Macintosh Information? [Archive]

Joe

05-12-2003, 01:49 PM

OK, you asked for it...

I understand one can't complare MHz ratings, just like the Intel / AMD game, so that isn't an issue. What Mac can compete with a 3GHz Intel? I mean, I don't want to be waiting 7 hours as my machine encodes DV to DVD compliat MPEG-2.

I would like to use some of my current hardware with the new Mac. Do Macs have standard IDE interfaces?

Can I use my existing Western Digital 7200rpm 180GB HDD?
Can I use my Sony DRU500A DVD?RW?
How about my flat panel (VGA connector) monitor?
Willl the Mac interface with the Netgear MR814 wireless router?

Other hardware questons.

Main use of machine is DV -> DVD editting and encoding. The resulting DVD must be playable on set-top boxes. Other uses include Internet development (i maintain several websites), and digital photo editting/archiving. I have just learned C++ and would like to try my hand at software creation as well. Don't travel much, so I don't need a portable. On a $2000.oo overall budget, what is recommended?

More general questions:

How does one install/remove software? Windows has the add/remove programs interface.

How does one launch programs? Windows has the start button which lists all available applications.

Does Mac support password protected multiple users? On my XP box, my wife and I have seperate accounts which keeps our email/internet bookmarks/start menu/ etc. personalized for each of us. Love it.

Does Mac support limited users? On my XP box, my son (4) has an account where there are no options in the start menu except for his learning games. There is no way he can screw around with the system and we can just let him play without worrying.

Software availability:

What software is available for creating DVDs? I currently am using Vegas 4.0 + DVD, and would need something at that level. Of particular importance is the creation of the DVD menus and navigation. Vegas DVD Architect makes it easy.

I have purchased some expensive (for me anyway) products, such as Adobe Photoshop. Will I have to re-purchase, or can I trade a windows license for a mac one?

I need a photo management application such as Adobe Photoshop Album.

I need a good firewall, such as ZoneAlarm Pro.

Currently use WordPerfect Office 2002. Need a good office suite that can import Microsoft Office files, but do not want to use Microsoft Office.

What about instant messaging? Currently use Trillian which lets me talk to ICQ, AOL, Yahoo, and MSN all in one application. Anything for the Mac?

I have many more questions, but this is a good start. Thanks!

selcouth

05-13-2003, 01:56 AM

yes yes yes! i want these answers as well :D only i don't want a desktop.. i want a 12" powerbook w/super drive.. i'm close to buying it too.. just need to know a lot of the above questions.. like different users.. and can you lock the desktop.. etc.. :D

Cozzie

05-13-2003, 10:44 AM

Sorry I can't answer them all, but I've taken a stab at a few!

Originally posted by Joe

What Mac can compete with a 3GHz Intel?
Any G4 system should probably be fine - that means PowerBooks, eMacs, iMacs and PowerMacs. They all have their different merits, so I suggest you check out Apple.com to compare them.

Originally posted by Joe
The resulting DVD must be playable on set-top boxes.

That's fine. You could probably use your Sony DVD burner, but Apple's inbuilt DVD burners (SuperDrives) are easily the best. With a SuperDrive you can use iDVD (free with all SuperDrive equipped Macs), which is quite a cool little app.

Originally posted by Joe Don't travel much, so I don't need a portable. On a $2000.oo overall budget, what is recommended?[/B]
Either an eMac or an iMac would be perfect for you. Both have DVD burners - it just depends on whether you want a CRT or LCD screen.

Originally posted by Joe
1. How does one install/remove software?How does one launch programs?
2. Does Mac support password protected multiple users?
3. Does Mac support limited users?
4. What software is available for creating DVDs?
5. I need a photo management application such as Adobe Photoshop Album.
6. What about instant messaging?
[/B]
Okay, let's see...
1. You just drag the app onto the HD. To delete it you drag it to the trash. It's that easy.
2. Yes, multiple users are fully supported in the same fashion as XP.
3. To a certain extent limited users are supported. Just sure you are a system admin (and your son isn't!) and you can tinker around with what he can and can't use.
4. iDVD is available with all SuperDrive equipped Macs. It's probably the best entry-level DVD creation app around! It's dead-easy to use, too!
5. iPhoto is great for your digital photos. You can make web pages, print photos, order cool photo books, order prints and a lot more.
6. There is iChat from Apple, but that is only compatible with AIM. Of course, Yahoo Messenger and MSN Messenger are available but I would choose either Fire.app or Proteus. Both of the later are compatible with virtually every IM client around.

