Thinking about selling iPods for a Zune

[Xomphos]

I know this thread is very Zune-based, but I am trying to get some iPod-owners opinions:

Hey,

One of my friends recently got a black, 4GB Zune and i am more impressed by it than I thought I would be. My 16GB iPod Touch recently ran into some problems and I hoipe to get it replaced this weekend with a refurb. After seeing my friends Zune and how smoothly it operates and is designed, I am considering selling my iPod Touch and Shuffle for a 8GB Black Zune. I am just really trying to debate if it is worth switching from iTunes/iPod to the zune ecosystem. After a while, while I love iPods, I am kind of bored of the iTunes/iPod ecosystem.

How is the Zune software? Is it like iTunes? How does it organize my music? Does it mess with the ID3 tags and screw stuff up like iTunes sometimes does? I love having my music organized with album art and everything, so i am kind of ocd about this factor. How is the wireless integration? Does that work well?

Basically, overall, what I am asking is if it is worth to go from an iPod Touch to a 8GB Zune (I don't really watch videos on the go i found)?

Any comments or suggestions? Helpful/informing links?

Thanks!

[iPod Dan J B]

I guess the best place to ask for advice on this would be on a Zune forum, simply because it is more likely you will find people on there who have made the jump from Apple to MS!

Dan

[kornchild2002]

I own a 30GB Zune, I won it at a Halo 3 midnight release party (it is the Halo 3 edition Zune) and was pretty pleased with it as my 5G 60GB iPod was acting up. The Zune PC software is basically a re-worked version of Windows Media Player. It has the same features but a much better UI. The Zune 1 PC software was pretty bad but Microsoft has made many improvements with the Zune 2 (and the newly released 2.5) PC software. So the transition of going from iTunes to the Zune software is made easier this go around. That being said, I still prefer iTunes simply because the UI is cleaner. The Zune software also likes to change the ID tags of your music (this is something that iTunes doesn't do, I don't know what problems you were having) and move the files around. It is setup this way by default. Just like iTunes, you can disable those settings so that the Zune software doesn't mess with your music files.

When it comes to Zune hardware, I think it is pretty decent. The firmware that the Zune runs is actually pretty good and you can tell that Apple took some elements from it when they released their iPod touch. I still think that the iPod touch has a better firmware simply because navigation is a whole lot easier but the Zune isn't bad. Wi-fi could be a whole lot better for the Zunes. You can share songs with other Zune units and sync via wi-fi. It is nice but wi-fi syncing eats up a lot of the battery and Zune to Zune sharing still isn't all it is cracked up to be. It would be nice if Microsoft added an online store to the Zune (it would be rather easy to navigate with their input device) and a couple of other wi-fi features. It would be a bonus if they released a keyboard so that one could browse the internet. My main gripe about the Zunes are their low resolution screens. You won't notice it on the 4GB and 8GB models but you will on the 30GB and 80GB ones. The 30GB/80GB models have screens that are about as big (or maybe bigger) as the screen used on the iPod touch. The problem is that they use a resolution of 320X240 which is too low. Album art, images, and videos come out too blurry.

I like the Zunes more and more but the iPod touch is better. Going from a 16GB iPod touch to a 8GB Zune is downgrading way too much. I can see going from a 16GB iPod touch to a 80GB Zune (and only the 80GB model) but not a 8GB model. Not only are you sacrificing storage space but you are sacrificing a boat load of features. Your music collection may not be over 8GB now but you don't know how big it will be in the future. Your music collection could be 10GB by the end of the year, then you will regret getting rid of the 16GB iPod touch.

I was just like you last year. I was getting tired of the whole iPod universe as well as with iTunes. It is not that they were bad but I just wanted something new. Winning the Halo 3 Zune really opened my eyes as it showed me that life outside of the iPod/iTunes universe really isn't good. There aren't that many accessories for other portables out there and everyone is trying to copy iTunes and iPods. I think it is better to own and use the product that everyone else is trying to copy. Microsoft is doing a good job with their Zune line and not really copying Apple but they still have quite a bit to go before it really starts competing with Apple. I wasn't expecting Microsoft's portables to come out and win over Apple, I do expect to see something nice in their next hardware update later this year.

Keep the iPod touch and get a new Zune later this year if you really want one.

