View Full Version : Whats going to be announced in September/October?
With the release of the iPod/iPhone upgrades, it makes you think, what will actually be announced in September/October? Could this be the first year without a major redisign or new iPod? Or maybe nothing will be announced.
interlude
02-05-2008, 08:44 PM
I think they'll update the nano line.
Surf Monkey
02-06-2008, 05:23 AM
Shuffle is due. Nano is probably only going to get new colors and more storage space. If Apple transitions to the new 1.3 inch HDDs, Classic will probably get some kind of update, probably to a smaller size.
But I think the big ticket item we might see is a new iPhone (something very different from what we have right now, not just the addition of 3G and more memory) and an Apple tablet device that sits between iPhone and MacBook Air. Apple is going to expand the Apple Touch line. It's only a matter of time. A diversified iPhone lineup and a new tablet-like Touch device seem like logical next steps.
Touchingisgood
02-06-2008, 05:08 PM
iPod Touch 1.5 gen
Longer Battery Life
Minor tweaks
16gb for $299
32gb for $399
8gb phased out
tonyshucraft
02-06-2008, 09:11 PM
iPod Touch 1.5 gen
Longer Battery Life
Minor tweaks
16gb for $299
32gb for $399
8gb phased out
My only question is why do they HAVE to phase out the 8 gig. If they drop it by $100 that may be incentive to the casual user.(which I am not but come on if they can still make money with it, then they should do it)
hyroboarder
02-07-2008, 03:59 PM
I think (or hope at least) price changes will happen during the summer, then in september/october add a 64 gb touch for 499$
As for 1.3" hdd's surf monkey, I think by the time september comes along an 80 gb will be released and apple will scoop them up like they usually do and throw them in the classic. That would be awesome, a thin classic.
Smaller Classics with bigger screens?
bobbit
02-08-2008, 05:11 PM
No more classics ;)
Re-designed Nano, more capacity (8, 16gb only.)
Agree with a more advanced, full featured and up-to-21stcentry-standards iPhone.
soulja boy
02-08-2008, 08:33 PM
random idea
possibly a touch with a HDD to replace the classsic
drewhiggins
02-09-2008, 03:20 AM
Better quality control.
paranoidxe
02-09-2008, 04:05 AM
Better quality control.
LOL I'm with you on this, the latest generation iPods are lousy compared to previous generations in terms of bugs and problems.
Anyway, iPod Touch with forward/back buttons maybe a volume control and by then I bet we'd see a 64GB model at $500, the 32GB would be dropped to $400 and the 16GB to $300.
(...can't understand why there has yet to be a search feature implemented)
iPod Nano needs a 16GB model and colors that actually appeal to people. (cept for black, red)
iPod Shuffle needs new colors (cept for red) and a 2GB model.
Thats all I really care about...I can't really think of any feature I'd really want this year that my current iPods lack..I just want the usual capacity/battery life improvements.
Derek McNelly
02-09-2008, 04:59 AM
iPod Shuffle needs new colors (cept for red) and a 2GB model.
They should really keep the purple. If you haven't had the chance to see it up close, it's beautiful.
Hopefully this picture will do the color some justice.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7149/dscn7903kk1.jpg
hyroboarder
02-09-2008, 10:51 AM
I agree, the purple shuffle is the balls.
However, I think in terms of shuffle upgrades they will add a 2gb or just 2gb only, and staying the same price. I mean come on, 80$ for 1 gb? The zen stone is way less than that.
Briar
02-10-2008, 07:07 AM
I would love a purple nano, but then I'd be rather annoyed as I just got the silver one for christmas!
I hope the stop using the metal back because it gets scratched so easily.
paranoidxe
02-10-2008, 03:05 PM
Well as far as the shuffles go I myself would like either a bright white one or a black one.
Bernardo Gaetani
02-10-2008, 03:48 PM
I belive in September we will hav...
iPod Shuffle: With 2GB or with a lower price
iPod Nano: A new design and models 8 and 16gb.
iPod Classic: HD Upgrade 100 and 200gb.
iPod Touch: 16, 32 and 64gb models.
iPhone: 32gb with 3G network.
bobbit
02-10-2008, 03:58 PM
I belive in September we will hav...
iPod Shuffle: With 2GB or with a lower price
iPod Nano: A new design and models 8 and 16gb.
iPod Classic: HD Upgrade 100 and 200gb.
iPod Touch: 16, 32 and 64gb models.
iPhone: 32gb with 3G network.
Except for the iPod Touch having 64gb capacity, that list is a pretty good summary and quite safe to agree with. Although I'd have to say that the Shuffle should have 2gb AND a lower price.
For the sake of argument, Apple may decide to drop the smaller iPod Classic and replace it with a 64gb iPod Touch and just have a ~200 iPod Classic for the storage fanatics. However I can't quite bring myself to see an affordable 64gb Touch, but I don't know what kind of deals Apple will be getting with Toshiba/Samsung over the coming months.
One more thing: If they do re-design the Nano and keep the Classic, I think we'll see a re-design of the Classic, too.
Bernardo Gaetani
02-10-2008, 05:31 PM
Except for the iPod Touch having 64gb capacity, that list is a pretty good summary and quite safe to agree with. Although I'd have to say that the Shuffle should have 2gb AND a lower price.
For the sake of argument, Apple may decide to drop the smaller iPod Classic and replace it with a 64gb iPod Touch and just have a ~200 iPod Classic for the storage fanatics. However I can't quite bring myself to see an affordable 64gb Touch, but I don't know what kind of deals Apple will be getting with Toshiba/Samsung over the coming months.
One more thing: If they do re-design the Nano and keep the Classic, I think we'll see a re-design of the Classic, too.
Boobit, itīs true an iPod Touch 64GB itīs not a safe idea. But now with the model of USD499, itīs possible Apple replace 32GB model w/ a better ipod 48gb or 64gb maybe...
iPod Shuffle with more memory and less price togheter, will be fantastic.
bobbit
02-10-2008, 05:38 PM
itīs possible Apple replace 32GB model w/ a better ipod 48gb or 64gb maybe...
Whilst 48gb would be possible, SSD tends only to go up in doubles so from 32GB it would typically go straight to 64GB which is still extremely expensive from what I can see. We're looking at least $699+ at present time for a 64GB.
Aren't Toshiba producing 128GB SSD this summer? I think that a 64GB is possible this year
bobbit
02-10-2008, 07:05 PM
They can produce whatever they damn well like, but it's the price that's the problem.
64GB SSD in the MacBook Air adds nearly $1,000 to the price. Come on.
LatinaC09
02-10-2008, 08:02 PM
how any ppl are seriously gonna pay $699 for a 64gb iPod touch?? you can buy a 200gb laptop computer for less than that. i know ppl like their thrills with ipods but damn thats alot of money.
bobbit
02-10-2008, 08:24 PM
That's the point - they won't. Hence why until the prices drop significantly we won't be seeing anything more for quite some time.
ben7337
02-10-2008, 09:01 PM
32 GB of Flash memory only costs about $150 or so retail though. Currently 32 GB would be $300 but the cost to apple would probably be more like $100 for 64 GB. However that is at the CF card compression which would keep apple from having the small form factor.
Currently there are not 32 Gb SD cards to estimate a value, though SSD clearly won't be in portable items aside form laptops any time too soon.
jorgeo7
02-15-2008, 12:11 AM
:shake: well it doesn't matter anymore... I don't even want think about it... it is always something and then nothing... hurry up and wait, donde va, I know you alll try but there is always a but and if that is not enough... how will we knowhow, it is really the order... the river doesn't has an end... what!
kylo4
02-15-2008, 04:01 AM
My only question is why do they HAVE to phase out the 8 gig. If they drop it by $100 that may be incentive to the casual user.(which I am not but come on if they can still make money with it, then they should do it)
iPod touch wasn't made for the casual user. It was made for the gadget people who have the money to back it, just like the Macbook Air. To Apple, this is their "expensive top of the line" iPod, which is why its ranked highest on their line and costs $519. They want it to be expensive because I guarantee you it takes $250 at most to make that 32GB touch. A price reduction was expected to come in the next few months or possibly Feb. 26'th, with the axing of the 8GB.
