Challenge: Replace the iPod hard drive

[tonicboy]

Ok guys, the gauntlet has been thrown. Some techies figured out how to replace the hard drive in a Nomad Zen - http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1186827,00.asp. Are we gonna stand for this? Where is the pride of the iPod community?! I propose a challenge, that someone successfully replace the hard drive on an iPod. It can be on a 1G, 2G, 3G, it doesn't matter. Basic principles should apply equally to all three generations. Size also doesn't matter. Going from a 30gig drive to a 10gig drive counts. The only requirement is that the new hard drive is not previously formatted for iPod (i.e. you can't take the drive out of another iPod). The prize? Fame and adulation from the entire iPod community of course!!

[cli]

Only a PCMCIA hard disk suitable for ipod's form factor, and as far as i know only Toshiba makes it, which is already being used by the ipod, so it'll be like replacing a toshiba drive with another toshiba...:rolleyes:

[psxguy85]

What? Why does that constitute a ":rolleyes: "?

I'm sure they make a larger capacity toshiba hard drive, and maybe someone would be crazy enough to try and get that into the iPod.

[noryen]

Doesn't the Zen use a larger, more widely available hard drive then the iPod?

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by noryen
Doesn't the Zen use a larger, more widely available hard drive then the iPod?

Yes, the Zen uses a standard 2.5" laptop hard drive whereas the iPod uses a 1.8" hard drive only made by Toshiba.

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by cli
...it'll be like replacing a toshiba drive with another toshiba...:rolleyes:

That's hardly a meaningless exercise. First of all, why does the brand of the hard drive matter? It's likely that the Zen guys switched one hard drive with another of the same brand (seeing as how they used a hard drive from another Nomad product and Nomad probably only has one hard drive vendor). It would be very useful to switch one Toshiba hard drive with another of a different size. Another use case is if your hard drive failed after warranty, you could replace your own. The obvious use case that has most of us drooling at the prospect is if Toshiba releases a bigger hard drive, we could upgrade the one in our current model without paying for a new iPod.

[Phil]

The main problem that makes replacing the ipod hard drive completely pointless is that the ipod only works with hard drives made by Toshiba made specifically for Apple that comes with a special firmware. In other words, replacing the hard drives requires obtaining the hard drive from another ipod.

There is a slight twist, however. The ipod works as an mp3 player with any hard drive as long as it has the OS installed. So you would be able to plug the hard drive to your computer and transfer music over using Ephpod, adn then put it into the ipod and it'll work fine as an mp3 player. But when you connect the ipod to the computer, it doesn't function properly in disk mode.

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by Phil
The main problem that makes replacing the ipod hard drive completely pointless is that the ipod only works with hard drives made by Toshiba made specifically for Apple that comes with a special firmware. In other words, replacing the hard drives requires obtaining the hard drive from another ipod.Not necessarily. It only requires someone to figure out how to load a hard drive with the appropriate firmware. I don't mean to make this sound trivial, but it's certainly possible. Anyway, that's why it's called a challenge!
:cool:

[puntloos]

Well, we have

http://ipodlinux.sourceforge.net

I would venture to say that with it you would be able to at least copy the entire ipod 'OS' and what not from the pod to -somewhere-, over firewire. All you need from there is some way to get the ipod or perhaps a PC to start writing data to the disk. Perhaps it has some raw data dump functionality?

No way to hot-swap huh? Or perhaps will the ipod just accept 'ipod updater' soft?

Anyway those toshiba HDD's are mad expensive, aren't they?

[bsodmike]

A hint (thanks to U***M*****): use dd to copy the firmware to the new disk :D

The howto is on this forums, if only people started to use the search a little bit more often!

[puntloos]

Originally posted by bsodmike
A hint (thanks to U***M*****): use dd to copy the firmware to the new disk :D

The howto is on this forums, if only people started to use the search a little bit more often!

The problem as I see it (no I couldnt find the topic you're referring to) is that we have no (handy) way to connect 2 of these harddisks to one machine (be it ipod or PC) and then get to linux to do this operation.

[Bob]

I think if you want to carry out this challenge you should take it to a site where hardware modification is more appropriate, like Applefritter (http://www.applefritter.com).

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by puntloos
The problem as I see it (no I couldnt find the topic you're referring to) is that we have no (handy) way to connect 2 of these harddisks to one machine (be it ipod or PC) and then get to linux to do this operation.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there are cables for these hard drives that just hook up to a normal IDE controller. Once you get that going, there are many ways to get firmware off of and back onto a hard drive. I still haven't found anywhere that sells these Toshiba hard drives though, so it may all be a moot point.