Joe

05-13-2003, 11:07 AM

Good answers! Thank you. I have a question:

Originally posted by Cozzie
1. You just drag the app onto the HD. To delete it you drag it to the trash. It's that easy.

Now this has me a little confused. Let's take, Photoshop7. Windows goes through an install routine that copies over 2,000 files across my sysem, and adds all kinds of entries into the system registry. The only way to uninstall it is to use the add/remove wizard, and that likely won't remove all the registry entries or any shared Adobe files.

You are telling me that on the Mac, I simply drag one icon off the CD to the HD and that's it? And then, if I wish to rid my system of Photoshop7, I simply drag that one icon to the trash? I don't believe it for a minute.

I've viewed the "dock" demo at the Apple OSX website... pretty slick for launching often used files and apps, but what about something that I only use once a week or so... is there an application menu like the start menu, or do I head to the disk drive and search for applications?

RenaissanceGirl

05-13-2003, 02:59 PM

It's true - I had a hard time getting used to it myself (used PCs for 5 years before switching last summer). You just have to drag the Adobe Photoshop folder into the trash and it's gone. If you want to be really neat, you can also delete the preference file... but it's a tiny file and not a big deal.

As for having quick access to semi-used applications, I simply have the Applications folder on my dock. If there is a folder on the dock, you can right click it and have easy access to all it's contents. It functions just like the "start" menu.

selcouth

05-14-2003, 02:17 AM

what about interfacing with windows networked machines.. like.. being able to view security stuffs across a domain.. or configure a win2k advanced server.. or deal with NTFS permissions.. am i pretty much screwed with the mac.. or do i have some control over this stuff? (and can i lock my desktop with a password??)

Kenny

05-14-2003, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by Cozzie

Originally posted by Joe
What Mac can compete with a 3GHz Intel?

Any G4 system should probably be fine - that means PowerBooks, eMacs, iMacs and PowerMacs. They all have their different merits, so I suggest you check out Apple.com to compare them.

What???? must... not... start... debate.....:rolleyes:

AMG

05-14-2003, 11:37 AM

Kenny,

Dude, I'm with you. We both deserve medals (or at least participation ribbons) for self restraint. :)

One question/comment though about a semi-important part of this whole scheme...?

Does the SuperDrive have a DVD-R/RW or a DVD+R/RW?

That will make a huge difference in DVD media being read by stand-alone players...

Basically though...the Apple optical mouse is really cool. That's a big selling to me. :) I only wish it had two buttons and a glowing scroll wheel.

Originally posted by Kenny
What???? must... not... start... debate.....:rolleyes:

ipodtodd

05-14-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by AMG

One question/comment though about a semi-important part of this whole scheme...?

Does the SuperDrive have a DVD-R/RW or a DVD+R/RW?

That will make a huge difference in DVD media being read by stand-alone players...

Of course they uses DVD-R/RW. Come on, give Apple at least a little credit ;)

eustacescrubb

05-14-2003, 02:40 PM

What Mac can compete with a 3GHz Intel? I mean, I don't want to be waiting 7 hours as my machine encodes DV to DVD compliat MPEG-2.

It depends on what you're using the machine for. Most professional tests reveal that Macs are faster at some things, PCs at others, and they're the same in some circumstances.
It takes my Mac about 1 hour to write a full-length (4.7 GB, single-layer) DVD using iDVD.
The thing about GHz is that it's only one way of measuring processing power. Clock speed is actually a very bad way to measure processing power, since the architechture of Pentium and G4 chips is so different. Like bitrates in mp3s, a lot of this stuff is about user preferences and perceptions. My G4 works plenty fast for me, and I use Photoshop, and do DV work often.
And it depends on which software you use. Premire, which is still available only for OS 9, renders slowly on my iMac. But Final Cut Pro is quite fast. Some folks speculate too that since Adobe competes with Apple in the video software realm, it's dragging its feet on OSX video software.
SUer habits also matter: I have a friend who is one of those "Has ten RAM-eating applications open all at once" types, and his computer, with more RAM and the same chip, runs much more slowly. So some of it has to do with user habits as well.

Kenny

05-14-2003, 02:54 PM

Well, without trying to offend anyone here, let me get some facts straightened out.