I think they'll put out a 2GB shuffle, since Creative is already charging $45 for their 1GB Zen Stone. The Nano will go to 8 and 16GB, and the Classic might go to 320GB or bigger.
I just read on Gizmodo today that Flash is really dropping in price and they expect 128GB flash by the end of the year, so that gives good prospects price wise for 2009.
anypats
02-15-2008, 11:00 AM
Although I doubt it will happen I just think they need to update most of their color line with both the Shuffle and the nano. The black is okay but I would like to see more like a navy, charcoal, more of a deep green rather than lime green, and maybe darker purple. I have no idea what is up with the Easter/pastels they have gone with. I hear the brown is a big seller with the Zune, maybe they could go with that.[/sarcasm]
tom22n
02-15-2008, 04:05 PM
A white ipod hopefully.
Speer320
02-16-2008, 04:45 PM
There will be no update to the Iphone for 3g people. It has been less then a year and people have 2 year contracts. Its not smart on there part. I would say july of next year if anything
Reubania
02-16-2008, 05:51 PM
That's a valid point about the 3G iPhone.
I don't think there will much refreshing of the model line....perhaps a small price drop...which they will do a few months before their release the larger capacity iPods...definitely no change in nano design - they just changed it! Not sure if they ever get back to the glossy designs in monochromatic colours anymore. Which is a shame, I've been a fan, despite the fingerprints...lol
I also don't think another larger capacity touch....just not economically viable at this time. Perhaps next year, but not after the larger release just recently.
5billion
02-17-2008, 12:32 AM
Geeze.
3G iPhone my a$$.
The United States has the worst cellphone technology in the world,
nonetheless no 3G networks (not that I know of).
No cellphone retailer sells 3G phones in the US unless they're imported on request.
I don't think there'll be a 3G iPhone anytime soon.
bobbit
02-17-2008, 01:16 AM
The amount of work Apple got AT&T to do to get the iPhone working... I don't think 3g will be a problem.
Surf Monkey
02-17-2008, 09:46 PM
Geeze.
3G iPhone my a$$.
What bobbit said, plus the fact that, if you read any tech news, you know that ATT has been spending millions on expanding their 3G network in recent months.
5billion
02-17-2008, 11:54 PM
Well no one's seem to been using it, as far as I'm concerned.
3G technology has been around since late 2003/2004.
Vodafone NZ has definately taken advantage of it.
There are still Americans who think video calling is a joke.
Surf Monkey
02-18-2008, 12:09 AM
Well no one's seem to been using it, as far as I'm concerned.
Meaningless statement. Search the Web for 3G and American usage. It's always better to know the facts than to opine without any basis other than your feeling.
i'm hoping for a 16 gb or more iPod Nano as i now find my 30 gb Classic a bit bulky for traveling.
Surf Monkey
02-18-2008, 01:40 AM
i'm hoping for a 16 gb or more iPod Nano as i now find my 30 gb Classic a bit bulky for traveling.
I think it's very likely that your wish will come true. The Nano is badly over due for a capacity bump.
5billion
02-18-2008, 01:52 AM
Not using 3G networks as in not using it to its full potential.
The United States is like.. seriously falling behind with cellphone technology.
I mean, look at it.
The US still doesn't have video calling capable phones.
Only GSM networks can have that capability, though.
But still, I'm very surprised why video calling capable phones haven't come out in the US.
Motorola makes millions of them.
elosirch
03-05-2008, 11:31 PM
A white ipod classic. I dont like the silver ones at all
bobbit
03-05-2008, 11:56 PM
elo: Won't happen.
1) Jobs is over the white now.
2) Aluminum and white don't mix.
3) White isn't modern.
5billion
03-05-2008, 11:56 PM
True dat.
The silver looks weird but I think it's only because the aluminium can't be done in white, possibly?
But I'm sure they can.
5billion
03-05-2008, 11:57 PM
elo: Won't happen.
1) Jobs is over the white now.
2) Aluminum and white don't mix.
3) White isn't modern.
And what he said :)
paranoidxe
03-06-2008, 02:53 AM
elo: Won't happen.
1) Jobs is over the white now.
2) Aluminum and white don't mix.
3) White isn't modern.
Non-sense Aluminum can be done in white. #3 would be a reason why the classic should be done in white because it isn't "modern" as you say.
Funny you should say modern because the colors apple is whippin out now are pretty 70s/80s.
They should bump the screen up by a half a inch (3" instead of 2.5"), increase the capacity and thin it out even more. The classic isn't going anywhere until something else APPROACHES its capacity...the 32GB iPod Touch isn't close enough.
The iPod Nano is rather dissappointing now that it runs lines with the classic, its too small for video/games both in physical size and capacity. Wish they would have stuck to the audio only functionality of the nano and got it even smaller.
bobbit
03-06-2008, 03:34 AM
Non-sense Aluminum can be done in white. #3 would be a reason why the classic should be done in white because it isn't "modern" as you say.
Funny you should say modern because the colors apple is whippin out now are pretty 70s/80s.
It can be done in white. I never said it doesn't. I said they don't mix - As in the look stupid.
White hasn't been modern in any device for years and it surprises me that the MacBook was left to be white and plastic this year. I don't own a single device that's white and you don't often run into them in shops. White has not been 'modern' for years.
The 70/80s colours you mention - Well. Yeah, I suppose the shade, by itself, would be from around that era. But mix that with the metallic finish and aluminium and it really doesn't come close - Only in the photoshopped pictures on Apple's website.
Astro_Digital
03-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Video calling is a joke, it has been out in Canada for over a year and I see nobody using it and I can not think I any reason I want it myself.
I think for the long term the iPhone will die. Cell phones are not like any other consumer device. I own a cell phone for 6 months I get tired of looking at it and buy something new. I am really surprised more people are not tiring of the iPhone.
I think though this year there will be capacity increases for the touch, iPhone and Classic for sure.
bobbit
03-06-2008, 08:18 AM
I agree with you about every point there, Astro. I've only ever used video calling to show a friend a building being demolished - of which she could barely see.
Even though Apple will update the design of the iPhone once in a while, you're right... it just gets boring after a while and whilst it is quite aesthetic, it's not something I could personally stare at day in and day out without wanting a new one in about four months.
Surf Monkey
03-06-2008, 12:18 PM
I think for the long term the iPhone will die. Cell phones are not like any other consumer device. I own a cell phone for 6 months I get tired of looking at it and buy something new. I am really surprised more people are not tiring of the iPhone.
There's a lot of incentive not to get tired of looking at something you spent $600 on.
But yeah, your point is well taken. The cell phone industry is all about quick turnover. iPhone isn't exactly positioned for that sort of thing. But I think what Apple wants to do here is make major updates to the unit once every 12 - 18 months so that practically everyone will be likely to upgrade. Where I disagree with you is the statement that "iPhone will die". I seriously doubt that. The way people are buying and using iPhone reminds me very much of the first few years of iPod. The iPhone has a loyal following that will continue to grow. It won't "die", it'll evolve. I'd be willing to bet everything I own that iPhone will still be around and going strong five years from now.
Yeah, i agree.
I simply think that the iPhone won't just be the only point of evolution. i believe with it that all touch devices will evolve along a similar line.
Apple just hasn't found its balance between what the iPod and the iPhone actually are and where they dirffer, quite yet.
Surf Monkey
03-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Yeah, i agree.
I simply think that the iPhone won't just be the only point of evolution. i believe with it that all touch devices will evolve along a similar line.
Apple just hasn't found its balance between what the iPod and the iPhone actually are and where they dirffer, quite yet.
Agreed. If past Apple behavior is any guide, we're likely to see three main product lines under the Touch name. iPod Touch, iPhone and some as yet unreleased Internet focused Touch device that's larger and more powerful than either of the existing products. Then, within those three main lines, there's likely to be some diversification. I wouldn't be surprised to see an "iPhone Lite" as well as an "iPhone Pro" added. There could also be one or two other configurations of iPod Touch.
