Firewire Vs USB 2

[jaxxmanuk]

Need to buy one or the other for my laptop, which is faster / recommended?

Cheers,

Jaxx

[Ichijoe]

Ok the keyword is 'Laptop'...

First off if you can get USB2.0 (or have it on your Laptop), use that! FireWire 400 (On Laptop's it's usualy called 'i.Link') in a non-powerd port. So you'd need to make sure that you either have your iPod charged to it's MAX or you carry the AC Brick around with you and useing the Splitter FireWire / USB: to Dock Cable.

If this is about a Mini or the newer 4G iPod's you can use the USBx.x to porvide a +5V to the iPod it's not enough to charge it so don't bother, but it will be enough to take most of the hit off the Batterie so you wont loose that much Batterie Life when you Synch up.

Just a word to the wise make sure first that your Laptop can handel a 32bit PCMCIA Card first! I had a P133Laptop. Lame I know! that only had a 16bit PCMCIA Bus on it! needless to say it didn't work!

[jaxxmanuk]

My laptop is ok for 32 Bit PCMCIA cards its just a bummer as it has old style USB 1.0 slots. Transfer rate is slow but not recommended lol :)

Its a 4G 20GB iPOD. Basically I am after the fastest most battery efficient connection?

Which would you choose mate?

[Fowler]

I'm pondering the same questions..

Got my 4G 40GB coming in a few days (fingers crossed) and would like to get my head around which connections to use to charge and sync before it arrives.

I've got a laptop as well, with Firewire 400 (I think) and USB 2.0, but I understand neither of these will charge and sync together, so can you just connect the dock to AC and to USB, connect the 'Pod and it'll charge and sync?

[Elithrar]

I'd use the USB simply because a PCMCIA USB card will be useful for printers, cameras and other devices rather than just the iPod. FireWire is the go if you need a connection for a video camera.

[jaxxmanuk]

You can't sync and charge at the same time unless you use a cradle (i think)

The power charger connects to the ipod via a firewire cable so you can't then plug it into youre laptop as it is taken.

At the moment I am a bit stunned by the lack of features or features I have to buy.

I have come from a Sony Mini Disc background.

My faults with the ipod are .....

I have to pay extra for a remote (do apple really think its a good idea to wave it round when you want to skip a song lol)

you can't sync and charge

pay extra for cradle

pay extra for a bog standard case just to stop scratches etc.. lol

I will stick with it I think until the Sony HDD comes out.

[Texipod]

I have an Adaptec pcmcia card that has 2 usb 2.0, 1 6 pin firewire and 1 4 pin firewire (ilink) connection. It works great and it only cost $55 at CompUSA.

[jaxxmanuk]

but which connection is better if you had both?

[Ichijoe]

FireWire 400 is faster thouhout @400Mb/s
USB2.0 has a Max burst rate of 480Mb/s

In practice they are about the same with FireWire ending up just a touch faster.

FireWire or (AC Brick over FireWire) is also the preferred way to charge your iPod.
FireWire 400 +12V 12W @1A
USBx.x +5V 1.2W 500mA

So eventhough USB1.x would transfer slower then USB2.0 on iPod Mini's and 4G can lap up that +5V and take the hit of the Batterie. Something that i.Link (Most newer Laptops - 4Pin FireWire 400), or PCMCIA can not give you. If your incliend to get a external powerd PCMCIA Firewire Card, you'd get off cheaper by getting the FireWire / USB: to Dock Cable. Just use the USB and take your Brick with you!

-> jaxxmanuk

How did you ever charge your ipod before you got the Dock? Or did you spring for the 40Gb One? ;) I don't know if Apple are giving Docks away with 20Gb 4G's now. But, it used to be that People had to buy the Dock as an addon item. That Cabe that fits onto the Dock just by chance also fits on the iPod itself...

[jaxxmanuk]

Thanks :)

What I meant was I was used to being able to charge my Mini Disc Player and transfer music to it at the same time.

The iPOD didn't come with a cradle which I presume is the only way you can sync and charge at the same time?

[Ichijoe]

You are ment to use the FireWire to Sync and Charge. This is true for 3G>. But, the Mini and 4G iPods can use the USB's +5V Apple apperently added this feature to it's newer Models. So whereas before you could only Sync an iPod over USB with just the iPod Batterie, or the i.Link again with the iPod Batterie. If you have a Mini or 4G iPod you can Sync over the USB and use the +5V to take that hit off the Batterie. It's not the same thing as Charging it. Alltohgh it'll apper that way to some!

The Dock is just a cool toy so you can display your iPod and keep it off the Desk so you don't have to get the Metal back all scratched up!

So I would recomend (if you have a Mini or 4G iPod), to use the USB beit on your Laptop or as a PCMACIA Card. As i.Link and FireWire will either requre you to use the iPod Batterie or an External 12V Powersource.

Desktop PC: On the other hand FireWire 400 ALL THE WAY!!