[Otto]

Originally posted by MadPict
I think if you want to carry out this challenge you should take it to a site where hardware modification is more appropriate, like Applefritter (http://www.applefritter.com).

:rolleyes:

For crying out loud... Why is this site so anti-hacking? What the heck is wrong with you people?

It's *not* illegal to disassemble the device and plug stuff into it. Why? YOU BOUGHT THE BOX.

It's *not* illegal to rip the firmware off one box and put it on another, because hey, YOU PAID FOR BOTH BOXES. You have TWO licenses to use the software.

Heck, it's not even illegal to *reverse engineer the firmwire*. Why? Because reverse engineering is *protected by law*. Despite what that license says.

I mean, really... Give us a break, guys.

If this forum is going to continue to be this way, then I'll suggest everyone take it over to www.ipodhacks.com. It's a fairly low message quantity forum right now, but if you can't discuss anything of interest, or indeed *value*, here then screw this forum, yeah?

You can only tell newbies how to hold the Menu button to turn on the backlight so many times, or something similar, before you run out of actual things to talk about, Mr. Administrator.

[Phil]

Originally posted by puntloos
The problem as I see it (no I couldnt find the topic you're referring to) is that we have no (handy) way to connect 2 of these harddisks to one machine (be it ipod or PC) and then get to linux to do this operation.

I have one of those adapters. It just adapts the 1.8" interface to a standard 2.5" IDE interface, and then using another adapter you can connected to standard IDE. You don't need the adapter to copy off the firmware though, nor Linux. You can just use Windows software. Just use USB. Firewire doesn't always work, something to do with the ipod hardware and how it's not truely an external firewire hard drive, but good enough.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Otto
:rolleyes:

For crying out loud... Why is this site so anti-hacking? What the heck is wrong with you people?

It's *not* illegal to disassemble the device and plug stuff into it. Why? YOU BOUGHT THE BOX.

It's *not* illegal to rip the firmware off one box and put it on another, because hey, YOU PAID FOR BOTH BOXES. You have TWO licenses to use the software.

Heck, it's not even illegal to *reverse engineer the firmwire*. Why? Because reverse engineering is *protected by law*. Despite what that license says.

I mean, really... Give us a break, guys.

If this forum is going to continue to be this way, then I'll suggest everyone take it over to www.ipodhacks.com. It's a fairly low message quantity forum right now, but if you can't discuss anything of interest, or indeed *value*, here then screw this forum, yeah?

You can only tell newbies how to hold the Menu button to turn on the backlight so many times, or something similar, before you run out of actual things to talk about, Mr. Administrator.

Otto,
Firstly I did not tell anyone to actually take it there - I merely pointed out a better place for modifying Apple products exists at Applefritter.

I could not give two hoots (or wOOts even) what you do with your ipod or anyone else's iPod. I am fully aware of the fact that it is your property - you can drop it out of a skyscraper if you so wish.

You can pull it apart to your hearts content - go ahead be my guest.

Don't get all defensive just because I happen to make a suggestion.

With regards to any "activity" which involves Apple software it is clear from the Apple Software Licence Agreement that Except as and only to the extent expressly permitted in this License or by applicable law, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, modify, or create derivative works of the Apple Software or any part thereof. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the Apple Software. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.

Now if you feel confident that you can take on the might of Apples lawyers then you are also welcome to go ahead and try. But this site has to tread a very careful path. It can be closed down in a heartbeat for the right reasons. Believe me, I know. One word is all it takes.
That is why we have discouraged such discussions. Not because we disapprove of it but because it could be illegal.

You are of course free to migrate across to ipodhacks if you want to - and just as free to stay here if you wish. But please abide by the few rules we do think are important to enforce.

[Phil]

Oh, and the problem still is the hard drive firmware. Until you can re-program the firmware for an off-the-shelf 1.8" Toshiba drive to make it Apple-specific, the ipod doesn't work in firewire disk mode. Also, there's the firmware limitation on hard drive size. For example, if a 40GB 1.8" drive were available right now, firmware 2.0 might only support up to 30GB and won't work with a larger drive.

Otherwise, I've been able to copy one ipod hard drive to a standard 1.8" hard drive and have the ipod work fine as an mp3 player, but that's nothing really useful unless you plan to never connect the ipod to the comptuer again to add/remove/modify your music.