Something that struck me: read the transcript and the iPhone is described as more important than the desktop computer as far as platforms are concerned. That speech obviously went thorugh Jobs' fine Keynote comb... so... what do you think about this seemingly Apple-approved view that the iPhone is really more significant developing wise than a desktop?
Surf Monkey
03-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Something that struck me: read the transcript and the iPhone is described as more important than the desktop computer as far as platforms are concerned. That speech obviously went thorugh Jobs' fine Keynote comb... so... what do you think about this seemingly Apple-approved view that the iPhone is really more significant developing wise than a desktop?
Not much. It was an iPhone event, so it's not surprising that they hyped up the Touch OS as much as they could. Mac desktops and laptops are huge business for Apple. They're always going to be the primary focus. But the MacOS is mature. The hardware is mature too. It isn't as if we're going to see some huge advances in either any time soon. The Touch platform on the other hand is nascent. It has a ton of unrealized potential. It makes sense that it would be the primary focus as Apple ramps it up.
I have a dream.
One that's unlikely to come true, but i'll share it anyway:
iTouch Nano...
And also iPhone Nano...
The same size as the Nano 3G, but with the touch screen and calling.
None of the fancy programs.
Just a Nano that can also make phone calls...
It'll NEVER happen.
But it's a cool idea.
And as for stuff that CAN happen, i'd like a 16GB Nano.
And a 160GB iTouch Classic.
;)
Germansuplex
03-23-2008, 02:21 AM
In response to Astro_Digital, I have been that way with all of my phones in the past (tiring of them after 3-6 months). However, the iPhone is very unique in being tied in with iTunes. I say this about many Apple products, but it's why I enjoy the iPod, iPhone, etc. so much... the base software tying them to your media is so superb. The updates are great too. Very few mobile phones have the type of average-joe updates and support. I'm not familiar with palms and blackberries because I'm not a business pro. I just like to do "cool stuff" on my phone, and the iPhone really fits that bill to perfection.
css1323
04-14-2008, 11:40 PM
elo: Won't happen.
1) Jobs is over the white now.
2) Aluminum and white don't mix.
3) White isn't modern.
The white plastic look will always identify with the iPod now. I'd say it even affected the industry as many products out there try to go with the same white, simplistic look so customers will easily spot them. The Wii for example or polar white Nintendo DS has that same look to it.
css1323
04-14-2008, 11:44 PM
Back on topic:
The iPod Touch/iPhone will definitely see an increase in screen size. Have you ever looked at the screen itself? Notice how there are two empty areas on the top and bottom (left to right, depending on how it's held). Sooner or later, you're gonna be holding a true widescreen iPod. it's simply madness to think otherwise.
People are going to laugh at you one day when they see you with an iPod Touch and wonder why the screen doesn't reach all the way to corners!
Surf Monkey
04-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Back on topic:
The iPod Touch/iPhone will definitely see an increase in screen size. Have you ever looked at the screen itself? Notice how there are two empty areas on the top and bottom (left to right, depending on how it's held). Sooner or later, you're gonna be holding a true widescreen iPod. it's simply madness to think otherwise.
People are going to laugh at you one day when they see you with an iPod Touch and wonder why the screen doesn't reach all the way to corners!
It doesn't go all the way to the edges because the space is needed for components. If it went across the whole face, the device would have to be thicker. There's no way Apple is going to make it thicker. Also, on the iPhone (which is all iPod Touch is, really, just minus the phone part) the top space is necessary for the speaker.
So, yeah. Don't hold your breath for a wider screen. The chances of it happening any time soon are practically nil.
hyroboarder
04-15-2008, 06:36 PM
Plus the ergonomics would be compromised when viewing movies/games/websites in landscape.
hyroboarder
04-15-2008, 06:42 PM
It doesn't go all the way to the edges because the space is needed for components. If it went across the whole face, the device would have to be thicker.
As technology evolves, components will be able to fit in a smaller space. Obviously they couldn't do it now, but maybe the next form factor of the ipod touch or iphone will be fullscreen (or smaller top and bottom bars)
hyroboarder
04-15-2008, 06:45 PM
elo: 2) Aluminum and white don't mix.
what about the new apple keyboard? Aluminum frame with white plastic keys. And it looks good.
Surf Monkey
04-15-2008, 09:09 PM
As technology evolves, components will be able to fit in a smaller space. Obviously they couldn't do it now, but maybe the next form factor of the ipod touch or iphone will be fullscreen (or smaller top and bottom bars)
Smaller, maybe. Full screen? Highly unlikely.
We will probably see a larger screen on the iPod Classic. Bluetooth on the iPods could be a possiblity.
Surf Monkey
04-18-2008, 09:07 PM
We will probably see a larger screen on the iPod Classic. Bluetooth on the iPods could be a possiblity.
A larger screen would be nice, but what makes you think Apple is going to add one? Same for bluetooth. I think it's more likely that they'd add Wi-Fi than bluetooth.
Astro_Digital
04-20-2008, 10:43 AM
WiFi on the Classic, well maybe but I can see maybe only limited internet access.
Maybe Apple will develop a way that people can buy tunes from Starbucks like you can with the Touch now.
Why not expand that market? But with only a click wheel and a limited micro processor there will likely not be a full browser.
Surf Monkey
04-20-2008, 01:20 PM
WiFi on the Classic, well maybe but I can see maybe only limited internet access.
Whenever some people see the word "Wi-Fi" they immediately think "Internet". That's a faulty assumption. The Classic could have Wi-Fi and not have Safari. There are many things that can be done with Wi-Fi that don't involve browsing Web pages.
How about being able to use wifi to broadcast/recieve music?
Like if you have four speaker docks in your house, and four iPods, they could all recieve from one...(As long as they have been "paired").
Who knows...
Bar.
A larger screen would be nice, but what makes you think Apple is going to add one? Same for bluetooth. I think it's more likely that they'd add Wi-Fi than bluetooth.
Well they have a (small) bit of competition from the Zune which has a large screen. Also with movie rentals and downloads out Apple may spoil us by giving us a nice big screen. A time will come where some cosmetic changes come to the iPod Classic. WiFi would be nice on the iPod (especially wireless sync) but I don't think it will come. I think they would want to keep the Classic as a movie/music player more than a multimedia type device.
Surf Monkey
04-21-2008, 06:56 PM
Classic is still mainly a music player. I doubt Apple will add a bigger screen. Zune doesn't even enter into the equation.
hyroboarder
04-21-2008, 07:49 PM
Remember though, ipods took time to gain market share when they first entered the hd mp3 scene. The ipod isn't completely invincible, and if they don't start innovating/taking time to fix bugs before a release, someone like the zune could potentially overthrow the ipod.
I'm not saying the zune has any competition right now, but it could in the future.
Surf Monkey
04-22-2008, 02:20 PM
Remember though, ipods took time to gain market share when they first entered the hd mp3 scene.
That's completely irrelevant. iPod took some time to gain market when it was released because there wasn't really a vast PMP market like there is now. Apple essentially created that market. It took time to ramp up not just iPod but demand for MP3 in general. It also took time to get public awareness of iPod up to a reasonable level. It was a brand new product. It wasn't going to conquer the world over night no matter what.
hyroboarder
04-23-2008, 06:09 PM
That still doesn't mean it's invincible. In a few years zune might be the new popular mp3 player.
With Amazon selling DRM free music, it is one more reason not to buy an iPod and one more reason to buy a cheaper, just as good MP3 player. I still believe though that eventually the iPod will get a bigger screen. It is one of the biggest annoyance people have with the iPod. It will probably still stay near the same size of the current iPod Classic but maybe with a smaller clickwheel.
