go for this one.

But read the specs. Same capacity, yes, but SanDisk plays down its storage. Only "60 MP3s at 128kbps"? Shuffle is 240 songs at the same bit rate (AAC and MP3 are exactly the same size at the same bitrate). Also, it weighs twice as much as the shuffle, is almost three times as thick, and you need to haul a USB cable around with you.

I'm just saying is that for the price, style, size, and brand recognition of "ooh...iPod" means the shuffle is going to the player to beat. All other MP3 players on the market were stagnating until the iPod came along and actually forced companies to innovate. Obviously, zipzoomfly made an error. If you look at the 256 and 512 ones, it says the same thing. If you divide 1 gig by 256 you get 4. If you multiply 4 by 60 songs you get 240. Hmmm... sounds similar to the 1 gig iPod shuffle.

By my calculation, I could get about 200 songs on the 1 gig one because I have some 128, 160, and 192 kbps mp3's and each songs averages about 5 mb.

Interestingly, zipzoomfly now has lowered the price by $10 for the 1 gig one. It's only $139 now and you get an LCD screen, FM tuner, and replaceable AAA battery. I'm very tempted to get the SanDisk one. Now an even better deal.

It is a little bigger (actually it's shorter), but at 1.4 oz, I don't think I'd call it heavy or big.

evilgoat23

01-13-2005, 06:57 PM

Mine says:

On or before
01/28/2005

evilgoat23

01-13-2005, 06:58 PM

Oops wrong thread :)

SoLongToLove

01-13-2005, 09:43 PM

well i think the ipod shuffle would be to big to work out with with a screen

cpn.luckycharms

01-13-2005, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by MysticSyphon
I am fairly certain that the shuffle's popularity will never reach that of the mini or the standard iPod's. There may be an initial glut of sales due to its $99/$149 price, but the chance that it will have the sustained demand as the mini has is slim to nil. Despite its very attractive price point, the shuffle's lack of a screen will render it unable to outshine its numerous competitors, which is a shame because Apple had an opportunity here to really put a stranglehold on the market -- which can still be accomplished... by releasing a kick-### LCD remote at a reasonable price.

>> Obviously, no LCD screen, coupled with the (strange) lack of improvement in the battery department, is a giant WTF? sign.

>> Speaking of battery life, a fellow 'lounger pointed out that the absence of the battery indicator, however inaccurate it may be, will make it exceedingly hard to know when a charge is necessary. Having the player powered by an AAA battery would have not only been much more convenient, but would prolong the life of the product, as most consumers will not be wanting to shell out the $99 to replace the lithium-ion battery for a flash player.

>> It might just be me, but the lack of a screen makes the shuffle look increasingly cheap. It certainly doesn't look like it's worth $99, $149 to me. More like $39.99-$59.99, in terms of aesthetic appeal.

>> The shuffle doesn't have any glaring feature that could be marketed as a defining trait. Listening to your songs on shuffle? You've gotta be kidding me, Apple. Where's the FM tuner (iTunes sales precludes this, I suppose -- but I would KILL to listen to NPR on my iPod) -- the recording capabilities, the gapless playback?

>> Face it, navigating through 512-1K MBs of music would be an absolute nightmare without an interface. Apple is releasing a product that is more engineered towards being a pocket USB flash drive with music-playing capabilities as icing on the cake. It should be the other way around. A digital music player first, not second.

Of course, again, this would all be a moot point should Apple release a goshdarn LCD remote.

Thoughts?

Although i agree with you on some points. I disagree.

The strong point of the "no LCD screen" maybe one of the best selling points. Nothing to scratch, or worry about. Also, Apples advertising strategy is "Random" So why would you want a screen to see the unexpected? Although you and I know and both see it differently. Apple's advertising campeign, might just have people thinking the way Apple planned.

Think outside the box, and not just what you want the MP3 player to be.

I say this all in a friendly, mind challenging way... Nothing insulting.

~Take Luck

E. Highness

01-13-2005, 10:22 PM

Here are some tidbits from the press release that irked me.

"...Users can choose to listen to their music in order rather than shuffled, perfect for listening to a favorite new album."

