Piece of commercial junk

[BigalGeorge]

My daughter just spent all her savings on a Touch. I was the one relegated to get her tunes on the machine, but
a) you are forced to use Itunes - the unit wont act as a drive
b) you have no folder view in Itunes
c) the IPOD icon desktop keeps coming up from new trying to SELL her a $30 upgrade
d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod
e) wifi required the unit to be reset before it worked
I am a computer user with 20 years experience who programs and works with PC. I have NEVER had the displeasure of using such an expensive toy that has very little flexibility of application or storage use.

It seems the Nano model has more to offer than this higher spec Touch.
My first Apple is definitely my last.
Cheers,
Al.

[bobbit]

Uh, for starters it states very clearly what's required both on the box and on Apple's website, so as for a, b and d that's your bad, not Apple's.

As for c, that can be removed by clicking the 'No Thanks' button in the lower-left corner.

And e, well, I don't know exactly what you meant by that but, while I'll admit the WiFi procedure is as good as it could be, it's one of the most simple and easy-to-use systems in a handheld device.

The reason you can't access the iPod as a storage device is to protect the complex operating system on it, as it does run Mac OSX.

The SDK for the device will be released in February, when you will be able to add more than the default applications. You can also jailbreak it now and have it completely opened up for third-party applications.

[Touchmyipod]

Ummmmm....okay

I'll buy it from her for a nice price considering it is used! :cool:

[bobbit]

Since it's such a bad, useless product, I think we'll start the bids at $30.

[BigalGeorge]

Since it's such a bad, useless product, I think we'll start the bids at $30.
Unfortunately, its not mine - she likes what its supposed to do, and the screen, otherwise I would start a bidding now!

[Dougfnj]

There are certain things I am not nuts with Apple about, but the things you list here are all mentioned in reviews and are not secrets.

A. This has been made clear from the beginning Ipod is an extension of Itunes.
B. The Folders to view the files and folders are on the Ipod, however, if you want to take the risk, you can jailbreak it and find full access to folders.
C The upgrade is $20 and if you hop on Best Buy or Circuit City quickly, you could probably save your daughter a couple of dollars, and use some of that moeney towards the upgrade.
D. Again, it was never stated you could drag and drop from the Ipod, but you can drag and drop from Itunes.
E. Mine didn't, I entered WiFi, input my passcode and I was in....I can't answer that one, maybe a minor crash?

Once the Software Development Kit is released, it will be a much better experience, hang in there, it is a new Consumer electronic item. It really is a great tool for what it is made for. Music, Video, Internet, and YouTube, now with the applications you can use e-mail, maps, notes, weather and stocks. You also have internet WebApps, and more to come.

[BigalGeorge]

Uh, for starters it states very clearly what's required both on the box and on Apple's website, so as for a, b and d that's your bad, not Apple's.

As for c, that can be removed by clicking the 'No Thanks' button in the lower-left corner.

And e, well, I don't know exactly what you meant by that but, while I'll admit the WiFi procedure is as good as it could be, it's one of the most simple and easy-to-use systems in a handheld device.

The reason you can't access the iPod as a storage device is to protect the complex operating system on it, as it does run Mac OSX.

The SDK for the device will be released in February, when you will be able to add more than the default applications. You can also jailbreak it now and have it completely opened up for third-party applications.
Cheers for reply:
[no thanks button] I will have to look a bit harder - all I can see is [ask later] button.
Its pretty mean asking to buy something on the first opening IMHO.
wifi - yes its easy, but if you did not know to reset, then you would be asking for help; pretty pathetic when my $100 cellphone works straight out of the box.
Re storage device - well the rest of the apple models have it - and there are methods to secure the firmware so thats no excuse sorry.
Quote from one of the Itunes substitute programs: 'Does SharePod support my iPod Touch?
No, it doesn't. The iPod Touch is quite different to other iPods, and I dont have one on my desk to play with yet!'
Al.

[daihard]

Unfortunately, its not mine - she likes what its supposed to do, and the screen, otherwise I would start a bidding now!
Ah, so it's just a parent who can't seem to catch up with what's "in" these days, huh? :)

Jokes aside, one of the greatest things about Apple products is that they are very easy to set up and use. They do what they're supposed to do. You don't need to be able to view a media player connected to a PC as a folder, for instance.

[Touchmyipod]

Well buying something(apps) on first opening isn't that mean, since everyone else had to buy it (apps) as well. Also she could've waited several days and not had to pay for that option, what was the price tag anyway??

I believe iPhone dont have the 'hard disk' feature either, so not all models have it. I didn't have to reset my router, and I am password protected and everything, simply just put the password in, perhaps your router doesn't have the latest firmware, I heard some people say that helped.

But honestly, your daughter is going to like it, so why would you honestly care about its features if she is digging it? You said she was, be happy your daughter is getting a kick out of it...

[cowboyshootist]

Cheers for reply:
[no thanks button] I will have to look a bit harder - all I can see is [ask later] button.
Its pretty mean asking to buy something on the first opening IMHO.
wifi - yes its easy, but if you did not know to reset, then you would be asking for help; pretty pathetic when my $100 cellphone works straight out of the box.
Re storage device - well the rest of the apple models have it - and there are methods to secure the firmware so thats no excuse sorry.
Quote from one of the Itunes substitute programs: 'Does SharePod support my iPod Touch?
No, it doesn't. The iPod Touch is quite different to other iPods, and I dont have one on my desk to play with yet!'
Al.