Code Monkey
04-23-2008, 06:42 PM
That still doesn't mean it's invincible. In a few years zune might be the new popular mp3 player.I doubt the iPod is invincible, but I'd eat a shiny new $10 bill if any player ever achieves true market dominance again. The iPod might slip into a many way tie if interfaces and software support ever become standardised, but you're not going to see one brand achieve the sort of stranglehold on the market Apple has even if Apple loses it (particularly the Zune without a major rethink on software from MS).
hyroboarder
04-23-2008, 06:47 PM
If apple were to switch everything to touch screens on their mp3 players imo it would re-ignite their stronghold on the market. They need another revolution, an overhaul. The ipods nowadays don't get the updates like they used to. Nobody cares that you have an ipod anymore, because everyone does. If you have a TOUCH ipod on the other hand, that's a bigger deal. For the amount of people that won't buy touchscreen ipods because of the lack of tactile feedback, I don't think apple will take that bad of a hit.
Surf Monkey
04-23-2008, 09:34 PM
Classic is practically an ideal product, though. Simply updating it for the sake of updating it makes no sense.
One of the hardest things for any company to do is build on past successes. There's always the danger that they'll just repeat what they've already done over and over with dwindling returns. Apple re-invented itself with the iPod. Now they're trying to do the same thing with iPhone. That's where their focus is. Chances are, the iPod line will stay very much the same as you see it now for the foreseeable future with only minor tweaks and upgrades. iPhone and Touch on the other hand will evolve more radically, and it's likely that Apple will add one or two more Touch based devices to the lineup. But expecting Touch platform and iPod platform devices to converge just doesn't make that much sense to me. They're distinct lines, one completely mature, one barely nascent.
hyroboarder
04-23-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't really mean a convergence with the lower-end ipods, I mean something like an iphone-OS "lite" for the nano, and the shuffle would get that album art only touchscreen discussed in an older thread. The Classic couldn't change because if it went touch it would just replace the ipod touch which won't happen. Or, how about some new sort of control that outdid the clickwheel in terms of practicality without going touch, leaving more real estate on the front for more screen. A bezel click "rectangle" would be nice. Think of a 5g minus the bottom half where the click wheel is to make the 4g nano.
I doubt that the nano could handle the iPhone OS.
But I believe that the iPod lines need that update, and the touch is the future of it. Unfortunately, people don't like buying the touch because it is a high end-iPod with a low end storage capacity.
guy0307
04-24-2008, 05:13 AM
3G Shuffle
Major updates for ALL other iPods/iPhone, maybe even a new generation for one (or more) of them.
ThisisCraigP
04-24-2008, 07:15 AM
That still doesn't mean it's invincible. In a few years zune might be the new popular mp3 player.
That is possible. A lot of kids in my school have Zunes. They also have iPods (apprently there rich)
Anyway I dont think that Apple will introduce a larger screened Classic. If you want a bigger screen then go with the Touch- I bet thats what Apples thinking.
Code Monkey
04-24-2008, 08:42 AM
That is possible. A lot of kids in my school have Zunes.Hate to break this to you, teenagers do not have much, if anything, to do with the longterm success of, well, much of anything. If I'm going to have my product popular with any segment, teenagers are pretty much dead last on my list - adults stay with products for years, and you can keep re-selling the same thing to new waves of young children who lack a persistent cultural memory, but teens are one-offs. If the product doesn't get a larger foothold outside of the teen market, you can pretty much mark its demise off on your calendar.
Anyway I dont think that Apple will introduce a larger screened Classic. If you want a bigger screen then go with the Touch- I bet thats what Apples thinking.A much better observation ;)
Surf Monkey
04-24-2008, 12:50 PM
Hate to break this to you, teenagers do not have much, if anything, to do with the longterm success of, well, much of anything. If I'm going to have my product popular with any segment, teenagers are pretty much dead last on my list - adults stay with products for years, and you can keep re-selling the same thing to new waves of young children who lack a persistent cultural memory, but teens are one-offs. If the product doesn't get a larger foothold outside of the teen market, you can pretty much mark its demise off on your calendar.
And, in the majority of cases, the parents are putting up the money and making the decision about the purchases, not the teens themselves.
hyroboarder
04-24-2008, 06:24 PM
And, in the majority of cases, the parents are putting up the money and making the decision about the purchases, not the teens themselves.
Its still the same money in Jobs' eyes ;)
guy0307
04-24-2008, 10:03 PM
Hate to break this to you, teenagers do not have much, if anything, to do with the longterm success of, well, much of anything.
Sorry to tell you, but you're totally wrong.. Teens DO decide what to buy. It doesn't matter in what way their money is obtained. At least where I live (Australia) teens are responsible for a HUGE amount of iPod sales.
Code Monkey
04-24-2008, 11:08 PM
Sorry to tell you, but you're totally wrong.. Teens DO decide what to buy. It doesn't matter in what way their money is obtained. At least where I live (Australia) teens are responsible for a HUGE amount of iPod sales.Learn To Read.
I didn't say teens don't buy things, I said teens do not make anything a success for more than a few years.
Something gets huge with teens, sales spike, executives buy themselves new car, that set of teens grows up, moves on, new wave of teens wants nothing to do with that old hat crap and product (be it a band, a clothing line, whatever) sinks into obscurity to, if its lucky, get some sort of nostalgia revival a decade or two into the future.
If I have a product, I want it to be popular with the pre-teens (with pre-school to early grade school ideal) or adults, because in either of those cases, if it's good enough, I can keep sales up indefinitely. If it's a teen focused phenom I know with a high degree of certainty I've got, if I'm lucky, four or five years before I'd better have a new line of income.
Even if Zunes (not iPods, again, LTR) are wildly popular with the teen segment, if it doesn't spill over to other demographics, it's a dead end.
EDIT: For examples, see Swatches, New Kids On The Block, Debbie Gibson, Joey Lawrence, Levis 501s, etc. etc. - the youth market burns hot and bright, but it's not sustainable in the vast majority of cases.
blanco
04-26-2008, 01:30 AM
Teens might have an advantage of the purchasing power of a certain item.
The longevity is not for them to hold but for their older brods as they have a consistent cash flow (21-45 demographic).
It's good to market merchandise to teens but it's even better to sell your item to a more stable group.
joker0153
04-26-2008, 09:29 AM
Back to topic, I think Apple will go away with the iPod's Click Wheel, Imagine our iPod nano today with a full screen just like a small square iPod touch with Music, Videos, and Podcast. It may or may not come with wifi but what the heck, I can Imagine one right now. The Classic may get a full body touchscreen too! with hard drives as their storage capacity. I doubt Apple cannot pull this off because iPhone is as thin as the 30GB iPod 5th gen and also the 80GB 6th gen Classic, so I think they can fit a HD in a touch too! just sacrificing 5-6mm won't hurt and best of all, It will be just as fat as an iPhone with no phone capabilities.
Back to topic, I think Apple will go away with the iPod's Click Wheel, Imagine our iPod nano today with a full screen just like a small square iPod touch with Music, Videos, and Podcast. It may or may not come with wifi but what the heck, I can Imagine one right now. The Classic may get a full body touchscreen too! with hard drives as their storage capacity. I doubt Apple cannot pull this off because iPhone is as thin as the 30GB iPod 5th gen and also the 80GB 6th gen Classic, so I think they can fit a HD in a touch too! just sacrificing 5-6mm won't hurt and best of all, It will be just as fat as an iPhone with no phone capabilities.
There is a reason the clickwheel is a triumph of modern design:
It works in a number of different scenarios...
The touch interface doesn't...
I am not hammering the Touch. I have one. It's great.
But i cannot reach into a pocket, locate my Touch and be able to change tracks quickly...
I have to pull it out, press the menu button, wait for the screen to come on, and firmly tap the part of the screen neccesary for track changing.
With my clickwheel-enabled nano, i can do it with feel alone.
For that reason, the Nano and Classic are unlikely to have their clickwheels removed any time soon...
Add to the fact that a touchscreen would bump up the price...
I think the Nano and Classic will stay very similar for the time being...
Bar.
jhollington
04-26-2008, 10:45 AM
The touch, in my opinion, did a number of things very wrong for a music listener's experience. Hell, they didn't even include volume buttons, despite the fact that the iPhone does (and it is basically the same class of device from a UI and design perspective).