[puntloos]

Re: the metadiscussion: Regardless of what the apple rules say this forum can quite easily claim that this is all hypothetical discussion, which, in fact it is. There's quite a lot of laws backing us there, most notably 'freedom of speech'. In the end, you're quite allowed to discuss how to assemble an atom bomb as well.

Of course, theoretically a big company can just file a 'dummy' suit that any other big company would laugh at but a small privately funded/voluntary effort site like this site can't survive.. that much is true. However as eh.. someone I forget the name pointed out, I would very much doubt that apple cares if you disassemble your ipod, break one, and put in a new HDD in the other. Sure, they can take down one of the most popular apple-supporting forums out there (cause the # of positive posts about the ipod totally dwarfs the negative sounds) and in the end making $0 cause Im quite positive they can't actually win the case against any of the operators and get punitive damages out of the forum owners.

Or.. they could like seek out 10 guys who spread macOSX thru edonkey and sue them for $10,000 each. Which would YOU do if you were apple.

And now on with the regular program..

Phil: hmm cool to hear that 'in principle' it all works fine! Still, one could wonder if the ipodlinux software can't pull out some firmware data out of the drive if we asked them nicely.

But also, if I would have such convertors (1.8 -> 2.5 and 2.5 -> standard) (how much do those cost anyway? Ballpark figure?) then I could very much envision making a 'perfect' ipod with 20G filled with tracks I like and have quite the useful player, even if you can't use it for portable HDD anymore.

It wouldnt be great but it'd sure beat a dead pod or get a new one for $400+

[tonicboy]

Actually, downloading firmware from one hard drive and flashing it onto another hard drive is fairly easy with utilities like MTKFLASH. That's really not the problem. Of course, firmwares technically speaking are only designed for specific hardware so if you plop it into another hard drive it may or may not work. But if you plop into another hard drive of the same family then it most likely will work.

The real problem here is getting your hands onto that #### hard drive! Right now Toshiba is only OEM'ing it AFAIK. There are some laptops that use it, but that's a lot of money to spend just to get your hands on a hard drive for a "science experiment".

[puntloos]

Hehe well we're all doing this hypothetically, of course.

But hmm indeed, if someone could actually -find- the drives (and: pricing info, Im sure Apple isnt paying full price for them, so maybe buying a new ipod would be more cost-effective :) ) then by all means let's hear it ;)

(unless the admins disagree but well see my previous rant ;) )

[Otto]

Originally posted by MadPict
Don't get all defensive just because I happen to make a suggestion.
I'm not defensive because you made a suggestion. I'm astounded that the rules are so ridiculous. If you don't like me criticizing your laughably silly rules, then say so.

Now if you feel confident that you can take on the might of Apples lawyers then you are also welcome to go ahead and try. But this site has to tread a very careful path. It can be closed down in a heartbeat for the right reasons. Believe me, I know. One word is all it takes.
That is why we have discouraged such discussions. Not because we disapprove of it but because it could be illegal.
Okay:
a) Why would Apple have *any* reason to sick lawyers on you for discussion of hacking the iPod? This discussion is about swapping drives. I mean, the suggestion that Apple is losing money because of this or something similar is silly. Hacking iPod's means only one thing to Apple: They get to sell more iPod's to people. I mean, you're not talking about building new iPod's here or competing with their revenue stream (ie. making something else that causes them not to sell more iPod's). Adding features or some such only improves the product to the consumer, and it does it for free, from Apple's POV.

Do you not allow discussions about replacing the battery in iPod's? Because that impacts their revenue more than anything thus far talked about. Why? Because now they can't charge people $250 for a new iPod with a dead battery.

b) If Apple does get antsy, then you simply close down the "hacking" section. Problem solved, in my opinion. No need to think that you're "risking the forum" because of people talking about stuff.

You are of course free to migrate across to ipodhacks if you want to - and just as free to stay here if you wish. But please abide by the few rules we do think are important to enforce.
I'm not saying not to abide by your rules. I'm saying that your rules are poorly thought through (to be nice about it), and that you're attempting to stop a problem that doesn't exist.

[caterinka]

Otto, I think you're missing MadPict's key points:

1) He wasn't tell you to go away, so please don't go all stinky
2) References to hacking the firmware are skating a thin line according to the license agreement, and we just don't want to be sued over something that minor.

No one said you shouldn't take apart your iPod or discuss it. Have at it!