You can probably get the additional programs for free if you contact Apple and tell them you just bought the unit. Or take it back where you got it and ask for a $20 rebate. The cost of the upgrades is old news so basically it's your fault for not realizing that from the get-go.

I don't know why you had issues with WiFi. I put in my SSID, WEP security passkey and no reset was required. Maybe you should have done a little study on wireless networking in the last 20 years.

As far as I know there are no devices where you can simply drag and drop from CD/DVD to the device. In all the cases I know of you must convert to a format that the device can recognize. I'll admit that Apple doesn't support as many formats as other devices but you still have to convert for those devices. You might also want to study up on multi-media protocols and how to use them.

As for being a generic storage device, if that's what you want get a USB drive. This is a personal media player and as such does a very credible job. Don't blame Apple for the draconian DRM and copyright laws that make transporting your own music and videos to multiple devices easily.

[BigalGeorge]

Well buying something(apps) on first opening isn't that mean, since everyone else had to buy it (apps) as well. Also she could've waited several days and not had to pay for that option, what was the price tag anyway??

I believe iPhone dont have the 'hard disk' feature either, so not all models have it. I didn't have to reset my router, and I am password protected and everything, simply just put the password in, perhaps your router doesn't have the latest firmware, I heard some people say that helped.

But honestly, your daughter is going to like it, so why would you honestly care about its features if she is digging it? You said she was, be happy your daughter is getting a kick out of it...

I had to reset the IPOD not the router; a newby would have to ask for help I am sure, and going by other threads in this forum, there will be many who experience the same wifi shortcoming in this product setup.

As I said earlier, daughter likes it cause the screen is cool, and the only other products she have are a cellphone and screenless MP3 player, and she knows no better. (I recall thinking the first IBM PC were really flash, but would you have one of those now?) Anyway, I left her to try and sync the files and despite she is 15, uses computers here and at college and no fool, she had to ask me; this is when I found the limitations of the software, and device.

Many folks dont like to have syncronised folders but with the Itunes that does not seem possible. I prefer Windows explorer like interface, but Apple refuse to enable a folder files and directory view in the icon view options which seems crazy.

However, going by the way this thread is unfolding, its apparent there are lots who are happy with the Touch, but I am sure millions more would be if only it was not so constrictive in its operation.
Kind regards,
Alistair.

[bobbit]

Many folks dont like to have syncronised folders but with the Itunes that does not seem possible. I prefer Windows explorer like interface, but Apple refuse to enable a folder files and directory view in the icon view options which seems crazy.



There has never been an iPod that has had a Windows explorer like interface and I don't think I've even seen a third-party client that's done it. Yes, you can add your own files, but iTunes converts photos, videos and music to something you can't just drag and drop AND uses databases rather than simple rubbish that you get in $5 mp3 players.

By the sounds of things you were hoping for a Mac Mini in this, not a media player. That's what it is. It's an iPod with a big screen and web browser.

Also, if you take some time, iTunes is actually incredibly easy to use and everyone I've converted to it who used to follow the 'Oh god, iTunes, Burn it!' trend now loves it. Yeah, there are some that don't but hey.

I still don't understand what you mean by you reset the iPod. Did you restart it or restore it? It's a pretty random and unfortunate occurence to have to restore it for something like this and hardly Apple's fault. For most people WiFi works OTB.

[spot1701]

I had to reset the IPOD not the router; a newby would have to ask for help I am sure, and going by other threads in this forum, there will be many who experience the same wifi shortcoming in this product setup.
It's possible you have a faulty iPod. I have connected to many different wifi networks and have yet HAD to reset the iPod to get it to work.
As I said earlier, daughter likes it cause the screen is cool, and the only other products she have are a cellphone and screenless MP3 player, and she knows no better. (I recall thinking the first IBM PC were really flash, but would you have one of those now?)
Your daughter is 15. She knows cool. You as a parent do not. A sad fact of life I'm afraid.
But part of Apple's appeal is the "coolness". But IBM PC cool? I think we see the problem.
It's cool to think Apple products are cool. You're a geek if you think PC products are cool :)
Anyway, I left her to try and sync the files and despite she is 15, uses computers here and at college and no fool, she had to ask me; this is when I found the limitations of the software, and device.
The limitations are mainly due to your lack of knowledge about iPods and how they function.
Many folks dont like to have syncronised folders but with the Itunes that does not seem possible. I prefer Windows explorer like interface, but Apple refuse to enable a folder files and directory view in the icon view options which seems crazy.
Are we suck in a PC rut maybe? Resistant of change? Don't like new things?
iPod's have MACOSX on it (or a version of) which is Unix. So your windows like explorer view isn't going to help you here. Allowing people to view all the folders on an iPod would cause more problems than it solved.

iPods are very easy to use. iTunes is very easy to use. Apple's website is full of helpful tutorials if you can't get your head around it.

I'm sure your daughter is more than happy with the iPod. Don't project your problems on to her and her COOL new "toy".