There are many ways that a touchscreen iPod could easily have been made into a far more usable device, despite the lack of a clickwheel. The comparisons to the existing iPod touch are completely fair, but let's not assume that merely because this device falls far short of what it could have been that it's a reflection on the suitability of a touchscreen device versus the clickwheel.
It's always hard to say where Apple is going, but from my own observations as somebody who pays pretty close attention to this industry, the iPod classic really came across last fall as almost an afterthought.... They didn't want to put a hard drive into the iPod touch, yet they recognized that there needed to be a high-capacity player. They decided too late that they wanted to go there, and then released the device far earlier than they should have in order to make a release date.
In many ways it looks like they took the new iPod nano design and slapped it into a larger model with a hard drive just to ensure that they could offer something updated in that niche. Keep in mind that most of the problems that have plagued the 2007 traditional iPod models have been confined to the iPod classic and not the iPod nano, despite the fact that they use virtually identical firmware.
I think Apple would like nothing better than to finally move away from that traditional hard-drive based iPods. Their aggressive capacity increases of the iPod touch would seem to indicate they're pushing that design concept as the future flagship iPod, but the current demand for high-capacity iPods is not letting them rule out the iPod classic until flash prices and capacities hit a more reasonable level.
(Don't get me wrong - I personally hope that the iPod classic design stays with us for a long time. Recent events and trends, however, make me very skeptical of that -- I believe that it's days are numbered at this point, with the only question being "when" and not "if" it disappears.)
guy0307
04-26-2008, 11:27 AM
Learn To Read.
I didn't say teens don't buy things, I said teens do not make anything a success for more than a few years.
Something gets huge with teens, sales spike, executives buy themselves new car, that set of teens grows up, moves on, new wave of teens wants nothing to do with that old hat crap and product (be it a band, a clothing line, whatever) sinks into obscurity to, if its lucky, get some sort of nostalgia revival a decade or two into the future.
If I have a product, I want it to be popular with the pre-teens (with pre-school to early grade school ideal) or adults, because in either of those cases, if it's good enough, I can keep sales up indefinitely. If it's a teen focused phenom I know with a high degree of certainty I've got, if I'm lucky, four or five years before I'd better have a new line of income.
Even if Zunes (not iPods, again, LTR) are wildly popular with the teen segment, if it doesn't spill over to other demographics, it's a dead end.
EDIT: For examples, see Swatches, New Kids On The Block, Debbie Gibson, Joey Lawrence, Levis 501s, etc. etc. - the youth market burns hot and bright, but it's not sustainable in the vast majority of cases.
But who said you're going for the long run? I'd have no problems changing my products very frequently
Surf Monkey
04-26-2008, 11:54 AM
But who said you're going for the long run? I'd have no problems changing my products very frequently
It's not about what YOU do or don't want, it's about the smart target for Apple (or any similar company). You may be fine with switching brands and products frequently, but that's the exact opposite of the behavior Apple is looking for out of its customers. The philosophy is to generate long term loyalty. In other words, you're not the target Apple customer.
It's not about what YOU do or don't want, it's about the smart target for Apple (or any similar company). You may be fine with switching brands and products frequently, but that's the exact opposite of the behavior Apple is looking for out of its customers. The philosophy is to generate long term loyalty. In other words, you're not the target Apple customer.
That's not what he said.
He said he didn't mind changing PRODUCTS frequently.
He never mentioned going to a rival. Just that he didn't mind getting new Apple products frequently...
At least, that's what i got from it...
Bar.
Surf Monkey
04-26-2008, 12:00 PM
(Don't get me wrong - I personally hope that the iPod classic design stays with us for a long time. Recent events and trends, however, make me very skeptical of that -- I believe that it's days are numbered at this point, with the only question being "when" and not "if" it disappears.)
I don't buy it. Apple didn't rename the thing Classic on a whim. It's an iconic product. It's practically perfect in its current form (though the 4G was probably the apex of usability) and Apple knows that if they dump it, other companies will be scrambling to pick up the slack. I think Classic will be around for a few more years at least. And as far as Touch goes, it's clear that Touch isn't the focus. iPhone is. If any product is intended to be the flagship portable media device, it's iPhone, not Touch IMO.
Code Monkey
04-26-2008, 12:09 PM
But who said you're going for the long run? I'd have no problems changing my products very frequentlyAs Surf Monkey points out, you're not the customer Microsoft or Apple targets. Both of these companies stake their health on creating long term customers through all manner of tactics, some more palatable than others :). The only time they want to see anyone changing brands is if they're changing to their brand.
In general, companies do not stay afloat for as long as Apple or Microsoft have by not caring if their platforms will last longer than the attention span of a high school cheerleader.
Besides, if Microsoft wasn't aiming long(ish) term with the Zune, then why the hell would they have bothered to jump into the DAP market at all? There were plenty of companies already fighting over the limited market share and Microsoft makes plenty of money. There's no reason to invest in the market at all unless you think you can build a platform that will go somewhere.
jhollington
04-26-2008, 12:25 PM
I don't buy it. Apple didn't rename the thing Classic on a whim. It's an iconic product. It's practically perfect in its current form (though the 4G was probably the apex of usability) and Apple knows that if they dump it, other companies will be scrambling to pick up the slack. I think Classic will be around for a few more years at least. And as far as Touch goes, it's clear that Touch isn't the focus. iPhone is. If any product is intended to be the flagship portable media device, it's iPhone, not Touch IMO.
Well, one thing that is for certain is that Apple is spread very thin right now from an engineering point of view.... Both the iPod touch and iPod classic were far less than they should have been, so you could probably make a convincing argument for either device being an afterthought.
I'm not expecting they're going to phase out the classic by this fall -- that's still a bit too soon. However, keep in mind that the term "classic" can have different meanings to different people, and that in itself was a clever marketing strategy.... Long-term iPod users will see "classic" in a different way than many new users will perceive it. To those of us who have been with the iPod for a long time, the word "classic" has connotations of stability, tradition, nostalgia, etc, in the same way a "classic car" comes across.
To many people just getting their first iPod, the term "classic" can just as easily come across as meaning "old" and "antiquated." :)
It's not that Apple necessarily wants to phase out the current design entirely. I don't think the new iPod nano was in any way an afterthought... I think that's where they intended to go, but couldn't get the flash capacities up high enough on either the iPod nano or iPod touch, so they had to stay with a hard-drive-based model. This is at least somewhat apparent from the feature parity that now exists between the two devices, and all of the problems specific to the iPod classic (which if you think about many of them, can be directly attributed to taking a firmware that was designed for a higher-speed flash device and making it work with a hard drive).
Again, I don't personally want to see high-capacity players disappear, but the point is going to come that flash memory sizes are sufficiently large that the hard drive models might very well be phased out in favour of flash-based players. The 32GB iPod touch has already had a dramatic impact on iPod classic sales from the retailers that I've spoken to -- they can't keep the iPod touch on the shelves, yet most customers are passing by the iPod classic as last year's news.
Realistically, it's a question of diminishing returns -- the point is going to come eventually where the flash player capacity reaches a sweet spot that is "good enough" for the vast majority of consumers, and the number of people who seriously demand significantly more storage than that will diminish to a small enough group to be beneath Apple's notice.
Again, it's not a question of "if" but rather "when" -- it may still not happen for a couple of years, or maybe even longer since there are so many other factors that could change the landscape.... Things that push the capacity requirements such as widespread acceptance of higher bitrates or even lossless formats, the appearance of high-definition support on a portable device, and so forth could push the capacity requirements and therefore move that "sweet spot" to a higher number. It's still going to be a consumer-driven situation, but it's going to depend on the marketplace as a whole, not what any individual or small niche group of individuals wants.
I don't buy it. Apple didn't rename the thing Classic on a whim. It's an iconic product. It's practically perfect in its current form (though the 4G was probably the apex of usability) and Apple knows that if they dump it, other companies will be scrambling to pick up the slack. I think Classic will be around for a few more years at least. And as far as Touch goes, it's clear that Touch isn't the focus. iPhone is. If any product is intended to be the flagship portable media device, it's iPhone, not Touch IMO.