...Or you could just use your CD player at that rate.

-???With most flash-memory music players users must use tiny displays and complicated controls to find their music; with iPod shuffle you just relax and it serves up new combinations of your music every time you listen.???

How about this- you could just ramble around in the dark trying to find your music on one with NO SCREEN AT ALL. Since when is nonexistent better than small??

Let's see. How about make a lackluster product whose only thing going for it is the name and the cheapness. Don't forget to cover up the fact that it has no screen by hyping up the EXCLUSIVE shuffle feature which comes on virtually every other mp3 player on the market! Sounds like Big Brother to me. :-/
Better spend that 99 bucks on a new battery if you already own an iPod...

baggss

01-13-2005, 10:39 PM

Here are some tidbits from the press release that irked me.

"...Users can choose to listen to their music in order rather than shuffled, perfect for listening to a favorite new album."

...Or you could just use your CD player at that rate.

Ya, and your CD player is,what, 10 times the size? That makes sense at the Gym or on the bike or wherever :rolleyes:

-???With most flash-memory music players users must use tiny displays and complicated controls to find their music; with iPod shuffle you just relax and it serves up new combinations of your music every time you listen.???

How about this- you could just ramble around in the dark trying to find your music on one with NO SCREEN AT ALL. Since when is nonexistent better than small??

How about, when I'm running or working out or napping, I don't WANT to worry about what the screen says.....

Let's see. How about make a lackluster product whose only thing going for it is the name and the cheapness. Don't forget to cover up the fact that it has no screen by hyping up the EXCLUSIVE shuffle feature which comes on virtually every other mp3 player on the market! Sounds like Big Brother to me. :-/

WTF ARE you talking about? BIG BROTHER? Is someone holding a GUN to your head to make you buy this? Geez, it's an MP3 player, if you don't like, go buy something else. There is plenty of other CRAP out there to choose from. Stop whining like a 12 YO girl for Christ's sake....

Better spend that 99 bucks on a new battery if you already own an iPod...

Yes, please do, and then shut the hell up....

[zerophase]

01-13-2005, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by MysticSyphon
I am fairly certain that the shuffle's popularity will never reach that of the mini or the standard iPod's. There may be an initial glut of sales due to its $99/$149 price, but the chance that it will have the sustained demand as the mini has is slim to nil. Despite its very attractive price point, the shuffle's lack of a screen will render it unable to outshine its numerous competitors, which is a shame because Apple had an opportunity here to really put a stranglehold on the market -- which can still be accomplished... by releasing a kick-### LCD remote at a reasonable price.

>> Obviously, no LCD screen, coupled with the (strange) lack of improvement in the battery department, is a giant WTF? sign.

>> Speaking of battery life, a fellow 'lounger pointed out that the absence of the battery indicator, however inaccurate it may be, will make it exceedingly hard to know when a charge is necessary. Having the player powered by an AAA battery would have not only been much more convenient, but would prolong the life of the product, as most consumers will not be wanting to shell out the $99 to replace the lithium-ion battery for a flash player.

>> It might just be me, but the lack of a screen makes the shuffle look increasingly cheap. It certainly doesn't look like it's worth $99, $149 to me. More like $39.99-$59.99, in terms of aesthetic appeal.

>> The shuffle doesn't have any glaring feature that could be marketed as a defining trait. Listening to your songs on shuffle? You've gotta be kidding me, Apple. Where's the FM tuner (iTunes sales precludes this, I suppose -- but I would KILL to listen to NPR on my iPod) -- the recording capabilities, the gapless playback?

>> Face it, navigating through 512-1K MBs of music would be an absolute nightmare without an interface. Apple is releasing a product that is more engineered towards being a pocket USB flash drive with music-playing capabilities as icing on the cake. It should be the other way around. A digital music player first, not second.

Of course, again, this would all be a moot point should Apple release a goshdarn LCD remote.

Thoughts?