[Puffnstuff]

flame much? So let me get this straight you do not have a touch but your kid has one. You did not buy it she bought it for herself. And she likes it so what the hell is the problem? It's not yours or maybe you are jealous.

[BlackWolf]

My daughter just spent all her savings on a Touch. I was the one relegated to get her tunes on the machine, but
a) you are forced to use Itunes - the unit wont act as a drive
b) you have no folder view in Itunes
c) the IPOD icon desktop keeps coming up from new trying to SELL her a $30 upgrade
d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod
e) wifi required the unit to be reset before it worked
I am a computer user with 20 years experience who programs and works with PC. I have NEVER had the displeasure of using such an expensive toy that has very little flexibility of application or storage use.

It seems the Nano model has more to offer than this higher spec Touch.
My first Apple is definitely my last.
Cheers,
Al.

I think all things you mentioned are related to itunes (except the app pack, that IS annoying, it asks me every time I connect -_-)

what you have to understand is that unlike other ipods the touch is running a full OS X, not just some ipod firmware. this means that if you enabled disk usage everyone could just see all the system files which wouldn't be very good - for apple and for most users (actually that's what people do when they jailbreak their ipods - they get access to the harddrive. and if you don't know what you're doing you can really screw your ipod easily)

secondly, even if you COULD use the ipod as a disk it wouldn't help since you can't just drag&drop media files onto it. this is because the ipod does not just scan its hard drive or a specific folder on the hard drive for media, it uses a database just like itunes does. apple uses that because its WAY faster than any kind of normal file system and it allows apple to build some pretty nice features into their ipods (playcounts/ratings, smart playlists, very fast listing of all artists/albums a.s.o)

of course, like almost everything in the world, this has downsides, but apple decided to go this way and I personally like it. it's just the better way to do those things in my opinion than just go with a normal drag&drop-thing and make things slow and uncomfortable.

well, at least your daughter seems happy, and that's the important thing, isn't it? ;-)

[Willie5566]

Great thread!! Glad to see iLoungers fighting back. I am sick of these threads where people come to a site that is filled with iPod enthusiasts and then bash the product we all adore.

Don't get me wrong the iPod is not perfect. What is? I get frustrated with the movie situation as well. There are ways around everything though. There are also a million accessories that make this the most versatile music device on the market.

I bought my first iPod about 4 years ago. It was a big investment and I was worried if it was worth it. 4 years, almost $1000 and three iPods later, I have no complaints. I love this device. IMO nothing else comes close.

Sorry for your troubles. I will be in line with the others waiting to bid on your daughters Touch when you want to part ways with it.

[mc4]

It's not hard to use. It's simply using a system you're not used to. Once you understand how it work it becomes very intuitive. Consider it a bonding experience with your daughter. Hopefully you were more civil to her.

[bobbit]

I don't get why I saw the 'No Thanks' button and no one else does. ):

[DerekVOF]

Eh, maybe it's me, but I say "Don't feed the troll!"

Move along... there's nothing to see here....

[BlackWolf]

I don't get why I saw the 'No Thanks' button and no one else does. ):

there was one when the pack was released. but it was ... taken out? don't know. it isn't there anymore, and anyone who didn't upgrade to 1.1.3 before the button disappeared wasn't able to click "no thanks" and gets prompted every time you connect the ipod ... very very annoying.

[mc4]

I don't get why I saw the 'No Thanks' button and no one else does. ):
Once you say remind me later 5 or so times it gives you the options to say "no thanks". Just another slap in the face.

[undisputedmvp]

Sounds like you should've done a little research before purchasing an expensive product, you should know this with you 20+ years of computer skills.

[BigalGeorge]

Sounds like you should've done a little research before purchasing an expensive product, you should know this with you 20+ years of computer skills.
This is getting amusing.
There are many repliers to my post, most of which have not actually bothered to read the posts at all and rip into my comments as if they were personally affronted.

Repeat - My daughter brought the IPOD, not me. She raced in and brought it with her savings before I could research it properly for her. She could not use Itunes to get her music on the IPOD, so asked me. In doing the job for her, I found the interface a pain in the butt compared to several other mp3 player. Forget my daughter being happy with it; I am happy for her, but would be happier if the thing worked in a manner which she could pick up just as easily as she has other technical challenges.

Yes, I have programmed for about 20 years, and yes, I am fixed in some methods. I do like the Mac computer, albeit it is not capable of doing many jobs which I need in hardware development.

The IPOD Touch is IMHO an annoying product because of some of the methods of its implementation. To sell a product then immediately ask for an upgrade is an effrontery to me - thats my opinion as well of course; maybe many of you think thats cool - I dont. That is my comment and I appreciate others taking the time to reply and advise its limited due to running its own OS. However, my phone runs Symbian, and that does not limit its capabilities to work with PC or Mac in a very flexible manner.
Kind regards,
Alistair.

[BlackWolf]

This is getting amusing.
There are many repliers to my post, most of which have not actually bothered to read the posts at all and rip into my comments as if they were personally affronted.

Repeat - My daughter brought the IPOD, not me. She raced in and brought it with her savings before I could research it properly for her. She could not use Itunes to get her music on the IPOD, so asked me. In doing the job for her, I found the interface a pain in the butt compared to several other mp3 player. Forget my daughter being happy with it; I am happy for her, but would be happier if the thing worked in a manner which she could pick up just as easily as she has other technical challenges.