[JYoung]

Originally posted by caterinka

No one said you shouldn't take apart your iPod or discuss it. Have at it!


Ooohh, don't tempt him.
Otto can tear down and upgrade a TiVo in under a minute...... :D

[Otto]

Originally posted by caterinka
Otto, I think you're missing MadPict's key points:

1) He wasn't tell you to go away, so please don't go all stinky
I have not yet gotten "all stinky". I mean, I haven't even used the phrase "gutless coward" once! I think I'm doing pretty well. ;)

2) References to hacking the firmware are skating a thin line according to the license agreement, and we just don't want to be sued over something that minor.
I understand that quite well, I just think your reasoning is flawed. You're not going to get sued for something like that. It won't happen. Just that simple.

[Phil]

Originally posted by puntloos
[B]
But also, if I would have such convertors (1.8 -> 2.5 and 2.5 -> standard) (how much do those cost anyway? Ballpark figure?) then I could very much envision making a 'perfect' ipod with 20G filled with tracks I like and have quite the useful player, even if you can't use it for portable HDD anymore.
[B]

The 2.5"->standard adapter is like $10 or less and can be found anywhere since laptop drives are everywhere. I was lucky to be able to obtain a 1.8"->2.5" adapter. I have no idea how much it costs, but it couldn't cost more than $20.

After doing all the testing above, I thought about buying a bad ipod with a bad hard drive and putting in my own 1.8" 5GB non-Apple Toshiba hard drive and add all the music I would want and then I could use it and treat it like crap and not care if it gets scratched and what not, but I never got around to it.

[Squibbles]

--EDIT--
Messed up .. thinking about the battery. :)

[breadbox]

well th emain problem, as I see it is that "change the harddrive" exercise is rather pointless, since that buying thoses toshiba drives are more expensive than buying a new iPod (at least for the PC card version of the HD)
when there will be some really competition for thoses tiny HD, that prices go doiwn, maybe at that point, it will woth the time to see how easy it is to replace the HD in the iPod

[eustacescrubb]

I have not yet gotten "all stinky". I mean, I haven't even used the phrase "gutless coward" once! I think I'm doing pretty well.

No, you were being stinky, Otto. Bob wasn't trying to squash the discussion, but add to it with his link, and you read more into his suggestion than was really there.
For the record, iPodlounge is "anti-hacking" only when it comes to illegal hacking, such as illegally distributing software, software "cracks", and the like. Apple's license is legally dubious, yes, but Bob's concern is valid: Apple watches this board and reccomends it to users having trouble with iPods. This means that we're likely to catch flack if Apple does decide to take some kind of action. He wasn't at all suggesting that we not cover this topic, but only that folks do so with discretion. Choose your words carefully is all we're saying. ;)

And be nice to us when we seem to do or say something you don't agree with. Moderating is basically a string of judgement calls, and there are always new situations which arise to which we have to respond quickly. None of us is power-mad or mean, and we are all iPod users and fans. We're all on the same side here. Polite inquiry (especially in the correct forum) about an actio we've taken is much more likely to get a positive response than calling one of us a "gutless coward". The most certain way to ensure that your case won't be heard is to insult one of the people who will decide its outcome. (I call this the AMG Memorial Rule).
And, Otto, for the record, telling us you were planning on caling Bob a gutless coward is not any different from actually doing it. You need to apologise to Bob - you don't know the man, and just because you disagree with his assesment fo the situation does not make him a coward.

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by breadbox
well th emain problem, as I see it is that "change the harddrive" exercise is rather pointless, since that buying thoses toshiba drives are more expensive than buying a new iPod (at least for the PC card version of the HD)
when there will be some really competition for thoses tiny HD, that prices go doiwn, maybe at that point, it will woth the time to see how easy it is to replace the HD in the iPod Sometimes the point of a challenge is to do it. If not, why would people climb mountains? It's dangerous and costs time and money. But when you're finished, you can say YOU DID IT.
:cool:

Oh, and for the record Otto, you WERE being stinky and still ARE. Better quit while you're way behind.

[Otto]

Originally posted by eustacescrubb
And, Otto, for the record, telling us you were planning on caling Bob a gutless coward is not any different from actually doing it. You need to apologise to Bob - you don't know the man, and just because you disagree with his assesment fo the situation does not make him a coward.
I wasn't planning on calling him a gutless coward. I think you missed the joke. :rolleyes:

And be nice to us when we seem to do or say something you don't agree with.
I have been nice thus far. This is as nice as I get. Sorry if you're reading it wrong, but I'm not planning on changing here.