[Fowler]

This is making my brain hurt..

I've currently got a Sony Mini Disk too and have been used to connecting it to mains and USB and transferring music (albeit very, very crappily), (as well as not worrying about the battery running out/it getting scratched/not working etc, etc!) and had thought I could just connect the iPod to Firewire or USB and do both, but now I'm really quite confused as to what to do!

Think I'll wait til it arrives and see what's easiest.

[Ichijoe]

First off FORGET THE MINIDISC! It's not even close to what an iPod is! Why even bother makeing this comparison in the first place?

I'll try to make it more clear this time...

Gen 1 though 2 can only use FireWire 400 to Sync and Charge. At the same time!

Gen 3 can also use FireWire 400 to Sync and Charge It is also the First iPod to make use of USB2.0. For Sync'ing ONLY!!

Mini and Gen 4 can (just as G1~G3) use FireWire 400. It can just like G3 use USB2.0. Unlike G3 however it can draw power off the +5V Bus. Some minds on this site believe it can Charge there iPods (who knows it actualy might!), But, I choose to see it as more of a power supplement, to offset the Batterie drain. USBx.x has +5V beit 1.0 ~ 2.0 only the Bus speed is increased not the power.

I suggested USB over Firewire 400 (or i.Link), becouse this is soposed to be on a Laptop, and unlike the other Two. You can draw the +5V off the USB Bus. So unlike your MiniDisc you can Charge and Access your iPod at the same time.

If you went to the Apple Store and picked up the FireWire / USB: to Dock Cable ???18.00(Eur) you could plug on end up to the iPod and the other USB to the Laptop, and the FireWire to the AC Brick.
Or just feed off the USB +5V. (Mini and 4G ONLY!)

I wouldn't recomend dumping 100's of Songs in One go useing USB.1.x, but, for a few at a time I'm sure it's tolerable. Plus with a Mini or G4 iPod the Batterie hit shouldn't be that hard either.

Like I said before if this were for a Desktop. It would have to be FireWire 400 all the way!

[Gareth Stott]

I have a ipod mini on the way and have the same problem about what kind of card to buy for my PC laptop (which has 32 bit card bus slots but only USB 1).
I've also ordered a dock. So am I right in thinking if I buy a USB 2 card, I will have everything to charge and synch my mini via USB 2 whilst it's sat in its dock? The adaptor and cable I need being included....

This is still confusing me - guess it'll be easier once the thing arrives and I see how it all hooks up.

[smirf83]

OK i'm gonna try and help you get your heads around this. Here you go:
First off, the dock DOES NOTHING!! All it does is provide a nice place for your ipod to rest on your desk so that it looks cool, and also it provides you with a Line Out port for superior connection to a stereo if you're inclined to do this (I'm not.)
Now I'm going to break down the facts for you. The following assumes you have either a 20GB or a 40GB 4G ipod:
1) 4G ipod can sync and charge via USB2
2) 4G ipod can sync and charge via 6-pin Firewire
3) 4G ipod can only sync via 4-pin Firewire

Laptops have 4-pin firewire ports, so you will not be able to sync and charge using your 4-pin Firewire port on your laptop!!

You have the following options:
1) Use laptops inbuilt USB2 port for connecting ipod (if you have an inbuilt USB2 port), using the USB2 cable included with the ipod to sync and charge at the same time.
2) Use laptops inbuilt 4-pin Firewire port for connecting ipod, using the Firewire cable included with the ipod to sync . You would only be able to connect the ipod when the ipod is practically fully charged, thus this option is not recommended.
3) You buy the Firewire + USB cable as shown here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009KO0D/qid=1094246116/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-0246308-6981258 With this you connect the dock connecter end to your ipod, the USB end to your existing USB1/USB1.1 port on your laptop and the Firewire end to the AC adapter. Using this method you will be able to charge and sync simultaneously, but you will need to be near a power outlet.
4) You buy a USB2 PCMIA card. Then you use the USB2 cable included with the ipod to sync and charge at the same time.
I hope this helps, it's taken me a while to think this through and type it all out :)

[Gareth Stott]

Cheers Smirf,

Although this still raises a couple of issues.........

1)I thought the mini came with the cable you refer to? Or is it a different one.......?
2)I was under the impression that if i bought a USB2 PCMIA card for my laptop (which only has USB 1 currently and no firewire) the card couldn't provide enough power to charge the ipod without connecting a separate power supply to either the card or the ipod (through the cable you mention I guess...)

All I want to do is sit the mini in a dock (with power) next to my stereo downstairs and be able to synch/charge with my laptop upstairs. So far just bought the dock/mini/stereo cable. What else do I need?

Hope I'm not asking stupid questions......

[amit632]

Just an FYI for people here, I myself use a 4G 20 GB iPod with an IBM Thinkpad T21 which has just 1 usb 1.x port, and it charges and syncs simultaneously (at least when its connected to AC, not sure without) with the included usb cable. Transfer rates I get are about 0.5 MB/s or ~ 8s for a 4MB song.