Yes, I have programmed for about 20 years, and yes, I am fixed in some methods. I do like the Mac computer, albeit it is not capable of doing many jobs which I need in hardware development.

The IPOD Touch is IMHO an annoying product because of some of the methods of its implementation. To sell a product then immediately ask for an upgrade is an effrontery to me - thats my opinion as well of course; maybe many of you think thats cool - I dont. That is my comment and I appreciate others taking the time to reply and advise its limited due to running its own OS. However, my phone runs Symbian, and that does not limit its capabilities to work with PC or Mac in a very flexible manner.
Kind regards,
Alistair.

well, first of all regarding the app pack: that is annoying. a lot of people were very very angry about the way the app pack was released and that ipod touch users get charged for it - I won't argue there because I really support you. buying a 300 dollar product and then being asked to pay another 20 dollars is just stupid.

but regarding the ipods limited capabilities: I don't say its technically impossible to run a full OS on the ipod and still give you the ability to use it as an external hard drive. but apple actually has limited capabilites on ALL ipods. for example you were never able to delete stuff on an ipod or to view file information. a lot of the tags that itunes stores are not even displayed on the ipod (for example year, track number, ...).
the upside of this is that (at least in my opinion, and I guess a lot of people would agree with me on that) ipods are very very intuative and very very easy to use. seriously. take an ipod classic and navigate it - you can't really do anything wrong, it's really easy.
same goes for the touch. it has some more functions than other ipods and is therefore a little more difficult to use, but still its very very easy in my opinion. most stuff is self-explaining.
and, well, that's the way apple chose their ipods to be. they left a lot of stuff out other players have. BUT that makes the ipod just one of the most intuative devices I ever had. other companies give the user the posibility to do almost everything. this is nice, but makes the interface more complicated and the usage more difficult. both are decent models - if the ipod model doesn't fit your needs than you just shouldn't buy an ipod for yourself, it's as simple as that.

[Harley05]

The ipod touch is by no means for everyone. The interface and how it functions is what sets it apart from other older generation Ipods. The smaller storage is merely form over function. Sleek and light over bulky, if you consider a 5th gen Ipod Video bulky.

I personally enjoy the Touch more then my 80gig video for the interface, the screen size and the wifi which I use at the housee alot to surf on itunes from my lounge chair vs sitting at my conputer desk. Ipod Touch is very well built for what it was designed to do. I understand you not liking it and it's not for everyone.

The teenagers (like your daughter) get it, Steve Jobs "gets it" and that's why the Iphone in 90 days has more market share then all but 2 brands. Itouch jailbroken has alot more features you maybe looking for from file folders, access to data etc, but with 8 or 16gig it's not really meant to be a storage device/backup device.

It's mobile entertainment which no other product offers in the manner (interface) Apple delivers it.

Piece of commercial junk.. not really, just not understanding how a product works make people form uneducated opinions. That makes their opinions junk... enjoy your PC and limited knowledge of anything Apple or Mac.

[nakile]

All the iPod Touches that don't have the new application pack pre-installed were dropped in price by $20 in order to make up for the money needed to buy the upgrade. For example, the $299 dollar iPod Touch would be $279. However, new units with the upgrade installed still cost $299.

If she did pay the normal price, she was ripped off.

As for the iTunes complaints, most iPods can function as an external drive. This is mostly because the firmware isn't located on the drive. The iPT is the exact opposite. Apple locked the drive out because they didn't really want people to be going into the thing and deleting the wrong stuff. Then we would have people complaining that their iPT died for no reason. ;)

But once your daughter starts to sync other stuff, such as photos and podcast with her iPT, you will both see why iTunes is a superior way of managing a portable device.

[BigalGeorge]

There are methods that Steve Jobs et al could have implemented that protect the O/S yet allow the 16Gb be used as a drive. Sure, some idiots could crack any protection if they had the clues, but if they did damage it would be rare and their fault.
I see two sides to the coin:
1..Apple by virtue of Itunes is empowering their ability to sell you add-ons as previously mentioned (which really gets up my nose)
2..By optionally (but keep Itunes) enabling a drive type interface the plethora of MS O/S users would be satisfied, plus it opens the Itouch to much more development potential by third party programmers. EG for me to program for an external device is way easier than having to deal with an Apple SDK (if one comes) for the Touch. This would as an aside increase the sales of the product.

Enough said - I am happy for the many who are happy with their Ipods including my daughter until next time she comes asking for me to help her use Itunes again; and then, as a Dad I will have to :(
Best wishes,
Al.

[nph9791]

You complain about you not being able to " drag and drop" directly from a CD. I can't think of a single device on the market that can do that. Also the upgrade is $19.99 not $30.

[BigalGeorge]

You complain about you not being able to " drag and drop" directly from a CD. I can't think of a single device on the market that can do that. Also the upgrade is $19.99 not $30.
Many programs can including standard Explorer, except when the codec is not compliant. eg music file were mp3 there has to be an intermediary step whereby the codec is changed to suit the Ipod. However, there are many, many programs which can do this transparently to the user. In all cases that I know of the destination has to be a storage device, which the touch is not.
Al.