There is absolutely no G4 chip that can even come close to the power of the topline AMD Bartons or P4's. And Im not even gong to start talking about the upcoming Hammers & Prescotts! :D
Now the 'rumored' PPC970 chip is supposedly pretty fast, but it's never been tested with the mac archetecture, so who knows how it will perform. Plus they wont even be in macs until next year at the earliest.

That being said, the G4's are still plenty fast, and can perform alot of the popular applications without problem. I simply just wanted to state the facts.

eustacescrubb

05-14-2003, 03:05 PM

You're missing my point, Kenny - that processing power is affected by a multitude of factors. Unless someone has set up a "race" between two computers, there's no way to tell if a Mac with dual 1GHz G4 chips and 1 GB of RAM running Final Cut Pro 4 will encode a DV stream faster than a PC with a 2 GHz P4 abd 1 GB of RAM running Premire 6. There are so many variables, that a "race" would be the only way to figure it out. And that's not even adding in variables like Operating System (XP? ME? 2000? OS 10.2? 10.1? OS 9?) or how many other programs are open at once! Once one adds in other time factors, like how long it takes to tell the computer to do something (i.e., how many buttons must one click; how many dialog boxes and warnings pop up before the operation begins, etc.), or how long it takes to open and close programs, import data from another program, there's just no way to assess apart from individual users making up thier own minds.

Unless the time differential in processors is in the order of minutes, it's hard to see what the point is - thirty seconds saved in faster rendering might be lost again in how long it takes to navigate files and folders to open a file, or clicking "OK" in numerous dialog boxes.

The point being that the matter is, in large part, very subjective - like which bitrate to use on an mp3.

As it pertains to Joe's questions, the issue isn't "Do the specs of a Mac have higher numbers than the specs of an equivalent PC" but rather: Will a certain Mac work well for Joe, given the work he wants to do with it, his working habits, his knowledge of computers, etc. And that's a question that only Joe can answer.;)

Jackonicko

05-14-2003, 03:26 PM

There's also stability and ease of operation to take into account. A streamlined UI and a small but significant reduction in crashes, hangs and other unwanted events will have no impact on the speed with which individual operations are performed, but may save the user a great deal of time and headaches.

A G4 Mac may be marginally slower than the latest P4 for some things (but not for others) but it may still represent a better time-saving tool for the user. Depending on what he wants to do with it, of course.

c.c.r.

05-14-2003, 03:54 PM

Speaking to the "is a G4 as fast as a P4" question (again):

Since the kernel is so completely different betwixt the two OS's, I'm of the opinion that there's really no way to say with 100% clarity that "Intel-compatible CPU X" is faster or slower than "Mac CPU X" -- it's impossible for the same piece of software to run on both processors, so how can one benchmark it properly?

If the processor "feels" too slow to you, it's too slow. If it feels "Just right" to you, then it's just right, buy it and be happy. Otherwise, enjoy the conjecture.

Joe

05-14-2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by eustacescrubb
Will a certain Mac work well for Joe, given the work he wants to do with it, his working habits, his knowledge of computers, etc. And that's a question that only Joe can answer.;)

Unfortunately, Joe can't answer that question because he has never even touched a Mac before.

However, I understand completely about the MHz... I didn't ask what Macintosh ran at 3.0GHz... I asked what Macintosh performed similarly. Even AMD's hammer processors run at much slower MHz than the Intel processors they are whipping. MHz really doesn't mean that much as it used to.

I found the Barefeats webpage (http://www.barefeats.com/) to be quite helpful in determining how a Mac will perform with current Intel achitecture. Yes, the 3GHz Intel is marginally faster, but the Macs are hanging right in there.

I have decided to go for a new Mac. But (there always is one...),I have also decided to wait for the new IBM processors to arrive, so it might be some time before I buy... I just hope it is sooner rather than later.

Jackonicko

05-14-2003, 06:52 PM

I'd buy now. Macs are at an all time low price, and the dual processor G4 kicks butt, if you need the speed. Otherwise the 12 inch Powerbook is a winner at a winning price, and the iBooks are so cheap as to be nearly disposable.

c.c.r.

05-14-2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Jackonicko
I'd buy now. Macs are at an all time low price, and the dual processor G4 kicks butt, if you need the speed. Otherwise the 12 inch Powerbook is a winner at a winning price, and the iBooks are so cheap as to be nearly disposable.

Knowing full well that you were exaggerating, I'd just like to say that I'd LOVE to have the job that you have, Jack! To have $999 to spend on something that's disposable would be fantastic!

I had to save up 3 months to buy my $399 iPod, hehe.