No, you were being stinky, Otto. Bob wasn't trying to squash the discussion, but add to it with his link, and you read more into his suggestion than was really there.
You know, I've been a moderator of forums for a long, long time, and somehow, I don't think I was reading more than was actually there. He was trying to shuffle the discussion elsewhere and that's all there is to it. Either the discussion is okay on this forum or it's not. Just make up your minds which it is, yeah? I can go either way, but pick a way and roll with it. Don't be saying "this might not be okay" when you're the one who gets to decide whether it's okay or not. Either let people talk about it or close the thread because it's against the rules. Pick a stance and stick with it.

As of right now, the rules are so unbelievable vague that it's impossible to tell what's okay to discuss and what isn't. The whole EU volume limitation thread, for example. That didn't even involve modifying the firmware, just copying it from one box to another, and bam, it got closed.

So, which is it? Is it okay to discuss replacing the hard drive on this forum? If not, then why is this thread still open? If it is okay, then why are you and the other mods/admins trying to make people take it to other forums? Just pick and choose and don't screw around and keep everybody uncertain, that's the problem here.

[caterinka]

Otto, I'm going to go over this one more time in hope that you'll get it:

MadPict suggested that Applefritter might be a better place to disucss breaking open your iPod because they do that sort of thing there. They specialize in it. We don't. Because we don't always have all the answers, we are unafraid to suggest that more information might be gleaned from another source. Bob would have said 'don't discuss that here' if that is what he meant.

Talk about breaking into your iPod all you want. No one minds that. Please don't talk about software or firmware hacks as they violate the license agreement and we don't want trouble. The law is probably on the side of the individuals doing the reverse engineering, but the law might not be on the side of a site that is interpreted as having promoted the violation of a license agreement. No, Apple probably won't sue us, but we don't want to take that gamble. We just don't.

[pank2002]

common Otto.... That is BS.

The moderaters are doing a great job, and you are being sticky.
You missuderstood Bobs post. He came with a sugestion. He poined out that there maby would be some people @ that forum who would know more about it. If the mods didnt want this tread, it would be gone already.
With the EU volume problem (I think the tread im thinking about is "please send me a US *something*") there were good reasons for closing it. it ended up as spam, and got closed.
Now cool down. As a "moderator of forums for a long, long time" you should know not to take it all to personal, and just stay cool, and be nice... Okay :)
BTW remember as John said; we're all on the same side :cool:

[Otto]

Originally posted by caterinka
Otto, I'm going to go over this one more time in hope that you'll get it:

MadPict suggested that Applefritter might be a better place to disucss breaking open your iPod because they do that sort of thing there. They specialize in it. We don't. Because we don't always have all the answers, we are unafraid to suggest that more information might be gleaned from another source. Bob would have said 'don't discuss that here' if that is what he meant.
But that's not what he actually *said* at all.

I think if you want to carry out this challenge you should take it to a site where hardware modification is more appropriate, like Applefritter.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how anyone could think that this doesn't imply "hardware modification discussion is not appropriate here". If that's not the case, then fine. Sorry for the confusion. But all you had to do was word it in a way that wasn't confusing. If you want to say that nother place might be more useful, then how about "Hey, you guys might find more useful info over at AppleFritter." ?

Talk about breaking into your iPod all you want. No one minds that. Please don't talk about software or firmware hacks as they violate the license agreement and we don't want trouble. The law is probably on the side of the individuals doing the reverse engineering, but the law might not be on the side of a site that is interpreted as having promoted the violation of a license agreement. No, Apple probably won't sue us, but we don't want to take that gamble. We just don't.
That's fine. I understand that. As long as we're clear. I may think it's a dumb policy to disallow software/firmware hacks, and I'll certainly tell you so too, but hey, it's your forum.

Edit: And BTW, promotion of a crime is not a crime itself. I can say it's a good idea to go out and kill random people on the street, and I have not done anything illegal. And if someone actually then does it, I've still not done anything illegal. :D

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by Otto

...
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how anyone could think that this doesn't imply "hardware modification discussion is not appropriate here".Actually, I never interpreted it as that at all. I understood exactly what Bob meant which was "we're not the appropriate site for discussion of hardware modification". Despite that, iPodlounge is my home so I chose not to take the discussion over to that "other site".