[nph9791]

I will agree that the first time that you use iTunes, it is hard to figure out how to import CDs. But the more that you become familar with it, the easier it becomes. Once you get into it, things will seem very simple and you will see that iTunes actually is very easy to use. it makes more sense to database your music rather than to deal with folders that often become disorganized like in WMP, not to mention names or anything

[nph9791]

you're right I should have said program. But when dealing with a database, the file has be run through a program as you said. But, the reason that the iPod touch cannot be a destination is because the new iPod touch AND iPhone sync using a different method than what was used with previous ipods. Now, disk level access is no longer needed. therefore, you are not able to use it as an external hard disk. Also apple is protecting the OS by not letting the user free roam the HD. I do realize that they could do other things in order to lock the user out of the OS but they did not. Maybe you can suggest it to them in a firmware update by going to their website. :)

[nph9791]

By the way, I have an iPod touch and I enjoy it very much. It is by far the easiest and most fun device that I own.


P.S.
All posts on this website have been from my iPod touch, which proves that some people actually like these things and can figure out how to use them...

[nph9791]

What I meant by drag and drop was that you can't drag DIRECTLY from CD to iPod.

[daihard]

Many programs can including standard Explorer, except when the codec is not compliant. eg music file were mp3 there has to be an intermediary step whereby the codec is changed to suit the Ipod. However, there are many, many programs which can do this transparently to the user. In all cases that I know of the destination has to be a storage device, which the touch is not.
Al.
I have a hard time understanding why you insist the iPod touch give you a Windows Explorer like interface. Almost all, if not all, average users will never need to access their media player as a viewable drive. iTunes does everything for you to make it simple; that's part of the reason the iPod is very popular.

BTW, it was only my first few years that I was excited to use Windows. As of now, I feel that Mac OS X is a much, much better OS for the general public, and that Linux is a much, much better OS for the professional developers. Maybe it's just me. :)

[Icebook]

As I said earlier, daughter likes it cause the screen is cool, and the only other products she have are a cellphone and screenless MP3 player, and she knows no better. (I recall thinking the first IBM PC were really flash, but would you have one of those now?) Anyway, I left her to try and sync the files and despite she is 15, uses computers here and at college and no fool, she had to ask me; this is when I found the limitations of the software, and device.

Many folks dont like to have syncronised folders but with the Itunes that does not seem possible. I prefer Windows explorer like interface, but Apple refuse to enable a folder files and directory view in the icon view options which seems crazy.
.

Wow.
I hope your daughter has someone to help her with her grammar and spelling.

[nph9791]

But in all fairness, he was expecting the iPod touch to act like a windows product and be overly complicated and have a folder view interface. I mean come on, why don't you see that...

Apple made the iPod touch, not microsoft. Its probably not going to act like a windows device. Get over it. Its really not that hard to use. That's why apple has 70% of the market, and not microsoft.

[paranoidxe]

I don't think the OP is aware there is a MANUAL MANAGEMENT MODE in which you can drag n drop files straight onto the iPod through the iTunes interface which would be almost exactly like using Windows Explorer except instead of dragging it to another explorer window it goes to iTunes instead.

Please name me a program that you can just drag n drop songs from a CD into explorer and it'll automatically convert it to a playable computer format (e.g. mp3, aac, ogg, etc.)..because I'm really curious.

Yes iTunes is a bloated pig and poorly coded buggy POS..but it DOES have a huge advantage..SMART PLAYLISTS. Plus its pretty easy to get firmware updates through iTunes rather than to have to browse a website to get firmware updates from other players.

Sell her a $30 upgrade? last time I checked its $20 and its optional.

Folder view isn't for newbies, 90% of PC users throw everything into the My Documents folder on their PC do they not? Most people have no concept of file management, so why start now?

If you've been a computer guy for as long as you claim you should know that you HAVE TO (its NOT A OPTION) be open to changes..you may not like it but if you resisted every change thats come along in the last 20 years you'd still be on DOS while everyone else is light years ahead.

If you don't like it fine your loss. I'm telling you if you were patient enough and didn't expect it to just work how you expected to work out of the box you'd realize that iTunes isn't so bad and iPods aren't as restrictive as you impulsively think. You need to chill out and adapt, take some effort to learn it instead of saying how restrictive and crappy it is when you CLEARLY haven't learned anything about iTunes.

[archurban]

My daughter just spent all her savings on a Touch. I was the one relegated to get her tunes on the machine, but
a) you are forced to use Itunes - the unit wont act as a drive
b) you have no folder view in Itunes
c) the IPOD icon desktop keeps coming up from new trying to SELL her a $30 upgrade
d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod
e) wifi required the unit to be reset before it worked
I am a computer user with 20 years experience who programs and works with PC. I have NEVER had the displeasure of using such an expensive toy that has very little flexibility of application or storage use.