I don;t see why u need all that battery life.. the thing can only at most hold 240 songs or even 120 songs.. if u play all of those songs you'll get something like 12 hoursa or less so u can play through all of your songs without worry... and if u run out, recharge it... the screen they said at the expo was cause it was "hard to read". well i can't really dissagree there... u don't really need a screen. i mean those other ones don't have clickwheels and will play in order so if u know your music why do u have to read what song it is? Its all about the "music". the no fm radio part is a bit dissappointing but i doubt the ipod of that size could get really good resception... oh well. thats my opinions. and I like the design.. very simple and just well... works.

E. Highness

01-13-2005, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by baggss
Here are some tidbits from the press release that irked me.

"...Users can choose to listen to their music in order rather than shuffled, perfect for listening to a favorite new album."

...Or you could just use your CD player at that rate.

Ya, and your CD player is,what, 10 times the size? That makes sense at the Gym or on the bike or wherever :rolleyes:

-???With most flash-memory music players users must use tiny displays and complicated controls to find their music; with iPod shuffle you just relax and it serves up new combinations of your music every time you listen.???

How about this- you could just ramble around in the dark trying to find your music on one with NO SCREEN AT ALL. Since when is nonexistent better than small??

How about, when I'm running or working out or napping, I don't WANT to worry about what the screen says.....

Let's see. How about make a lackluster product whose only thing going for it is the name and the cheapness. Don't forget to cover up the fact that it has no screen by hyping up the EXCLUSIVE shuffle feature which comes on virtually every other mp3 player on the market! Sounds like Big Brother to me. :-/

WTF ARE you talking about? BIG BROTHER? Is someone holding a GUN to your head to make you buy this? Geez, it's an MP3 player, if you don't like, go buy something else. There is plenty of other CRAP out there to choose from. Stop whining like a 12 YO girl for Christ's sake....

Better spend that 99 bucks on a new battery if you already own an iPod...

Yes, please do, and then shut the hell up....

1-There are lots of players smaller than the Shuffle to take to the gym.

2-Is somebody holding a gun to your head to defend the Shuffle? Admit it- the thing has faults- it is not the best product out there. I have nothing against mp3 players, just Apple's not-so-subtle marketing scheme.

DilbertLand

01-14-2005, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by [zerophase]
I don;t see why u need all that battery life.. the thing can only at most hold 240 songs or even 120 songs.. if u play all of those songs you'll get something like 12 hoursa or less so u can play through all of your songs without worry... and if u run out, recharge it...
Lots of potential reasons you might want the extra batter life...
Weekend camping/hiking trips.
Vacations or traveling.
Hurricane season (for the Florida residents out there) :)
Freedom from needing to plug it in every chance you get.
When the "real world" battery life ends up being half the advertised life it won't be so bad (I'll be interested to see if they really get 12 hours).
Also, you'll be less likely to regularly deep cycle the rechargable battery (so you'll get to use it longer before you send it back to Apple with a check to get the battery replaced)
etc, etc, etc.....I'm sure others can come up with more.

cpn.luckycharms

01-14-2005, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by E. Highness
Here are some tidbits from the press release that irked me.

Let's see. How about make a lackluster product whose only thing going for it is the name and the cheapness. Don't forget to cover up the fact that it has no screen by hyping up the EXCLUSIVE shuffle feature which comes on virtually every other mp3 player on the market! Sounds like Big Brother to me. :-/
Better spend that 99 bucks on a new battery if you already own an iPod...

Hm... That caught my eye more than your rambling about whatever, I wasn't paying attention, too much stupidity in one paragraph or somethin... :rolleyes:

But your right, they are overusing shuffle, but that IS their marketing plan. Like it or not. Their goal is to MAKE money... So by making something more affordable (that means no LCD screen... Sorry) They have an option to sell more units, by less price. Now, look at the sales of the Creative MuVo. Same looking player, no screen. Sold pretty well. Apple isn't trying to win over EVERYBODY and probably never will. from the looks of this year, they are going with the concept of AFFORDABILITY. Mac mini ($599) and iPod shuffle ($99).

Eh, like it or not... You gotta connect the dots yourself.

~ Take Luck

jpod999

01-14-2005, 01:53 AM

Sorry buddy, but you are wrong about the Creative Muvo. It does happen to have a screen. I have a friend that has a 128MB version and it has a small screen. I think it is like 1 line of text.