[Code Monkey]

The Zune 1 PC software was pretty bad but Microsoft has made many improvements with the Zune 2 (and the newly released 2.5) PC software. So the transition of going from iTunes to the Zune software is made easier this go around.Did you actually use this software? Version 1 was 10X the software of version 2.X because it was a reworked version of WMP with all the strengths (and weaknesses).

The version 2 software is hands down the worst piece of music management software I've ever kept installed on my computer.

Yesterday's update makes it marginally more useful, but it's still way behind where it was before they "updated" it last year and nowhere close to as powerful as iTunes, Media Monkey, or even Creative's music management software (or Rhapsody, or even Yahoo!'s).

Before yesterday it was a wooden club in a sea of fire arms, now it's a wooden club that has a screw driver and bottle opener that folds out of the side.

I keep it installed and updated because I really hope that MS can eventually give iTunes some competition, but they're not even within visual range at this point on the software front.

[kornchild2002]

Yes, I actually used the Zune 1 software and feel that visually, Zune 2.x software is much more superior. I don't know what features they took away with the Zune 2.x software. I sync to my Zune about once a month just to put updated content on it so I can play the new files on my Xbox 360, that is it. I don't sync to it regularly and I rarely open the Zune's software. I will have to disagree with you in that the Zune software is far superior to Creative's crappy music management software. It seems as if creative wasn't even trying and they released their software just to keep the minimalists happy.

[Ricardo Dawkins]

hey...kornchild.....you and your old Zune...ahah.

and Code Monkey, you need to start singing a new song... software was updated...and guest what...we have NBC TV Shows...now !

@OP: if you sell the iTouch, get the Zune 80. Forget about the 8GB Zune. Later.

[kornchild2002]

I knew that you would post in here. I still don't see a need to criticize people especially whenever we are just stating our opinions. That and my old Zune runs the new firmware just fine. That and there is no such thing as an iTouch so the OP must be set then.

Edit: I should add that my Zune isn't even a year old yet. Microsoft released it in September of 2007 to coincide with the release of Halo 3. If that is old then your estimation of time is a little off.

[Code Monkey]

qnd Code Monkey, you need to start singing a new song... software was updated...and guest what...we have NBC TV Shows...now !I have the new software, and it is still awful. Like I said, it's a wooden club with a screwdriver and bottle opener now, wheee, I'm so impressed.

I'm not anti-Zune, I'm anti-bad software, and it's still very, very, very bad software whether or not you can buy NBC TV shows (not sure when that became a criterion for deciding if a player was good or not). If it were good software, I'd be all over it, but it's not good software.

Fancy background images and cool color schemes do not cover up for the fact that it's still way behind iTunes, Media Monkey, or J. River, the only three programs I consider adequate for music management.

It might get there one of these days, I'd genuinely love to see it get there, but I'm still firmly of the opinion that the entire 2.X line of the Zune software is still a step back to the cave. Yesterday it at least looked out and saw the sunlight, but that's all.

[Ricardo Dawkins]

@Korn
You need to update your Wifi Sync scenarios....
- Zune to Zune Wifi works with songs, photos/pictures, audio and video podcasts, Zune Cards
- Zune 2.5 update improved the battery, buddy. check it out.
- Stop trying to watch HD content on 3in screens. The video and the pictures looks fine on my Zune 80. What is the problem with you Zune 30?
- software doesnt use WMP codebase since November 2007. Build from zero.
- Software doesnt mess with my tags...did you update it, right ?
- Your move files around remarks is still w/o proof. Zune 2.x up to the latest version doesnt have options to move your files around. Period.

Why you dont tell the OP about the improvements on the device ?
Are you aware that the Zune doesnt requires software pre-procesing for GAPLESS ?
did you checked yours ?


You talk like an expert on zune matters around here...but by the looks of it you still have first-time user issues with the software ?
Can I give you a hand ?

@Monkey
LOL, Foobar and WMP both are way,way,way better than Media Monkey (it shows you use it only with iPods), iTunes and J.River ;)

/me back to Zune software creating some auto-playlist, updating ratings, checking the marketplace, the Social and looking at some Zune Cards...

[paranoidxe]

@Korn
You need to update your Wifi Sync scenarios....
- Zune to Zune Wifi works with songs, photos/pictures, audio and video podcasts, Zune Cards
- Zune 2.5 update improved the battery, buddy. check it out.
- Stop trying to watch HD content on 3in screens. The video and the pictures looks fine on my Zune 80. What is the problem with you Zune 30?
- software doesnt use WMP codebase since November 2007. Build from zero.
- Software doesnt mess with my tags...did you update it, right ?
- Your move files around remarks is still w/o proof. Zune 2.x up to the latest version doesnt have options to move your files around. Period.

Why you dont tell the OP about the improvements on the device ?
Are you aware that the Zune doesnt requires software pre-procesing for GAPLESS ?
did you checked yours ?


You talk like an expert on zune matters around here...but by the looks of it you still have first-time user issues with the software ?
Can I give you a hand ?

@Monkey
LOL, Foobar and WMP both are way,way,way better than Media Monkey (it shows you use it only with iPods), iTunes and J.River ;)


Well there goes your credibility.

However I'm with you on one point, I don't see why one would want to trade a shuffle + iPod Touch 16GB which would be roughly a $410 value for a zune 8GB thats worth $170 from amazon. At least trade for the top of the line Zune.

To trade a iPod Touch 16GB and a Shuffle for a 8GB Zune is just stupid and you'd regret it.

[kornchild2002]

@Korn
You need to update your Wifi Sync scenarios....
- Zune to Zune Wifi works with songs, photos/pictures, audio and video podcasts, Zune Cards
- Zune 2.5 update improved the battery, buddy. check it out.
- Stop trying to watch HD content on 3in screens. The video and the pictures looks fine on my Zune 80. What is the problem with you Zune 30?
- software doesnt use WMP codebase since November 2007. Build from zero.
- Software doesnt mess with my tags...did you update it, right ?
- Your move files around remarks is still w/o proof. Zune 2.x up to the latest version doesnt have options to move your files around. Period.

I don't even know if I want to reply. Seriously, we all know that you like your Zune and all but why register to a website dedicated to iPods. Do you want me to register at the Zune forums and start preaching about iPods? No? I didn't think so.

Where to begin... As I said, the Zune has wireless syncing. I thought that would encompass everything from videos to songs, pictures, podcasts (hmm, I wonder why they call them podcasts?), etc. I didn't know that I would have to spell it out. I know that the new Zune firmware improved battery life (I am not your buddy) but it is still bad when syncing via wi-fi. I tried it out by syncing about 2GB worth of content. It consumed a little under 1/4 of my Zune's battery.

I am not trying to watch HD content on a tiny screen. The Zune can't play HD content and neither can any iPod. The Zune's screens are blurry, period. It doesn't matter whether you own a 30GB model or the 80GB model. Now I know what you are going to say: "The 80GB Zune uses the same screen as the iPod touch" as you have said that in the past. No, that is not right. The 80GB Zune still uses a screen resolution of 320X240 (it is actually 240X320 but everyone turns their Zunes to the side to watch video). The iPod touch's screen uses a resolution of 320X480 (or 480X320). That produces a much, much, much clearer picture. The bigger, hard drive based Zunes have blurry screens, period. This has been the main gripe from Zune reviews. The Zune 80 improved the clarity by adding a glass coating but it is still nowhere near the iPod touch.

I know that the software hasn't used WMP code for quite a bit of time but still, at the heart of it, Microsoft just re-branded WMP whether they rewrote new code or not. That is alright as many people like WMP but still, it is nowhere near where iTunes is at. I have updated to the newer software and yes, it still messes with my tags. It still moves the files around. You really want proof? You really want me to record video of the Zune software moving my files? I am not going through all that trouble, sorry.

I can tell the OP about the improvements of the newer Zunes over the older 30GB model but that would be a waste of time seeing as the OP is looking to trade for a 8GB Zune. I am aware that the Zune doesn't require pre-processing for gapless playback but it doesn't playback my AAC files gaplessly anyway. I would rather have iTunes take the 2 seconds to analyze an album than have to listen to it with gaps on the Zune. Oh, my AAC files are in fact gapless as my iPods play them back gaplessly and so does Foobar2000.

Oh, nice name drop by the way but stating that WMP is "way, way, way" better than Media Monkey, iTunes, and J.River just lost what little credibility you have.

I don't mean to get in a ####ing contest here but really (or maybe someone should just go get the tape measures just to be safe), why are you posting here on iLounge when everything that comes out of your mouth praises the Zune? We get it, you like you Zune and its software and its blurry screen, that is fine. We like our iPods, that should be fine with you. We keep posting our opinion (some of it is fact which one keeps failing to realize like the blurry screens, that is a fact!) and yet it gets crapped all over.

I think this is the last time I am going to address the issue. I have a 30GB Zune, I stated my opinions about the software and its updated firmware, so I am done. Either way, a 16GB iPod touch is worth more than a 8GB Zune. It is worth more than a 80GB Zune. If anything, a 16GB iPod touch would be worth trading for a 80GB Zune and a 4GB/8GB Zune.

[jhollington]

Leaving aside all of the details and getting back to the OP's point....

Like Code Monkey, I've tried the Zune software enough to realize that I'm not fan of it as compared to iTunes, but that's about the extent of it. It has a pretty enough interface, but as with many early-release Microsoft products, that's about all it seems to have going for it compared to much of the more mature competition that's out there. I haven't personally looked at the new v2.5 in-depth, but I don't really have any motivation to.

The fact that Microsoft does seem to be aggressively updating the device is encouraging, but then again when you're the underdog you have to do this sort of thing. Apple has already proven to themselves that for every one user who complains about a new feature they can't have to free, there are probably ten users who will happily pay to upgrade to the new model. I don't consider Microsoft's provision of free upgrades so much altruistic as necessary based on their current position.

However, leaving aside all of the individual pros and cons, since with the exception of a few Zune (ahem) "enthusiasts" around here you're not going to get a very balanced opinion (most of us are here because we've decided that we prefer the iPod to varying degrees), I think the bottom line is not to be sucked in by a "shiny new toy" syndrome... You say you're bored with the iPod ecosystem, but you haven't really said that it's stopped working for you.... If there is some specific reason that the Zune appeals to you over the iPod, other than just "being bored" then by all means it's something to consider, but change for change's sake will often end up being a more frustrating experience than continuing to enjoy what you already have. You're not going to find the transition from the iPod and iTunes to any other device to be a smooth process, and you'll spend more time and energy going through this than you will actually enjoying your media content.

[Code Monkey]

@Monkey
LOL, Foobar and WMP both are way,way,way better than Media Monkey (it shows you use it only with iPods), iTunes and J.River ;)Actually, I don't use the others with ANYTHING other than media. The very fact that I can't use their complex smartlists as live updating on any player is exactly why I use an iPod. It's about being able to manage music, which you don't seem to get. IF I happen to already have all my music perfectly tagged, organised, normalised now and forever more, and I'm never going to want to add another track, or search for a complex subset of my music, and I'm satisfied to only ever play back albums or manually created playlists, then, yeah, I can use something like Foobar or WinAmp to play back songs faster and easier than my three programs (I use Foobar all the time for computer playback of audio when I'm editing or otherwise auditioning it).

But I am not.

I want to be able create a weighted music mix based on ratings, playcount, how long it's been since tracks were played, considers how recently tracks were added AND also blocks content from 30 different artists, a handful of genres, and even a few specific songs that I've decided aren't appropriate for my children, and just as easily I want one for my wife, and another for my buddies who aren't music sluts like me. I want to be able to get a strange idea in my head and instantly pull up all the music in my 30K plus track library that matches that idea no matter how odd or complex.

The Zune software limits me to searching album artist, rating, genre, date added, year, composer, and playcount, that's it. Each autoplaylist has ALL of those fields, one each, and while you can leave any blank as you see fit, you cannot search for anything else, and you cannot add more fields. Is it better than nothing? Absolutely. Does it even come close to what iTunes could do five years ago? Absolutely not.

People have ranted about how iTunes doesn't read certain standard id3 fields such as rating, and yet the Zune software doesn't even read the comments field, that's assinine in 2008.


/me back to Zune software creating some auto-playlist, updating ratings, checking the marketplace, the Social and looking at some Zune Cards...I've already addressed what I find problematic about the new autoplaylists.

Ratings? Ratings are simplified to the point of being useless as far as I'm concerned, why have them at all if it's broke down into like/don't like? Why do you have songs in your library you don't like? I use ratings to weight the proportion of music in automatically generated mix lists relative to how much I like songs. Other people might use them to bring up their "Top 40" (aka 5 stars) and then their "Just The Hits" (aka 4 & 5 star) and then their "All Good Music" (aka their 3, 4 & 5 stars), and use 1 and 2 stars for album skits and stuff they want to delete, but what is the use if it stops at the point of yes or no about a song?

Marketplace? Why do you care so much about the Zune market place? Wouldn't you rather get your music from someone who doesn't have any interest in your player (CDs, Amazon, eMusic). I don't use the iTunes store unless I have to (which in four years has equalled a whole four tracks, and if I could go back it would only be three). When you champion something as consumer unfriendly as yet another closed platform media store (having mp3 music in a world with the Amazon mp3 store doesn't make it any more open when all the video content is as proprietarily locked down as ever), you really come across as a fanboy.

Zune cards? Hahahaha. Who bloody cares? We've had this for years in the form of Last.fm. If I want to be social about my music I've already got a far larger social scene. The only reason to want to take part in the Zune Social is so you can huddle like the FLDS members secure in your being better and different than everyone else. No thanks.

[Xomphos]

Wow, thanks for the long and informative replies. Despite the intense arguing I saw (which was kind of helpful actually), I think I got a lot out of this.

I believe I will stay with the 16GB iPod Touch. That is a good point made about since it still works great for me, there is no real reason to switch.

Once again, I appreciate your responses. Thanks.

[Scarpad]

I know this thread is very Zune-based, but I am trying to get some iPod-owners opinions:

Hey,

One of my friends recently got a black, 4GB Zune and i am more impressed by it than I thought I would be. My 16GB iPod Touch recently ran into some problems and I hoipe to get it replaced this weekend with a refurb. After seeing my friends Zune and how smoothly it operates and is designed, I am considering selling my iPod Touch and Shuffle for a 8GB Black Zune. I am just really trying to debate if it is worth switching from iTunes/iPod to the zune ecosystem. After a while, while I love iPods, I am kind of bored of the iTunes/iPod ecosystem.

How is the Zune software? Is it like iTunes? How does it organize my music? Does it mess with the ID3 tags and screw stuff up like iTunes sometimes does? I love having my music organized with album art and everything, so i am kind of ocd about this factor. How is the wireless integration? Does that work well?

Basically, overall, what I am asking is if it is worth to go from an iPod Touch to a 8GB Zune (I don't really watch videos on the go i found)?

Any comments or suggestions? Helpful/informing links?

Thanks!

I have a touch and a Zune 80 the hdd based zune not the flash. The software just got a huge upgrade last week with the latest firmware and SW upgrade, I can finally call it usable with the ability to edit tags for audio and video, so as of now its not bad at all, the devices are nice, and I think sound a bit better than my touch, of course they might be for two differnt audiences, the zune I think with emphesize audio, where as the Touch was mainly put out for its video and wifi capabilities

[Scarpad]

I don't even know if I want to reply. Seriously, we all know that you like your Zune and all but why register to a website dedicated to iPods. Do you want me to register at the Zune forums and start preaching about iPods? No? I didn't think so.

Where to begin... As I said, the Zune has wireless syncing. I thought that would encompass everything from videos to songs, pictures, podcasts (hmm, I wonder why they call them podcasts?), etc. I didn't know that I would have to spell it out. I know that the new Zune firmware improved battery life (I am not your buddy) but it is still bad when syncing via wi-fi. I tried it out by syncing about 2GB worth of content. It consumed a little under 1/4 of my Zune's battery.

I am not trying to watch HD content on a tiny screen. The Zune can't play HD content and neither can any iPod. The Zune's screens are blurry, period. It doesn't matter whether you own a 30GB model or the 80GB model. Now I know what you are going to say: "The 80GB Zune uses the same screen as the iPod touch" as you have said that in the past. No, that is not right. The 80GB Zune still uses a screen resolution of 320X240 (it is actually 240X320 but everyone turns their Zunes to the side to watch video). The iPod touch's screen uses a resolution of 320X480 (or 480X320). That produces a much, much, much clearer picture. The bigger, hard drive based Zunes have blurry screens, period. This has been the main gripe from Zune reviews. The Zune 80 improved the clarity by adding a glass coating but it is still nowhere near the iPod touch.

I know that the software hasn't used WMP code for quite a bit of time but still, at the heart of it, Microsoft just re-branded WMP whether they rewrote new code or not. That is alright as many people like WMP but still, it is nowhere near where iTunes is at. I have updated to the newer software and yes, it still messes with my tags. It still moves the files around. You really want proof? You really want me to record video of the Zune software moving my files? I am not going through all that trouble, sorry.

I can tell the OP about the improvements of the newer Zunes over the older 30GB model but that would be a waste of time seeing as the OP is looking to trade for a 8GB Zune. I am aware that the Zune doesn't require pre-processing for gapless playback but it doesn't playback my AAC files gaplessly anyway. I would rather have iTunes take the 2 seconds to analyze an album than have to listen to it with gaps on the Zune. Oh, my AAC files are in fact gapless as my iPods play them back gaplessly and so does Foobar2000.

Oh, nice name drop by the way but stating that WMP is "way, way, way" better than Media Monkey, iTunes, and J.River just lost what little credibility you have.

I don't mean to get in a ####ing contest here but really (or maybe someone should just go get the tape measures just to be safe), why are you posting here on iLounge when everything that comes out of your mouth praises the Zune? We get it, you like you Zune and its software and its blurry screen, that is fine. We like our iPods, that should be fine with you. We keep posting our opinion (some of it is fact which one keeps failing to realize like the blurry screens, that is a fact!) and yet it gets crapped all over.

I think this is the last time I am going to address the issue. I have a 30GB Zune, I stated my opinions about the software and its updated firmware, so I am done. Either way, a 16GB iPod touch is worth more than a 8GB Zune. It is worth more than a 80GB Zune. If anything, a 16GB iPod touch would be worth trading for a 80GB Zune and a 4GB/8GB Zune.


at least the Zune's screen can reproduce a good solid black and not the crap grey my touch screen shows, the touch's screen absolutely blow for contrast.

[imitchellg5]

Do you have an early touch? That was an issue with them. I ordered mine the day they were announced and it had bad contrast and Apple replaced it. My new one is much better.

[kornchild2002]

at least the Zune's screen can reproduce a good solid black and not the crap grey my touch screen shows, the touch's screen absolutely blow for contrast.

I don't have that issue. Eh, I would still rather watch a higher resolution (ie not blurry) screen with dark grays than watch a blurry screen that can replicate black better.

[Astro_Digital]

The Zune can be better than all Apple products but it does not matter.

http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/want-a-zune-dont-go-to-gamestop/

[Code Monkey]

The Zune can be better than all Apple products but it does not matter.

http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/want-a-zune-dont-go-to-gamestop/Is this non-sequitur day? No where is it even implied that the Zune is better than Apple products, nor is there any implied relationship between the quality or lack thereof of the Zune and Gamestop's decision to not carry a relatively low selling item.

The Zune doesn't sell enough units for Gamestop (small, cramped stores that are already busting at the seams with merchandise) to devote shelf space to it, full stop. Drawing any other conclusion is inane.

[Ricardo Dawkins]

and gamestop is not starting to sell iPod...no loss.
did they sell iPods before ?

[AndyT4097]

Not that I know of.

[kornchild2002]

I agree that GameStop not selling Zunes anymore doesn't give any indication about the Zune's success and I don't think it will hurt anything. It is kind of strange though as back in 2007, GameStop was the only place that you could purchase the Halo 3 Zune. Eh, it shouldn't make any difference what so ever what GameStop does. I remember that GameStop (back when they were purely know as the Electronics Boutique and not EBgames) stopped selling PC graphics cards, PC speakers, and Rio portable mp3 players. They did this whenever Rio was at the top of their game oh so long ago. Did that say anything about the companies? No, it just meant that EB wanted to focus on PC games, console games, and console hardware.

[Stay Alive 305]

iTunes is much easier to use than the Zune software. The Zune software is like checking the box for "Manually manage music and videos." also don't trade a 16GB device for a 8GB device. You will regret the slash in memory.

[Scarpad]

Is this non-sequitur day? No where is it even implied that the Zune is better than Apple products, nor is there any implied relationship between the quality or lack thereof of the Zune and Gamestop's decision to not carry a relatively low selling item.

The Zune doesn't sell enough units for Gamestop (small, cramped stores that are already busting at the seams with merchandise) to devote shelf space to it, full stop. Drawing any other conclusion is inane.


Not sure why a Gamestore would've thought selling an MP3 player/PMP was a good Idea to begin with, maybe MS told them that they would intergrate the zune into the 360 more than they have. But now they drop it before MS implements games on the device, maybe that would've energized sales but I doubt it. Zune sales are flat it's a sad fact, MS has'nt helped that, they basically released the new players then went away for 6 months.

[Music Hunter]

iTunes is much easier to use than the Zune software. The Zune software is like checking the box for "Manually manage music and videos." also don't trade a 16GB device for a 8GB device. You will regret the slash in memory.
+1 on that I had to update someone's zune and it was horrible never had I had to wait for some brick looking device to finish syncing (just my opinion)