It seems the Nano model has more to offer than this higher spec Touch.
My first Apple is definitely my last.
Cheers,
Al.

as you said, you have used PC for 20 years. you can't figure it out how to work? that doesn't make any sense. basically if you visit apple.com, you can get all information what you want.

a)it's true. what about zune? zune should also use only zune market place.

b)you can create folder in itunes during connection.

c)it's not $30 but $19.99.

d)let me ask you something. how is it possible? you can't even do that with other similar device. you need programs to covert. I am really doubt that you are sure to experience 20 years for PC use. I highly suspicious. I am also more than 15 years experience for mac & PC.

e)no I didn't do that. it just works within wifi area.

I think that you just use PC for your work, and am not interested in figuration of new stuff. that's why you asked people for helping even though they are all basic above.

[BigalGeorge]

Never mind guys if you cant accept that part of my core business is programmed in asm/c/delphi/C sharp and designed micro hardware then thats your problem, not mine. I have been trying to express comments which hopefully were constructive to the product.
Take care.
Al.

[paranoidxe]

Never mind guys if you cant accept that part of my core business is programmed in asm/c/delphi/C sharp and designed micro hardware then thats your problem, not mine. I have been trying to express comments which hopefully were constructive to the product.
Take care.
Al.

Thats alright I figured this was a troll topic anyway. Mods should close this.

[spot1701]

LOL I must of blinked and missed the "constructive" comments.
I suggest you get back under the bridge and get your daughter on the forums. Its always easier to help someone who wants to be helped and doesn't have an agenda.

[jaymereid]

My daughter just spent all her savings on a Touch. I was the one relegated to get her tunes on the machine, but
a) you are forced to use Itunes - the unit wont act as a drive
b) you have no folder view in Itunes
c) the IPOD icon desktop keeps coming up from new trying to SELL her a $30 upgrade
d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod
e) wifi required the unit to be reset before it worked
I am a computer user with 20 years experience who programs and works with PC. I have NEVER had the displeasure of using such an expensive toy that has very little flexibility of application or storage use.

It seems the Nano model has more to offer than this higher spec Touch.
My first Apple is definitely my last.
Cheers,
Al.

The nano does not even come close to the touch.Now the touch is not perfect but it is a amazing little device.

1)Has 10 real good applactions

Email
Itunes
Weather
Maps
Web Browser
Web Clips
Note Pad
Stocks
You Tube
Home Screen

2)With the itunes applaction you can download songs right away.With all other ipod you have to go to your computer buy the son and then sync it.

3)All ipods force you to use itunes.

3)The touch is all most the ultimate device.

[mc4]

Never mind guys if you cant accept that part of my core business is programmed in asm/c/delphi/C sharp and designed micro hardware then thats your problem, not mine. I have been trying to express comments which hopefully were constructive to the product.
Take care.
Al.
And this is why programmers should never attempt to be designers or voice opinions on the subject.

[cowboyshootist]

Never mind guys if you cant accept that part of my core business is programmed in asm/c/delphi/C sharp and designed micro hardware then thats your problem, not mine. I have been trying to express comments which hopefully were constructive to the product.
Take care.
Al.

It helps to be accurate when giving constructive criticism. Some of your statements were not accurate which raises the question of whether they were "constructive" or not.

[DerekVOF]

Sorry - there was nothing constructive in that criticism. Constructive criticism doesn't just say "This sucks" but says "Here are suggestions to make it BETTER"... Here - let's try one:

d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod becomes "It would be really nice if iTunes could automatically convert media on the fly - e.g., you drag songs directly from your CD, iTunes automatically rips them, tags them, and adds them to your iPod in one step!" See how easy that is? You're a programmer - you should know how to solve problems, not just create problems without solutions. If you can't, maybe it's time you went back to school for some re-education.

Anyways, ding dong the troll is dead... Onward and upward...

[daihard]

Never mind guys if you cant accept that part of my core business is programmed in asm/c/delphi/C sharp and designed micro hardware then thats your problem, not mine. I have been trying to express comments which hopefully were constructive to the product.
Take care.
And this is why programmers should never attempt to be designers or voice opinions on the subject.
Ouch! The OP is sure giving us programmers a bad name...

[BigalGeorge]

And this is why programmers should never attempt to be designers or voice opinions on the subject.
Yes you are absolutely correct. However my products are completely designed and programmed by self, hence I believe that the suggestions made (after getting over first frustrations) were valid to some degree. One of my products is a computer for farmers who need to have ease of use, and minimal learning curve.

A 'Troll' is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community - this is true, but also a Troll has the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response; I assure you that was not the intention; and I could have changed the OP subject to more reflect my intention - sorry.
Kind regards,
Al.

[jhollington]

As others in this thread have pointed out, the reality is that iTunes does have an adjustment curve for those who are used to doing things another way -- ie, those who are set in their ways, or are used to an Explorer-like interface.

To be honest, I was in that category myself about five years ago, until it occurred to me that I was spending more time managing my music collection than I was listening to it. That realization led me to go out and look for easier solutions for cataloguing and organizing my music that would be transparent and allow me to quickly organize and find things efficiently and basically "just work." After fiddling with Windows Media Player 6, MusicMatch, and a few applications that came bundled with Creative's players, I finally discovered iTunes for Windows and liked it so much that I went out and bought an iPod the next day.

It does require a certain adjustment to one's mind-set if you're a long-time computer user, but on the other hand, I've found that many people who are not computer experts pick up iTunes right away in terms of the basic logic that everything is organized and catalogued by metadata rather than a far less flexible file/folder structure (incidentally, I have dealt with many people in the corporate IT world who have gone through a similar adjustment when moving from a traditional file-system into a document management system -- the concept is pretty much the same).