I don't care what anyone thinks about it. I am getting one as soon as I can!!! HAHAHAHA :):)

cpn.luckycharms

01-14-2005, 01:54 AM

Caught? I think Not. I also have a friend.. has a Creative MuVo... Does NOT have a screen.
I can prove it with pictures...
~Take Luck

jhollington

01-14-2005, 02:03 AM

Actually, there are several variations on the MuVo....

The original Creative MuVo (and MuVo USB 2) do not have screens.

The MuVo TX and MuVo NX, and several of the other newer versions do.

In fact, you can see them all at a glance at Creative's Product Page (http://www.creative.com/products/welcome.asp?category=213).

baggss

01-14-2005, 02:22 AM

1-There are lots of players smaller than the Shuffle to take to the gym.

Yes, but he specifically stated a CD player......did you even READ the thread?

2-Is somebody holding a gun to your head to defend the Shuffle? Admit it- the thing has faults- it is not the best product out there. I have nothing against mp3 players, just Apple's not-so-subtle marketing scheme.

Why do you care how Apple markets it? If you don't like it, don't buy it. I think it is fine for the market it is trying to reach. I happen to like it and will probably buy one. I can defend or not defend as I choose, he's acting like he HAS to buy the silly thing and he's overly distraught about it. :rolleyes:

jlb2003

01-14-2005, 04:53 AM

Love it or hate it the success of ipod shuffle will have a major impact on the market. If it is a huge success then competitors will be forced to lower their prices on the top of line flash models meaning that one will get more features and storage for less. So for those of you bashing it for the lack of a screen, fm tuner, kitchen sink, the ipod shuffle becoming a huge success may make the player you really want all that much more affordable, it just won't be from apple.

bingbongbang

01-14-2005, 07:46 AM

jeez a flash drive HP socket BUT its made by apple so that make it l33t. Cmon ohh its a ipod #### i have a old school 32 MB creative thing guess what no screen and it works as a flash drive n()()bs will buy it because its a ipod smart people buy with their minds not their eyes.

should be named "noob stix" or "Gheto bar"

people go nuts because its a ipod but it is not and i hate how thease people act as if its like a new tecnolagy or something.

meh my money will go to an iriver 512 MB player 25 Hours battery on 1 AA and many other things.

supperman

01-14-2005, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by baggss

2-Is somebody holding a gun to your head to defend the Shuffle? Admit it- the thing has faults- it is not the best product out there. I have nothing against mp3 players, just Apple's not-so-subtle marketing scheme.

Why do you care how Apple markets it? If you don't like it, don't buy it. I think it is fine for the market it is trying to reach. I happen to like it and will probably buy one. I can defend or not defend as I choose, he's acting like he HAS to buy the silly thing and he's overly distraught about it. :rolleyes: [/B]

I am a little displeased with how Apple is marketing it, because it shows that instead of trying to make a kick@ss product, they are just trying to spin the shuffle's weakness into a selling point and see how many people will buy into it. The iPod shuffle is not the first flash player with the shuffle function nor is it the smallest, so I really don't see where the innovation is in.

The danger here is that if we as consumers can be sheparded into buying a lacklustre product and have these corporations tell us how we listen to our music, then in the future nobody has to make good products anymore; just make big banners and slogans to tell people what they need or don't need.

jhollington

01-14-2005, 11:03 AM

Look at the iPod Shuffle however from the same point of view of what made the iPod itself so successful.... While I'll admit that Apple's marketing scheme is part of it, originally that was only because Apple was able to effectively communicate their message of simplicity and ease of use.

By itself the Shuffle is no different from any other flash-based USB stick MP3 player out there. In fact, as many have pointed out, by itself it's SUB-standard.

Ironically, however, most of Apple's competitors are so busy trying to build an iPod killer that they don't seem to have yet figured out that it's the ease of putting music ONTO the iPod (including the Shuffle) that has made it such a huge success. In other words, it's the software on the PC/Mac side more than it is the device itself.