I've used USB 2.0 on my friend's desktop and I get much faster rates (a 700 MB movie file transfers in a few minutes).

I'm actually very satisfied with the usb 1.x connection, since I only transfer a few songs (except the initial transfer of my entire collection) If I were you, I'd just save up for a good case or the remote :D

[Ichijoe]

-> smirf83

Can you state where you read that you can Sync and Charge via USB? A thing that looks like a charge, and what is actualy a charge can be Two enitirly differnt things!

You do realize that USB has a much weaker power strength then FireWire right?

USB +5V 1.2W 500mA
FireWire +12 12W 1A

That's a sizeable difference in power. I'm sorry I just don't see how you can charge an iPod like that, and even if you could it would only serve to send the Batterie down South faster then it otherwise would be incliend to. If I'm worng about this and you have Printed proof from Apple on USB Charging. I'd ask you to share it with everyone on this BBS.

Laptops have 4-pin firewire ports, so you will not be able to sync and charge using your 4-pin Firewire port on your laptop!!


I think what you ment to say was 'You can Sync but, not Charge.' Perhaps it was just the way I read it...

[MadDog5145]

Originally posted by Ichijoe
-> smirf83

Can you state where you read that you can Sync and Charge via USB? A thing that looks like a charge, and what is actualy a charge can be Two enitirly differnt things!

You do realize that USB has a much weaker power strength then FireWire right?

USB +5V 1.2W 500mA
FireWire +12 12W 1A

That's a sizeable difference in power. I'm sorry I just don't see how you can charge an iPod like that, and even if you could it would only serve to send the Batterie down South faster then it otherwise would be incliend to. If I'm worng about this and you have Printed proof from Apple on USB Charging. I'd ask you to share it with everyone on this BBS.

The ipod CAN charge through both the USB port (actually only the 4g ipods and minis support this) and Firewire (all ipods can charge through a powered firewire port). It's a fact.

[Ichijoe]

Sorry could you show me where Apple say this on a website or a PDF File (Copy of the Owners Manual)? I would really love to see what Apple thinks of this matter. I'm not anti USB or anything but, do the Math! the iPod needs a +12V source and it ain't gona find One on the USB Bus. That's a FACT!

Since USB can only supply a +5V line that leaves a wopping +6V to make up for the power level is >50%. Ever try to run a Flashlight with only a 40% charge? You'd probably wouldn't get very far.

However if the iPod could tap into this 'power' even if it's only 40% of the whole. It's still better then nothing!
When it's getting absolutly nothing out of a PCMCIA Card or a 4-Pin i.Link port. At best it will take some of the hit off the iPod's Batterie, but, how you come to the fact that it can also charge it is strange to me.

Becouse it this would be true then there should be no need for anyone in the USB Crowd to have to connect up to there
AC 'Brick's after doing a full Restore or Update as they usualy have to do inorder to finnish off the iPod OS install...

Thank about that. Or Show me the error of my ways!!

Or perhapps the question should change from 'Is it possible?' to 'Is it wise (or Safe) to?'...

[MadDog5145]

Originally posted by Ichijoe
Sorry could you show me where Apple say this on a website or a PDF File (Copy of the Owners Manual)? I would really love to see what Apple thinks of this matter. I'm not anti USB or anything but, do the Math! the iPod needs a +12V source and it ain't gona find One on the USB Bus. That's a FACT!

Since USB can only supply a +5V line that leaves a wopping +6V to make up for the power level is >50%. Ever try to run a Flashlight with only a 40% charge? You'd probably wouldn't get very far.

However if the iPod could tap into this 'power' even if it's only 40% of the whole. It's still better then nothing!
When it's getting absolutly nothing out of a PCMCIA Card or a 4-Pin i.Link port. At best it will take some of the hit off the iPod's Batterie, but, how you come to the fact that it can also charge it is strange to me.

Becouse it this would be true then there should be no need for anyone in the USB Crowd to have to connect up to there
AC 'Brick's after doing a full Restore or Update as they usualy have to do inorder to finnish off the iPod OS install...

Thank about that. Or Show me the error of my ways!!

Or perhapps the question should change from 'Is it possible?' to 'Is it wise (or Safe) to?'...

From my other post, that you appeared to ignoree.....

"First time I got my ipod, I immediately plugged it into my usb port and transferred over 35 gigs of music. It took around 2-3 hours. How can you explain that I can do that in one sitting without having to charge? And how can you explain when my iPod displays the batter icon+"Charged" after letting it connected to the usb for a couple of hours? How can you explain me using the iPod for over a week averaging a couple hours a day without ever charging through the ac adapter? "

Again how can I be using my iPod for over a week without ever touching the ac adapter. You dont need a manual to tell you what works and what doesnt it. So get of your high horse and admit your wrong.