Admittedly, iTunes has unfortunately become more bloated and problematic, particularly on the Windows platform, and there seems to be a slightly increasing commercial focus (although I still don't think it's so much that it gets in the way), but I've looked at all of the other products, and have yet to find anything else that I prefer to iTunes for managing my music library, even without an iPod.

For more information and a bit of insight into how iTunes handles these things and some of the options for different ways of managing your music, you or your daughter might want to check out our article, The Beginner's Guide to Filling your iPod (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/the-beginners-guide-to-filling-your-ipod/).

[mc4]

Yes you are absolutely correct. However my products are completely designed and programmed by self

Your programs design themselves? That's pretty impressive. Let's hope that the documentation writes itself too.

hence I believe that the suggestions made (after getting over first frustrations) were valid to some degree. One of my products is a computer for farmers who need to have ease of use, and minimal learning curve.

It's not like a dairy farmer probably knows enough about design to say your design stinks.

What you're asking for are things that don't exist, for good reasons. DVDs cannot be dragged and dropped onto a media player because it is protected media. Copying that media is a violation of the DMCA (a binding copyright act). Additionally, Apple would have to licence codecs to play the format, which would increase their overhead and the price for the devices. By having users covert the media themselves, Apple sidesteps this law. Blame the jerks that voted this into law.

CDs use an audio format that are fine for CDs but quite unless for media players. If you're only getting 20 CDs on a media player, that's not very efficient. Itunes makes life easier by using compressed formats that balance sound quality against file size. All you have to do is insert a CD and click one button. That's difficult? Once you've converted the files you can choice to manually manage the iPod music, dragging and dropping music in an explorer like interface. Again, this is difficult?

[BigalGeorge]

Cheers for the feedback jhollington. I can identify with that.
Al.

[BigalGeorge]

Your programs design themselves? That's pretty impressive. Let's hope that the documentation writes itself too.
It's not like a dairy farmer probably knows enough about design to say your design stinks.

Self meaning myself of course. Documentation is not my strong point, and you are correct - the design has to be very simple in its interface otherwise I would get many support requests for the thousands of product sold.
Cheers,
Al.

[BigalGeorge]

Ok today my daughter wanted some CDs imported here goes our experience on a totally reliable PC using WinXP and running Itunes here are some of the experiences:

1..Diagnostic request messagebox asks to send request - decline and check 'do not ask again' still asks each start of program - this is a no no for programming you NEVER repeat a request if the user has checked 'do not ask again'.
2..Offer for upgrade - yes I have finally reached a [no thank you] button, and each time it still asks; as above in (1).
3..In Itunes mainform devices keep dropping out eg I have 2 CD/DVD players one keeps dropping in and out even though every other program on my computer does not have this problem Itunes does. This is when the CD has not been opened and previously shows the track list on Itunes mainform.
4..because of the above when a CD is being imported the CD gets partially imported then the jolly CD disappears off the device list and the import is incomplete.
5..next the same CD magically re-appears with the track list and an offer to replace the files which I do not want to, so it redoes the import, but renames. Desired function is to skip the files that have already been imported and any program with a minimum amount of ability would detect that the tracks on the CD are the same as those already imported (by decompression algorithm), and simply skip those or otherwise ask if they should be replaced or skipped.
6..Eject/Load CD does not reliably show the device in the device list as in 3 above.

Given the response I have so far had on this forum many of you will suggest that this is a PC issue only but I reiterate I have a very good machine used for development purposes and it has proven most reliable until this Apple bloated 57Mb software.

Perhaps there are fixes for the software in the latest $20 upgrade but why the heck should we have to pay for it? :o
Al+
PS there seems to be no email support for Apple products is this correct?

[bobbit]

Well most of it seems to be your computer and developer environments do tend to screw over specific programs, I know that from experience.

You seem to not be able to bare responsibilty for something that's highly likely to be your/your computer's fault. iTunes isn't perfect but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

As has been said, Apple has comprehensive knowledge base articles that will very likely help your problems.

[spot1701]

I wonder what a "totally reliable PC using XP" is? I don't think I've ever heard of one of those ;)
Hardware issues galore! C'mon Apple, you should be able to cope with any hardware configuration, no matter how flaky ;)

As a programmer, presumably used to diagnosing problems, it wouldn't of taken much searching to realise that this isn't a common problem. So I would then start looking at my configuration? What other programs am I running that could be clashing? Virus checkers..firewalls etc?
I have drive problems, do I run other programs that could affect those? Burning software etc?
Are the drives faulty? Can I rip and burn music using other methods, media player etc?
I boot my machine cleanly without other software running, does it still happen?
Is my OS up to date? Is my iTunes uptodate? Are my drivers up to date?

A re-install of Windows is always good. I do it about every 6 months to keep things fresh. iTunes may of just highlighted a problem, so it wouldn't do any harm. And, as you know, it doesn't take long.

But, hasn't your daughter got a computer? Trying it on another machine would be the easiest way? And this would instantly highlight that the issue is with your machine.