Let's face it, when it comes right down to it, finding and playing music on just about any portable MP3 player isn't rocket science, and while the iPod has a prettier interface than most, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

However, when I look at the typical non-technical user, they couldn't figure out how to load music onto some other MP3 players if their lives depended on it, and even the ones that aren't too difficult to figure out still require more effort than iTunes does.

There are a lot of people out there that don't want to mess with their computer, they just want to listen to their music.

sparks9

01-14-2005, 12:44 PM

The most important feature of the Shuffle is that it works with iTunes seamlessly. Without iTunes it would just be yet another usbkey with music playing abilities (a nice looking one tho).

cpn.luckycharms

01-14-2005, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by jhollington
There are a lot of people out there that don't want to mess with their computer, they just want to listen to their music.

Yep. And now that people have heard about the simplicity of an iPod... but not so sold on the $300 price tag, an iPod shuffle, is perfect for them.

Again, like it or not, Apple MUST advertise to make money. Although the extent of using a shuffle feature as a major selling point (because evrey other player has it) is a bit low, and extremely not very creative at all. I think that was Apple's *Blunder*... Not the missing screen.

~Take Luck

mtnagel

01-14-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by jhollington
Ironically, however, most of Apple's competitors are so busy trying to build an iPod killer that they don't seem to have yet figured out that it's the ease of putting music ONTO the iPod (including the Shuffle) that has made it such a huge success. In other words, it's the software on the PC/Mac side more than it is the device itself.

Let's face it, when it comes right down to it, finding and playing music on just about any portable MP3 player isn't rocket science, and while the iPod has a prettier interface than most, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

However, when I look at the typical non-technical user, they couldn't figure out how to load music onto some other MP3 players if their lives depended on it, and even the ones that aren't too difficult to figure out still require more effort than iTunes does.

There are a lot of people out there that don't want to mess with their computer, they just want to listen to their music. WOW! You totally just nailed it on the head for me. When first looking for a portable mp3 player, I had pretty much dismissed flash based ones from the start because I figured what a pain in the butt it would be to have to figure out which 100 or so songs I'd want to listen to out of 4500+ songs. But with the features in the upgraded iTunes, that gets handled automatically. I guess that's why when I heard about it, it sounded so exciting. I even called to see if I could return my full sized iPod (long story but I couldn't). Then I started looking around and I saw the SanDisk 1 gig one which is cheaper and better (but a little bigger), but then I went back to how would I get the songs on the device - since I couldn't use iTunes with it, it would have to be manual - which would suck. Although, I'm assuming that Music Match and Microsoft and others that make music organization software and music transfering software are already working on a copy of the iTunes functionality. To be honest, that's basically how I use my full sized iPod anyway. I basically put it on shuffle on a playlist at the gym and just listen to those songs and very rarely do I even need to skip one. The only negative I see is that I like to have my entire music colletion at the tip of my finger so that I could change whenever I want to instead of having to plan ahead and think what I would want to listen to.

cpn.luckycharms

01-22-2005, 10:12 PM

Well, I think what really matters now, is how fast they are all FLYING off the shelves.

Guy Kuo

01-22-2005, 10:47 PM

Announcing the new G2 iPod Shuffle - With ultra simple operation.

Apple's G2 iPod shuffle will improve ease of use and deliver even more clean styling. No controls at all to mar this beauty'sl lines. The G2 shuffle turns on and begins playing simply by your plugging in the headphones. To stop or turn it off, just unplug the headphones. Volume is set via the iTunes volume slider during sync. No more fumbling with small buttons. The G2 iPod Shuffle delivers pure musical bliss without distracting controls.

*nappyD

01-22-2005, 11:09 PM

First of all, as discussed before, the shuffle has been tested to have a battery life around 17 h, as tested by ipodlounge. 17 hours, or even 12, is plenty of music playing time. Even If your on an intercontinental flight this will last you plenty of the way, while you are distracted by things like food, movies, or other in-flight entertainment.

If there was an LCD screen on the player it would not only add to the price, but it would also make it less robust. As for the LCD remote...The shuffle is pretty much the size of a remote so whats the point?? however, it wouldn't be possible to have an LCD remote connecting through the headphone jack because it needs another form of port that has the information for the display as with the minidisc players from sony.