Why do you think this? I do think Apple are focusing more on the iPhone but that is because the cell phone market is huge and the want to get a share of it. The Touch is still hugely important because people who can't afford the iPhone (like teens) go for the Touch. I don't see why you think the iPhone is the flagship multimedia player because the Touch is basically the same as it.
Code Monkey
04-26-2008, 03:18 PM
Why do you think this? I do think Apple are focusing more on the iPhone but that is because the cell phone market is huge and the want to get a share of it. The Touch is still hugely important because people who can't afford the iPhone (like teens) go for the Touch. I don't see why you think the iPhone is the flagship multimedia player because the Touch is basically the same as it.I don't completely agree with Surf Monkey (which I'm sure he'll find a huge surprise ;)), but the touch is not at all "basically the same". Now, maybe with whatever refresh/revamp Apple brings out this fall it will become basically the same (or hopefully even better), but for now there are some major shortcomings that leave it as a curious novelty. You yourself confirm it's the red headed step child by mistaking it as a device for people who can't afford an iPhone.
I will never own an iPhone, heck I will never own any cell phone other than a practically free bare bones pay as you go my car broke down and I need to call my wife sort of cell phone.
I will always own some sort of portable media player, I have since the 80s.
The touch should be for someone like me because they're sure never going to sell me an iPhone.
But even if it had the same storage and battery life as a classic at the same (or even slightly lower) price, I'd still buy the classic if I were in the market for one of the current models, because the touch is just that much of an impractical toy.
Touch or not, it needs to be able to do some things as basic as change volume, stop and start, and advance/reverse tracks without having to actually look at it. While they're at it, it could function like a CD changer with shuffle by album like every other iPod that's existed.
Now, if Apple wants to give me a touch with a way to have all the convenience of the clickwheel for basic eyes free navigation AND wants to give me all the fancier navigation the touch interface allows AND wants to actually improve on the playback options with better OS software instead of actually reducing them, hey, I believe the touch could become The iPod and the flagship, but for now, hell to the no.
Surf Monkey
04-26-2008, 04:03 PM
I agree 100% with everything Code Monkey just said. Particularly the line about how Touch should be more than it is. That's the core problem with designating it the top of the Apple PMP line. It's obvious from both the hardware and software design that it isn't. Touch both could and should have been much more than it actually is. I've said this many times before and it remains true: Touch is a subset of iPhone features and designs, not its own, fully realized product. That says nothing about target market or price or anything like that. The only point is that Touch is iPhone-lite on the very face of it. Maybe it won't always be that way, and I think many of us hope it will gain its own identity and get a specific design focus from Apple. But I also think the prospects for that happening are VERY slim.
Surf Monkey
04-26-2008, 04:10 PM
Well, one thing that is for certain is that Apple is spread very thin right now from an engineering point of view.... Both the iPod touch and iPod classic were far less than they should have been, so you could probably make a convincing argument for either device being an afterthought.
I hear everything you're saying and agree with a lot of it... except for this very first paragraph. It seems to me that we draw conclusions about Apple's talent base from the fact that particular products seemed half baked or lacking in focus. Apple is a multi-billion dollar company. They have the ability to grab whatever resources they need to get the projects done that they find important. There are two possibilities here outside of engineering brain drain. One is that Apple simply isn't interested in putting resources behind Classic for whatever reason, be it that they're planing to phase it out or because they think it's fine basically as is. They may have the resources to put behind it but simply choose not to. Second is the idea that Apple may well have thought that their effort WAS focused, fully staffed and resulted in a product update that they were fully satisfied with. In other words, our dissatisfaction with the product and its software isn't necessarily reflective of how Apple thinks about that particular product. It seems to me that the assertion that they're stretched thin is based on shaky evidence at best.
I don't think the Touch will ever be its own product. I think it will always be the iPhone's little brother (well iPhone G1). But that's not a bad thing. I have been waiting for ages for a 3.5" iPod and this is what I got. It does need a few improvements like more memory (I'm sure we'll get) and Flash (I'm sure we won't get). Also the software needs improving. It is still jittery but this probably can be fixed by a download update. Enough about the Touch. It will be interesting to see what they will do to the Nano. Not many changes you could do with it.
Eric Lewis
04-27-2008, 12:24 AM
the touch is for people who
1) dont have there iPhone in their country
2) people who dont need a phone but want to touch there music
thats it really
Astro_Digital
04-27-2008, 08:28 AM
Now, if Apple wants to give me a touch with a way to have all the convenience of the clickwheel for basic eyes free navigation AND wants to give me all the fancier navigation the touch interface allows AND wants to actually improve on the playback options with better OS software instead of actually reducing them, hey, I believe the touch could become The iPod and the flagship, but for now, hell to the no.
Very true I feel the same way.
Now I also agree that Apple could improve on the touch an give the same functionality of a click wheel and let you browse music blind, say have each corner and edge with a function.
But as been said may 30 or 40 times people with 80/160 Gig Classics will always want at least as much storage as they have now or more.
madmaxmedia
04-28-2008, 03:58 PM
I think a realistic scenario for the Classic is for it to continue for the next couple of years, but with minimal upgrades- storage size, firmware. Maybe even shrinking to only a single model at one point, with perhaps a cosmetic refresh at the most.
I think a large capacity player is worth carrying in the line, but probably not worth devoting a lot of design resources to create significant refreshes. Going forward it can remain a profitable unit, as it also has relatively low competition- most companies have switch to flash only.
There may not be enough incentive for Apple to develop a brand new successor, but there's also probably not much incentive for Apple to completely drop the current Classic model.
ThisisCraigP
04-28-2008, 05:05 PM
What I'd really like to see is a new control system for the classic and possible the nano if Apple could fit it on there.
(maybe something like the 3 Generation iPod (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/3G_ipod_in_dock.jpg) I wish)
What I'd really like to see is a new control system for the classic and possible the nano if Apple could fit it on there.
(maybe something like the 3 Generation iPod (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/3G_ipod_in_dock.jpg) I wish)
Ouch!
Please tell me that's a Chinese knock-off...
I came to the iPod late in the game(My first was a 5G 80GB Video, closely followed by an 8GB Product Red Nano 2G).
I think that user interface was phased out for a reason...
Sorry.
Just one man's opinion...
Bar.
Surf Monkey
04-28-2008, 06:16 PM
It was phased out for a reason, the reason being that it sucks.
It was phased out for a reason, the reason being that it sucks.
I got that...
:D
hyroboarder
04-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I still think the 3g and 4g ipods are still the best looking ipods ever. The look started going downhill when they added that layer of plastic on the 5g's, to the complete phase out of the iconic white color.
Code Monkey
04-29-2008, 04:08 PM
...to the complete phase out of the iconic white color.I'd say that was one of their better moves - black had been outselling white since it was introduced in most capacities. At this point, they've probably sold many times more non-white iPods than they ever sold white iPods. White has its fans, but it's not like once they gave people a choice it won the contest.
Besides, the words "iconic" and "Apple" have never implied long term. Apple has constantly re-invented their design aesthetics every few years for as long as Apple has been making stuff. That iPods stayed with the 1950s toaster chique in some form through five major product revisions is something of a record for Apple.
Now if they'll just ditch the chrome back plate they can't let go of, we'll finally be into a truly good physical design.
Surf Monkey
04-29-2008, 07:52 PM
I still think the 3g and 4g ipods are still the best looking ipods ever. The look started going downhill when they added that layer of plastic on the 5g's, to the complete phase out of the iconic white color.
When they added the layer of plastic? I assume you never owned a 1 or 2G iPod? The lucite slab was part of the original design. It was brought back with the 5G, not initiated at that point.
guy0307
05-01-2008, 06:20 AM
It's not about what YOU do or don't want, it's about the smart target for Apple (or any similar company). You may be fine with switching brands and products frequently, but that's the exact opposite of the behavior Apple is looking for out of its customers. The philosophy is to generate long term loyalty. In other words, you're not the target Apple customer.
I'm sure Apple needs long term loyalites, but they also need sales in the teenager age group. If you can't sale at least one product (of your music player line), to teenagers I don't think you'll have much success.
Classic Staple
My thought on the Ipod classic Is that it will be the one model of Ipods that will always keep its basic structural design.
I think the smart move that apple made here is that as time goes on it will always be able to offer a new larger capacity ipod in the same well known design. The Classic will be the staple in the line up that will have the option of more storage with each passing year. And the longer people are ipod users the more and more there librarys will grow. So there will always be a want and need for more capacity.
When the 2007's came out it was a no brainer for me when i saw the classic. I loved my Ipod 5g and to go from 60gb to 160gb was an awesome thing. Now along with 60gb of music i could put a couple of full seasons of TV shows in. Its great to have all this stuff with me at all times.
The more they hold, the more i will buy.
I cant wait for the day when my Ipod can hold everything i own.
Q-Zed
Gripweed
05-12-2008, 06:21 PM
I think they'll update the nano line.
Why? We just got video last year. Why bother updating it?
hyroboarder
05-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Why? We just got video last year. Why bother updating it?
Update doesn't always mean a brand new ipod. It might just get capacity upgrades, brighter screen, different colors, whatever.
Also apple has updated the nano every year since its release, and I realize it's too young of a line to predict much yet but still, an update is inevitable.
hyroboarder
05-12-2008, 06:58 PM
When they added the layer of plastic? I assume you never owned a 1 or 2G iPod? The lucite slab was part of the original design. It was brought back with the 5G, not initiated at that point.
Ok, whatever. It still doesn't change my opinion of the 3/4g.
Why? We just got video last year. Why bother updating it?
Ever since the launch of the nano, Apple has COMPLETELY REPLACED each model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_nano#Models)the next year...
Now, i will be the first to hail the current Nano as prefection, but you can never tell...
Perhaps the memory upgrade is in order.
Certainly 16GB Nanos' are a distict possibility(I'd KILL for a 32GB Nano, but i don't think that will happen).
Code Monkey
05-13-2008, 08:22 AM
Certainly 16GB Nanos' are a distict possibility(I'd KILL for a 32GB Nano, but i don't think that will happen).Seeing as how 16 GB mini players were available from major brand competitors for about the same cost as the 3G 8GB nano when it launched and are now available for less, I'd call it more than a distinct possibility. If we don't at least see the $200 16GB nano, Apple can not get any of my money for another year. By the time they get to their fall roll out there will be 32GB mini players for $250 or less out there. Last year's clickwheel iPods were such non-upgrades that I was only slightly tempted, and that feeling quickly passed. Apple's flash capacity price points are really only eclipsed by some of Sony's crazy premium models. They're suffering from some serious Microsoft style complacency - when they first launched the nano, they were leading the industry in flash based player price points, now they're not even trying to compete.
jhollington
05-13-2008, 10:45 AM
I think it comes down to Apple's obsession with price points.... They seem to be so concerned about keeping things at certain price points that I wouldn't be surprised if they figure out what they're going to sell something for before they even design the device.... ;)
Even the iTunes Store content shows this fixation with prices, with only the very recent HBO content starting to buck that trend, and even then only slightly.... It's not really "variable" pricing in the true sense -- merely a set premium price for specific content.
Apple has set a certain price point for the nano, and I think they'll expend a great deal of time and energy keeping it at that maximum price point. If they can sell a 16GB nano for the same price as today's 8GB nano, they'll likely do it in a heartbeat, but if a 16GB nano means that they would have to increase the price by even $50, they'll stay in the 8GB range to keep the nano positioned where they want it to be -- as the lower-end model.
And to add the standard disclaimer.... Lest anybody misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting that I agree or disagree with this practice (in reality, I don't really care much either way), but it's very obvious that pricing is a much stronger part of Apple's marketing strategy than it is for many other companies.
jouster
05-17-2008, 08:59 PM
Why? We just got video last year. Why bother updating it?
Well, they have every year until now. And there are marketing reasons for doing so, not just technical/specs ones.
I think it comes down to Apple's obsession with price points.... They seem to be so concerned about keeping things at certain price points that I wouldn't be surprised if they figure out what they're going to sell something for before they even design the device.... ;)
Apple is not obsessed with price points. Rather the market has shown that they can make buckets of money at the existing prices, so there is absolutely no reason to change them.
paranoidxe
05-21-2008, 08:28 AM
iPod Touch Upgrades
64GB Model
Drop in price for all preceding models [16GB/32GB]
8GB removed from the line
Forward/Back Buttons
Some interface enhancements
Some design change [all aluminum?]
Enhanced Battery Life
iPod Nano/Classic
Capacity Upgrades [16GB for Nano, 160GB/240GB Classics..going off the theory HD capacity increases ~40% every year.]
Screen size increase [specifically the classic to 2.8" or 3.0"]
Can't really see any serious upgrades like Wifi without seriously changing the design of the product..the click wheel would be a pita to work with for internet
Modest battery life increases
iPod Shuffle
Screen model comparable to the Zen Stone Plus
Surf Monkey
05-21-2008, 12:39 PM
It's amazingly frustrating when people make a 1:1 connection in their minds between Wi-Fi and the Internet. Try and remember that there are plenty of other things that Wi-Fi could bring to Nano/Classic than Internet.
It's amazingly frustrating when people make a 1:1 connection in their minds between Wi-Fi and the Internet. Try and remember that there are plenty of other things that Wi-Fi could bring to Nano/Classic than Internet.
Yeah... Like wireless sync. I hate wires, so I'll be super happy when they make them update just by bringing them close to my computer :D
I don't think we will see 64GB Touchs this year as i think 64GB flash memory is dear. I think we will see Touches with the new firmware on them coming out in June.
Obviously.
Apple never release a product without the latest software.
Austintm95
05-22-2008, 03:05 PM
I think the nano will get a small touchscreen just maybe a couple of centimeters then it is now.
Obviously.
Apple never release a product without the latest software.
Well they mightn't bother releasing an upgraded Touch and make you pay for the upgrade
iPod_Luva4Life
05-26-2008, 03:43 AM
I predict that Apple will...
Drop the 1GB shuffle and only have the 2GB one.
Drop the 4GB nano, keep the 8GB nano, and come out with a 16GB nano.
Come out with a 40GB iPod classic for people who don't want an 80GB or 160GB one.
Come out with a 64GB touch. (maybe later...)
Come out with the 3G iPhone, and possibly a 32GB one.
Everything will hopefully have a price drop.
Surf Monkey
05-26-2008, 04:12 AM
A capacity drop for the Classic? Not likely.
Code Monkey
05-26-2008, 08:51 AM
Come out with a 40GB iPod classic for people who don't want an 80GB or 160GB one.You clearly have not paid much attention to electronic parts pricing. Once the technology exists to make higher capacity hard drive, there is no incentive to continue production of smaller ones since they cost at least as much as their larger counterparts. iPods have a long history of offering the iPods in single and double platter hard drive models (this is why the high capacity is double the lower capacity one). There is simply no way Apple would offer another single platter iPod in a lower capacity. Once volume discounting is taken into account, your 40GB iPod would probably cost more than the 80GB (which brings up another logical lapse in your post: do you seriously think Apple's not going to move to whatever the next most economical larger size hard drive platters are?).
Surf Monkey
05-26-2008, 01:06 PM
In other words; a capacity drop for the Classic? Not likely.
iPod_Luva4Life
05-26-2008, 09:33 PM
You're right Surf Monkey.
A better idea would be to make classics have SSD's
A 64GB and a 128GB or even a 128GB and a 256GB
Code Monkey
05-26-2008, 09:41 PM
You're right Surf Monkey.
A better idea would be to make classics have SSD's
A 64GB and a 128GB or even a 128GB and a 256GBYou realise that just your 128GB SSD based classic would cost well over $3000 right?
jouster
05-28-2008, 08:33 AM
You realise that just your 128GB SSD based classic would cost well over $3000 right?
And it would be gigantic.
64gb ipod touch, with a side button to skip forward and backwards on tracks.
Dream come true. there is no reason that Apple could not release this. None. I will be very, VERY disappointed if they just release a 32gb with new firmware or something. Even a 48gb ipod touch would work, just something more than 32gb.
psychspirit
07-06-2008, 12:30 PM
so..no chances of a nano touch screen? I always end up buying stuff at the wrong time...I was going to buy the nano today...should I wait until sept?
Surf Monkey
07-06-2008, 01:52 PM
so..no chances of a nano touch screen? I always end up buying stuff at the wrong time...I was going to buy the nano today...should I wait until sept?
Nano is too small for a touch screen.
Hollywood1127
07-06-2008, 01:59 PM
I believe that the new Ipod Touche's will be advertised and September and October, along with a brief summary of its new features.
emjoi
07-06-2008, 07:32 PM
No, the Nano is not too small for a touch screen. It might be too small for an iPhone user interface, but if it had its simple menu system, but touchable, it would work fine.
It's not that small of a screen.
I'm not saying that it should be done, merely that it could be done.
Yeah, but it wouldn't be the same multitouch me thinks. That takes too advanced an operating system to process the two touch's dynamics at the same time.
Surf Monkey
07-07-2008, 12:56 AM
No, the Nano is not too small for a touch screen. It might be too small for an iPhone user interface, but if it had its simple menu system, but touchable, it would work fine.
It's not that small of a screen.
I'm not saying that it should be done, merely that it could be done.
It's a question of usability. A postage stamp sized screen could be made to work with a touch interface, but that doesn't mean it would be practical or user friendly. Nano's screen is simply too small to justify a touch interface. Even if the screen covered the whole face of the device it would still be too small to be practical. Remember, Apple is all about usability. Micro touch interfaces don't really fit with that philosophy.
jasoncordelle
07-07-2008, 05:25 PM
It's a question of usability. A postage stamp sized screen could be made to work with a touch interface, but that doesn't mean it would be practical or user friendly. Nano's screen is simply too small to justify a touch interface. Even if the screen covered the whole face of the device it would still be too small to be practical. Remember, Apple is all about usability. Micro touch interfaces don't really fit with that philosophy.
Agreed.
You'd need a stylus to use a screen that small...or a small person that has little fingers.
Personally I can't see either being a part of the pack with a new nano...
joker0153
07-08-2008, 05:21 AM
Full front face touch screen iPod nano? Hmmm....
I am sure it's do-able...
But you know what i'd LOVE?
A very small mobile phone. Let's call it iPhone Nano for the sake of arguement. iPhone Nano would be basically a Nano with a speaker and a microphone.
It could be made with click wheel interface, and mostly controlled via iTunes(Fast addition of new contacts, etc).
Imagine a new menu on the Nano(Phone), and when you scroll to Phone/Numbers/, you'd select the number you'd want to call, and hit the enter key.
A Nano with a "no bells and whistles" phone would be handy to me...
I could live without txt on it. I could live without e-mail.
It's be handy to have a nano that could also make calls...
Maybe it's just a crazy notion i had that would interest no-one else...
Bar.
hyroboarder
07-08-2008, 03:17 PM
there will never be a cell phone made anymore that can't text if a company plans on selling more than 7 units. A smaller iphone would be nice, but it would have to have texting.
there will never be a cell phone made anymore that can't text if a company plans on selling more than 7 units. A smaller iphone would be nice, but it would have to have texting.
Once again, just a thought i had.
I was only thinking about the clickwheel functionality.
Maybe that's the reason i don't work for Apple coming up with product ideas...;)
Bar.
Surf Monkey
07-08-2008, 03:33 PM
iPhone Nano has been on the rumor mills for ages. It's very doubtful that Apple would make such a thing though. I mean, think about it: the iPhone OS is barely able to fit on the current iPhone's screen. Looking at it, it seems pretty obvious that it was developed to work optimally on a larger, not a smaller screen. If anything, Apple is likely to release a larger iPhone or iPhone OS based device, not a smaller one.
iPhone Nano has been on the rumor mills for ages. It's very doubtful that Apple would make such a thing though. I mean, think about it: the iPhone OS is barely able to fit on the current iPhone's screen. Looking at it, it seems pretty obvious that it was developed to work optimally on a larger, not a smaller screen. If anything, Apple is likely to release a larger iPhone or iPhone OS based device, not a smaller one.
I know what you're saying, dude.
I'd love a bare-bones phone piggy-backed onto a nano is all.
I know they never would.
It would be handy to have a Nano that could also make calls.
I may be alone in that thinking.
But it was only an idea(While we are all putting out our ideas, i just thought i'd sling my one out).
I didn't mean to upset anyone.
Bar.
iPhone nano would have to get a drastically reduced interface to work. I don't think the size will change much for iPhone, except perhaps thickness.
joker0153
07-09-2008, 05:46 AM
iPhone OS can be ported into the nano, with the Nano's dense ppi, I think a 2.5 inch(the whole Nano's face) can make a 480x320 resolution (you do remember the HTC touch right? it has a VGA resoluion 640x480 in such a small screen)
haha... No, the iPhone OS as is would burn a hole through the back of the nano because the processor couldn't hack the heat.
Astro_Digital
07-09-2008, 10:43 AM
I never Text or plan on it so they only have to sell 6 more.
Nobody I know an most people I know are are 30 or older do not text.
A Nano with an additional ability to make calls I think would sell. People by phones now that only play music and make calls.
Surf Monkey
07-09-2008, 11:23 AM
iPhone OS can be ported into the nano, with the Nano's dense ppi, I think a 2.5 inch(the whole Nano's face) can make a 480x320 resolution (you do remember the HTC touch right? it has a VGA resoluion 640x480 in such a small screen)
Anything "can" happen. Will this happen? Don't hold your breath. A Nano with touch screen and/or a Nano with a phone built in is probably never going to happen. Dream all you like, but remember to come back to reality.
I never Text or plan on it so they only have to sell 6 more.
Nobody I know an most people I know are are 30 or older do not text.
A Nano with an additional ability to make calls I think would sell. People by phones now that only play music and make calls.
Count me in, now they only have to sell 5.
All I need is an iPod where I can call people on it so I don't have to carry a cell phone. Make it pay as you go and I'm getting one for sure!
jasoncordelle
07-09-2008, 04:29 PM
I never Text or plan on it so they only have to sell 6 more.
Nobody I know an most people I know are are 30 or older do not text.
You and your circle of friends/colleagues/acquaintances are by far in the minority - globally speaking.
Surf Monkey
07-09-2008, 04:47 PM
You and your circle of friends/colleagues/acquaintances are by far in the minority - globally speaking.
You think that the majority of over 3 billion humans on the planet use MMS?
jasoncordelle
07-09-2008, 04:50 PM
No - I believe that the majority of mobile phone users worldwide use MMS.
Surf Monkey
07-09-2008, 05:02 PM
No - I believe that the majority of mobile phone users worldwide use MMS.
I believe you're obsessed with this subject. Easy solution: don't buy iPhone. Problem solved.
jasoncordelle
07-09-2008, 08:01 PM
I believe you're obsessed with this subject. Easy solution: don't buy iPhone. Problem solved.
I have no intention of buying an iPhone. Not until they can include the most basic of 3G functions that the rest of the world expects.
I am a little obsessed with the subject, but mainly because the iPhone-buying public seem so blinkered by the marketing and hype that they don't see just how much is missing from this product.
Ah well - good luck with your purchases and i hope they make you all very happy...after all, that is what it is all about
jhollington
07-09-2008, 08:05 PM
To be fair, if I was a heavy MMS user, and/or knew people who were, I would probably care as well. I'm not, and in my circle of friends and associates, I'm really not kidding when I say that nobody I know uses it.
It's not that some of us are blind to the iPhone's limitations.... It's more that some of us have decided that the extra features are less important than what is there. I made that very conscious decision myself last year when I went from a Nokia E90, which did everything I could possibly imagine (but none of it well) over to the iPhone, which did the few things I really needed, and did them very well.
Ah well - good luck with your purchases and i hope they make you all very happy...after all, that is what it is all aboutCouldn't agree more.