At this time, I would like to formally and publicly apologize for ever being rude to, disagreeing with, or otherwise flaming Jackonicko....

...Jack, please PM me and I'll send you address to where you may ship the iBook.

:D :D :D

Jackonicko

05-14-2003, 09:39 PM

Alas I did qualify it with the word 'nearly'.

But the point is that the always 'affordable' iBook has plummeted in price from ?1,500 (that's what my 500 MHz 10 GB iBook cost) to a mere ?749 while gaining an 800 MHz processor and a 30 GB HD. That's a 50% price drop with a 300% increase in HD size and a more than 50% hike in processor speed. It now costs less than a pair of iPods......

And you hit a slightly sore spot, cos I now have NO EXCUSE not to upgrade Mrs Jacko from her PB5300 (my old hack) to a new iBook. Some might say that she deserves it for sleeping with me, washing my socks and putting up with me generally. That's clearly all it takes to get an iBook from me, but I expect you no longer like the conditions, Kurt? ;)

selcouth

05-14-2003, 09:40 PM

oooh.. i found this (http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/compatibility.html).. which talks about compatability with windows enviroments.. NT permissions and domains.. dude it's even compatibile with Active Directory.. which means i could take it to work.. and actually replace my pc :D

selcouth

05-14-2003, 09:42 PM

haha.. i dunno jacko.. give me a 12" with built in airport, 60gb hard drive, combo drive, and maxed ram.. i'll think abt it :x

c.c.r.

05-15-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Jackonicko
<snip!>
That's clearly all it takes to get an iBook from me, but I expect you no longer like the conditions, Kurt? ;)
<snip!>

Okay... I'm out... I'll just keep working on Tom, Dennis, and Bob now.

c.c.r.

05-15-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by selcouth
oooh.. i found this (http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/compatibility.html).. which talks about compatability with windows enviroments.. NT permissions and domains.. dude it's even compatibile with Active Directory.. which means i could take it to work.. and actually replace my pc :D

I like the last line in that linked page:

"All in all, Jaguar gives you what you need to exist peacefully side by side with your Windows brethren."

Ahh, now isn't that refreshing? Everyone take note, even Apple is an advocate of existing peacefully with your Windows bretheren! See? All platform users can get along in harmony!

PS: Selcouth... it can work on your NT domain, aye... but that's only half of the puzzle... it still has to run your software (or software that can replace your current PC software).

Us Novell users (blech) have a harder time with Macs... the client costs around $100 a seat, and Classic apps don't like interacting with mounts created by an IP-only Novell client for OS X. Still tryin, though. I'd love that kind of seamless integration with Novell.

Course, I'd love to be an an Active Directory domain too. Sigh. *grumbles more about Novell*

*grumble*

*loves dragging threads off-topic*

Timmy Yak

05-15-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Jackonicko
Some might say that she deserves it for sleeping with me, washing my socks and putting up with me generally. That's clearly all it takes to get an iBook from me... ;)

Well if I don't have to wash your socks, I'll think about it.;) :D

selcouth

05-15-2003, 04:01 PM

ewwie ewwie novell :P yay AD! lol i'm so excited.. now i just gotta sell someone my laptop so i can go buy a powerbook.. i'm like seriously totally convinced.. the only thing left is the money :D ohh.. and superdrive vs combodrive.. :x

Timmy Yak

05-15-2003, 04:06 PM

If you're gonna go balls out then get the superdrive.:D Then you can burn DVD's.

selcouth

05-15-2003, 05:36 PM

yea.. see my thinking is.. "why on earth would i want to burn dvd's?" i mean.. if i'm goin to buy a powerbook in the first place i'm putting down $2000.. basically.. so another $200 who cares right? but then i'm like.. oh well maybe in the future i might want to burn dvd's.. i dunno.. it's soooo slow.. i'm into dv but i send it across the net.. not on disk.. 4.7 gb to back up would be nice.. but an hour to burn it? gosh.. and also.. i could just get a faster external drive if/when they come out... soo.. bah i'd prolly end up doing it :P why the heck not? lol

ToddW

05-15-2003, 06:59 PM

I have been an avid PC user for awhile. I am also very hardware and software proficient. I can build my own, high performance windows based system and have never had it crash, except for hardware failures. I would what you call one of those novice PC builders who never have to call tech support, who are always getting called by friends or family to either build them a PC or fix their PC. The next time I but a computer I am thinking of buying a Mac. My main concern is can I still have the performance I have with my PC (not talking processor speed) i'm talking loading programs, burning CDs, application performance. These are the things that really matter to a user.