:)

[eustacescrubb]

Otto,

You still have not apologised to Bob for calling him a gutless coward. It is not optional. Ask around; SOP at iPodlounge is that if you insult someone, you're asked to apologise. Please don't post in this or any other thread until you apologise to Bob.

As for your other comments, since I've known Bob for 20 months, and you've been posting here for less than a month, I'd say that odds are high that my interpretation of Bob's comment is more likely the more accurate one. Neither I nor Cate have not told anyone to go to the forums Bob linked, so I don't understand why you think there's a mixed message in what we've written and the fact that the thread is open. Again, we're asking for discretion in what you chose to post, because of our forum's high profile, but we also want to support people's curiosity and legal tinkering. It's a fine line. If you violate an actual rule, we'll make sure you'll know.

Now, just to make sure we're clear here: you need to apologise to Bob before posting in this or any other thread. The apology is not optional.

[Otto]

Originally posted by eustacescrubb
Otto,

You still have not apologised to Bob for calling him a gutless coward. It is not optional. Ask around; SOP at iPodlounge is that if you insult someone, you're asked to apologise. Please don't post in this or any other thread until you apologise to Bob.

As for your other comments, since I've known Bob for 20 months, and you've been posting here for less than a month, I'd say that odds are high that my interpretation of Bob's comment is more likely the more accurate one. Neither I nor Cate have not told anyone to go to the forums Bob linked, so I don't understand why you think there's a mixed message in what we've written and the fact that the thread is open. Again, we're asking for discretion in what you chose to post, because of our forum's high profile, but we also want to support people's curiosity and legal tinkering. It's a fine line. If you violate an actual rule, we'll make sure you'll know.

Now, just to make sure we're clear here: you need to apologise to Bob before posting in this or any other thread. The apology is not optional.
I did not call Bob a gutless coward, as I said before. And if you feel otherwise or still can't understand a joke when you see it, then please delete my account, as I am not apologizing for something I did not say.

As far as your interpretation goes, I frankly don't give a #### what you or anyone else's interpretation of his post was. My interpretation was as I stated it. If it was not what he meant, then I misunderstood. Simple as that.

[eustacescrubb]

Guess what, Otto?

You don't get to play that game here. An implied insult is an insult all the same. If you email Bob and apologise to him, we'll re-activate your account. Otherwise, you remain banned. Ironically, I was pretty much on your side as far as the question of posting firmware hacks goes, though I'm in the minority of moderators. The AMG Memorial Rule once again is proven: if you're impolite, you'll alienate the very people who could and would have helped you.

[tonicboy]

Originally posted by eustacescrubb
The AMG Memorial Rule once again is proven...What is this AMG Memorial Rule that people keep referring to?

[eustacescrubb]

The AMG Memorial Rule: The most certain way to ensure that your case won't be heard is to insult one of the people who will decide its outcome.

Named after AMG, who proved the rule, time and again.

[reid]

come on give it up. leave otto alone. are you all crazy. please think before posting a reply.

[ashawley]

OK, I've thought about this long and hard. Took a walk in the garden, walked my dog, did a little yoga, ate some veggie burger and generally just chilled out. So, I've thought long and hard.

My conclusion?

No, we're not all crazy.

But thanks for asking, I had a nice time taking it easy. ;)

Adam

[bsodmike]

I can say it's a good idea to go out and kill random people on the street, and I have not done anything illegal. And if someone actually then does it, I've still not done anything illegal.

HAHAH....

First of all I dont want to have my account closed please!

a) in some sort of way I feel for otto as he does have a 'partially valid' point about the rules, but then again Bob is totally correct. Safeguarding the forum is No. 1.

b) if you read carefully otto did NOT call bob whatever you think he did, he was just hinting that he DID NOT call bob that. (does this make any sense lol)

c) otto, be a sport and say sorry, what have you got to lose other than your account?

As I said, dont kill me for my views....Just a shame this got as ugly as it has.

P.S. All this EU cap talk wouldn't be around if Apple did not do their job. I mean I find this whole frech/us db issue entirely thick. All Apple is doing is getting a lot of their customers possibly *trash* their Pods, and increase replacements for Apple as no one is gonna say 'Doh, I was hacking my pod'!

[eustacescrubb]

bsodmike,

My response (http://ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=32111#post32111) is in the appropriate thread.

[secondshuffle]

I think there was a hack on hackaday to replace a ipod HD with a 300gb apple one :eek: