I'd like a much more user-friendly iPod

[mergendy]

One where you can delete songs without using a computer for a start...and one that doesn't go wrong very much...

[bobb-mini]

Unfortunately u cannot delete anything wo a computer.

It's disconcerting hearing ppl say the iPod is not user-friendly, 'coz Apple is famous for user-friendliness. But I symphatize.

Part of the unfriendliness has to do with DRM (Digital Right Management). Wo DRM, Apple would not had able to offer u their vast libray of music and videos. It's an necessary evil transition to appease the content distributors.

As far as things gone wrong, I refer to your other post where u have prob hooking up to your stereo. Don't know what to say about that except in my days, kids built radios and are "Hifi experts" b4r they even gone to college.

The working of iTunes gets some used to, strongly recommend going to the top of this forum and click the HELP tag and spend some quality time with iPod 101/201 tutorials.

[Surf Monkey]

It's obvious why they don't allow deletion from the iPod itself. It's a way to make it MORE user friendly. How would you like it if you let your little brother borrow your iPod and he deleted a bunch of songs from it? How is iTunes supposed to resolve conflicts when files are deleted at the computer but not the iPod and vice versa? The idea is that iTunes is the central management tool for the device and the iPod is a remote mirror of the computer's central library.

[bigbabydaddy196]

The working of iTunes gets some used to, strongly recommend going to the top of this forum and click the HELP tag and spend some quality time with iPod 101/201 tutorials.
I second that suggestion. All my previous players were true drag-n-drop, so I never needed/wanted software to manage files. iTunes takes getting used to, but is worth it, I think......

Having said that: I just bought a brand new iRiver H120 (iRiver released a batch of "white box" units that had been held back for warranty replacements and such.)--it absolutely OWNS! every player I've ever owned or toyed with. I'm gonna load Rockbox on it soon, which will give it even more functionality. My Classic is about to get regulated to squad car only duty.......

[bobb-mini]

It's obvious why they don't allow deletion from the iPod itself. It's a way to make it MORE user friendly.
Lets put that more bluntly... to make it idiot-proof.

But I'd wish the sync was 2-ways and go ahead and put in a 2nd-level, change-access with a password. Not a big deal though, so once deleted, what am going to do with the free space... need a computer again.

At the end, one finds out, Apple has probly found the right balance between user-friendiness vs complexity/features.

[Code Monkey]

I'm really not sure what deletion on the iPod accomplishes. As Mr. Mini points out, even while saying he'd like it, you'd need access to a computer to do anything with the space you created.

If you didn't want the song on your iPod, why did you put it there? If you now decided you don't want to hear it again, why can't it wait until you sync with your computer again? Barring waiting, what's stopping you from something as simple as shuffling from a smartlist that blocks 1 star songs and just rating the song 1 star if you don't like it so it won't come up again? Then set up your iPod's smartlists to not load 1 star stuff to begin with and, poof, automatically removed on your next sync.

It seems like the OP has mixed up user friendly with "behaves like stand alone drag and drop DAP with Rockbox".

[ben7337]

Unfortunately u cannot delete anything wo a computer.

It's disconcerting hearing ppl say the iPod is not user-friendly, 'coz Apple is famous for user-friendliness. But I symphatize.

Part of the unfriendliness has to do with DRM (Digital Right Management). Wo DRM, Apple would not had able to offer u their vast libray of music and videos. It's an necessary evil transition to appease the content distributors.

As far as things gone wrong, I refer to your other post where u have prob hooking up to your stereo. Don't know what to say about that except in my days, kids built radios and are "Hifi experts" b4r they even gone to college.

The working of iTunes gets some used to, strongly recommend going to the top of this forum and click the HELP tag and spend some quality time with iPod 101/201 tutorials.

Doesn't Amazon have a good music collection? I mean it might not be quite as big as iTunes but it is still fairly big and considering the amount of time it has had to grow it could probably pass iTunes in the future, and it has no DRM, right? Or am I totally incorrect with this?

[Astro_Digital]

This is the second thread about deletion look about two posts down.

Why would you put it on you iPod in the first place? I have maybe 10 or 15 CDs at time I add to my library. I do not listen to everything I put in.

What I do now is rate my junk songs as one and when I sync with iTunes I check songs rated as one and make a determination if I want to delete the song but being able to delete directly from the iPod would just save time.

The iPod can mark the songs as deleted and when you sync to iTunes, iTunes can say it has detected the following has been deleted, Do you want to remove them from iTunes.

[jhollington]

This is all essentially correct... Since you can't actually do anything with the freed-up space, then what would be the point of deleting it?

Traditional iPods support both ratings and tracking of how many times you've skipped a track and the last time you skipped it. Both of these can be easily leveraged in a smart playlist to omit tracks on your iPod that you really don't want to listen to until you get around to removing them.

The iPod touch and iPhone actually do allow deletion of certain types of media such as videos. In this case, however, there is a specific utility for this, as both of these devices can use that space for other information while on-the-go, such as newly-purchased tracks from the iTunes Store, downloaded e-mail, and even photos in the case of the iPhone.

[bigbabydaddy196]

This is all essentially correct... Since you can't actually do anything with the freed-up space, then what would be the point of deleting it?
OTF delete is very convenient, especially the larger the collection being managed. When I hear a song I don't like, I'm usually not at a computer, nor in a good spot to rate it so I can remember to remove it later. OTF delete is a simple function, apparently, since my 3 year-old Cowon U3 can do it. Yet Apple can't seem to manage...

[PG4G]

That is a very cynical view.

Apple has good reasons for doing what they did, including the kid scenario deleting stuff against your wishes. Delete was allowed for Movies because they take up space that could be used to purchase more music, but the amount of space taken by music is much smaller.

Stop focusing on the fact that Apple didn't add in a feature that you like, and start focusing on the fact that they provided you a brilliant media player with a very complex and enjoyable interface.

Apple don't owe you anything. You bought it either knowing, or in ignorance.

[Astro_Digital]

For your protection is a silly reason.

You go crazy and delete everything, so big deal instead of confirming with iTunes you want the tunes deleted next time you sync.

You restore them.

[bobb-mini]

Doesn't Amazon have a good music collection? I mean it might not be quite as big as iTunes but it is still fairly big and considering the amount of time it has had to grow it could probably pass iTunes in the future, and it has no DRM, right? Or am I totally incorrect with this?
Amazon surpass iTunes??? <gasp> That's like speculating whether anybody will dethrone Windows. Not before Crazy Steve Ballmer pounds u to pieces! :)

DRM-less is slowly coming online but DRM will probly not totally go away for some time.

Plus iTunes works seamlessly with the iTunes Store. U wanna place a wager whether iTunes will EVER directly support Amazon?

[bobb-mini]

For your protection is a silly reason.

You go crazy and delete everything, so big deal instead of confirming with iTunes you want the tunes deleted next time you sync.

You restore them.
I don't believe anybody said "protection." How about Engineering Design 101... Keep It Simple and Stupid.

All in all, would be nice, but no big deal.

[Code Monkey]

When I hear a song I don't like, I'm usually not at a computer, nor in a good spot to rate it so I can remember to remove it later. OTF delete is a simple function...Are you seriously expecting us to believe that you can't rate a song because it's too difficult (three clicks and a slight twist of the thumb), but you could delete it in the exact same scenario? I call BS on this one.

[Surf Monkey]

For your protection is a silly reason.

You go crazy and delete everything, so big deal instead of confirming with iTunes you want the tunes deleted next time you sync.

You restore them.


You're missing a key element. Suppose you're on vacation, far from your home library, when your little brother deletes everything from your iPod. Now what do you do?

Use a little imagination. It's not hard to see why Apple doesn't offer a delete option on the iPod itself.

[bigbabydaddy196]

They could easily get around that by offering the usual warnings, like "You are about to delete "X" Are you sure?"

I've had my U3 for years and never accidentally deleted anything, but sure have used the OTF delete every so often. I'm not saying it's a critical function or a deal breaker, but it ain't rocket science either. ;)

[jasoncordelle]

They could easily get around that by offering the usual warnings, like "You are about to delete "X" Are you sure?"

I've had my U3 for years and never accidentally deleted anything, but sure have used the OTF delete every so often. I'm not saying it's a critical function or a deal breaker, but it ain't rocket science either. ;)


I'm with you - all drag and drop units offer delete on the unit functionality, with the usual, "are you absolutely sure you want to do that, you dufus?" warnings.

[jhollington]

I think we can run around in circles trying to discern Apple's supposed logic for omitting this option, but the reality is that Apple does things their own way, and they've obviously decided that this isn't an important feature, particularly with the iTunes-centric design of the iPod.

The point is that the iPod doesn't support drag-and-drop from anywhere -- you need iPod-compatible software. While some of these applications designed for the iPod emulate drag-and-drop functionality, the reality is that these are not officially recognized by Apple, nor are they going to base their iPod design on anything but iTunes. Since as far as Apple is concerned, you manage the iPod through iTunes, there's no need for any ability to delete a track from the player.

[BratPAQ]

creative have delete functions, why not get a creative player if you really want a delete function?

[emjoi]

I'm surprised how strongly ANTI delete some of you people seem to be.
You're right, it's not an important feature, but if that's how some people's workflow works... if they want it and would use it... then why not? People realize that some dumb song has been accidentally placed in their playlist and then and there want it removed. Makes sense to me.

And yes, it would be easy to make it work with the all powerful, all controlling, iTunes.
Remove a song from your pods playlist, and it disappears from the iTunes playlist next time you Sync. Easy.

[Code Monkey]

I'm surprised how strongly ANTI delete some of you people seem to be.I'm surprised you haven't realised that you're talking about a completely different issue ;)


People realize that some dumb song has been accidentally placed in their playlist and then and there want it removed. Makes sense to me.

And yes, it would be easy to make it work with the all powerful, all controlling, iTunes.
Remove a song from your pods playlist, and it disappears from the iTunes playlist next time you Sync. Easy.I doubt that anyone would be against better on the go playlist editing, that's an entirely different thing than on the go file deletion, which is the subject you're so confused by.