Can I get this with a Mac. If I have a problem with my Mac can I open it up, replace the harddriver, reformat, all the stuff I do with my PC. Are the same type of applications availble for a Macintosh that are available for a PC. It is things like this that I am more concerned about with the whole switch. I won't the same performance and useability on a Mac that I do with my PC.

AMG

05-16-2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by ToddW
ICan I get this with a Mac. If I have a problem with my Mac can I open it up, replace the harddriver, reformat, all the stuff I do with my PC. Are the same type of applications availble for a Macintosh that are available for a PC. It is things like this that I am more concerned about with the whole switch. I won't the same performance and useability on a Mac that I do with my PC.

Mac's use normal IDE drives now a days. They're very very easy to open (the G4 towers, not iMac's). No screws, just a latch on the side that pops down...bringing with it the motherboard and near everything else.

The # of applications available on Mac's and Windows varies dramatically. However, there's always good ole' Virtual PC to emulate a PC. It's frustratingly slow if you're a PC user that's comfy with a fast machine, but, it is very stable. :) I wouldn't use it for any high-end computing but it can help you run some programs that don't have mac equivalents.

Mac's are cool. If I had room on my desk I'd have one too.

selcouth

05-17-2003, 02:55 PM

my mouse is hovering over the submit button.. my credit card info is filled out.. i'm just not sure if i want to do it right now.. the total comes to $2362 after education discount.. for the 12" powerbook g4 (60gb/superdrive/applecare/256ram/airport extreme).. i'm so sold on them.. i went to the apple store last night.. and it's so beautiful.. i played with it for an hour.. and i want one so bad :D sometime soon i'm gonna click the button..

Jackonicko

05-17-2003, 08:03 PM

Do you NEED to burn DVDs? Do you need to do so now, rather than buying a faster, external FW DVD/R drive in (say) six months time?

Do you NEED a 60 GB HD? Really? Rather, than, say, buying an external FW HD in (say) three months time?

Do you need Airport extreme?

Do you NEED a G4 chip? You could get a 900 MHz iBook built to order with a 60GB HD, Airport Extreme, 640 MB of RAM (with that it should be every bit as fast as an 867 MHz G4 with only 256 MB.....) and Applecare for $1799 with your educational discount. That's $561 less.

If you do need a G4 chip, then why not the basic Powerbook 12 inch?

In an ideal world, of course, we all want everything, and we want it RIGHT NOW. But it is possible to compromise.

But you are a student, and (perhaps unsurprisingly) the full price of a set-up which many pro-users could not justify is stinging. Maybe you should scale down your expectations, a bit?

caterinka

05-17-2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Jackonicko
But you are a student, and (perhaps unsurprisingly) the full price of a set-up which many pro-users could not justify is stinging. Maybe you should scale down your expectations, a bit?

That's mighty paternal advice, Jacko. I thought you said you didn't have kids. ;)

I'm planning to purchase roughly the same configuration in another year when my daughter goes off to college. I figure if I do it right the first time, she'll have graduated and be self-supporting before it becomes overly obsolete.

Jackonicko

05-18-2003, 09:10 PM

I have watched enough spoiled and unspoiled children to

a) know the difference
b) realise that not having absolutely everything you want, down to the last MB of RAM, right when you want it, does not destroy your life.......

But then it's easy when you don't have kids demanding the latest and greatest piece of kit. ;)

selcouth

05-19-2003, 12:09 AM

well.. i understand what you're saying about the dvd-r.. it's a tossup really because no i don't NEED it right now.. but it's almost worth the $200 to have it BUILT in even tho it will be slower than something external in the future.. that's the whole point.. BUILT IN..
the hard drive is a no brainer.. it's $47 to go from 40gb to 60gb..

the 256mb ram.. i'm buying it "bare" because i can get ram cheaper than from apple.. (i'll max it out in a few months)..

i need airport.. not extreme.. but extreme is all they offer for the powerbook so it is what i must buy..

g4 vs. g3.. you know kurt really put it into perspective.. buy into the NEW technology not the old.. so that's what i'll do..

i found if i register as an apple student developer.. and pay $99 for the membership.. i get mucho $ off the powerbook.. i think it comes down from $2362 (after student discount) to $2062.. i'm getting roughly $500 or so for my old laptop.. so that brings my total hit to around $1500.. think i'm gonna buy it in a few mins.. just kinda nervous :/