I do wonder if there IS a "daugher"? There's no shame in admitting you don't know how to do something, or asking for help. But it's always better if you don't start with:

"Your program is crap, because it doesn't work how I think it should work.... please help?"

[jhollington]

In my own experience, most (not all) of the problems with iTunes on Windows have to do with conflicting drivers, conflicting software, or odd configurations.

Not that this is an excuse... As the above poster points out, Apple should probably put some more effort into QA... while it's impossible for them to test every possible configuration, the number of problems we've seen reported, particularly in the iTunes 7.x generation, would indicate that the testing cycle is falling short of where it should be.

The reason iTunes tends to run with more stability on the Mac is really only because you're dealing with a generally known configuration and less driver and software "cruft" than tends to creep in on Windows machines. I don't think the Mac vs Windows versions of iTunes are inherently different -- just that iTunes on Windows has many more variables to deal with (and it's obviously not doing a very good job of dealing with them :) ).

FYI, the $20 "upgrade" is only for the iPod touch itself, and it's to add five new applications. It's not supposed to fix any bugs, per se, and in fact the v1.1.3 is available at no additional charge. The $20 is just to get five new applications, and a couple of new operating system features. The debate rages on about whether Apple should be charging for this, but it's important to understand that they are not charging for bug fixes or routine patches, but rather new functionality.

[Puffnstuff]

why are you guys feeding the troll?:confused:

[kornchild2002]

PS there seems to be no email support for Apple products is this correct?

There is not a direct e-mail but you can go through tech support, that sends out an e-mail using Apple's system and they do get back to you. iPods come with 90 days of online support (30 days of phone support) and a 1 year parts and labor warranty.

I do understand that you are having these issues. However it sounds as if your machine/setup is not what it should be. Keep in mind that there are many users who have absolutely no issues at all with their iPods or with iTunes. So it is bad to assume things when your problems seem to represent the extreme minority. Also keep in mind that these forums are here to help people. Most of the problems don't even deal with iTunes or the iPod itself so don't use these forums as an overall judge of the quality of iTunes or the iPod as each experience is different.

Lastly, we get your point. I don't think there is a need to keep on going on with these negative comments. At this stage it seems almost as if these negative comments are forced or just something you read about on the internet. I know a few people with bad luck but even they aren't this down and out when it comes to their iPods. It sounds more like you are having hardware issues and that your "daughter's" system needs to be reformatted. You have yet to mention how old her computer is, how warn the optical drive is, and so on. I have a computer with a bad DVD burner and it does the same thing with iTunes. Do I blame iTunes? Not at all because I know the DVD burner is physically damaged.

[BigalGeorge]

In my own experience, most (not all) of the problems with iTunes on Windows have to do with conflicting drivers, conflicting software, or odd configurations.

FYI, the $20 "upgrade" is only for the iPod touch itself, and it's to add five new applications. It's not supposed to fix any bugs, per se, and in fact the v1.1.3 is available at no additional charge. The $20 is just to get five new applications, and a couple of new operating system features. The debate rages on about whether Apple should be charging for this, but it's important to understand that they are not charging for bug fixes or routine patches, but rather new functionality.

OK tks for that. I had realised that Itunes may not like my particular PC, but it should be more forgiving; one of my products is backup software which polls the CD/R and of course, has a lot going on with external device I/O. As a developer, I can determine quite easily by software break points etc if there is anything at all wrong with my hardware.
I'm loath to install this bloated program on another PC, but may have to unfortunately. However I'll try using a single drive instead of two first, as it may be that Itunes gets confused when 2 CD are loaded with music CD.

Re the "upgrade" I had suspected that Itunes may have had a OEM and a full version, which was part of this deal. But not so, in any case, I'd installed the latest version Itunes as it basically forces you to anyways :o
Re the messagebox/advertising problems - what I suspect is that Itunes may rely on its setting being stored on an Apple network somewhere? If so, it may be that my router is not letting the desired ports to be open. This may be the reason as normally a programmer either writes a 'do not ask again' to the registry or some form of setup file eg INI.

'Spots' suggestion to reinstall Windoz - I wont even go there.

Kind regards,
Al.

[BigalGeorge]

I have a computer with a bad DVD burner and it does the same thing with iTunes. Do I blame iTunes? Not at all because I know the DVD burner is physically damaged.
Good idea - this may be the issue; although both drives work well, it may be that Itunes is more picky than other programs. I could tell by disconnecting one or the other which will do next time I try and use the program.

Will advise on the forum what actually worked at some stage.

I ensure to keep drivers up to date.
Thanks.
Al.

[mc4]

Sounds like a driver issue or an issue with the drive itself. I run itunes on a machine with two cd-roms and no issues.

[BigalGeorge]

Contact Apple support by phone:
'Hi my name is Wade, how can I help'
advised the various points of problems above, saying that I had an issue with Itunes - took about 5 minutes
Oh, sorry, this is an Ipod issue, I will transfer you to Ipod now
(Some minutes later)
Hi my name is Rajid (from India) how may I help you
Said I had an issue with Itunes, and advised all again, he did not interrupt
Sorry, that is an Itunes issue, I will transfer you now.....

Gave up after 10 minutes of listening to 'we hope you continue to enjoy this selection of music we are playing you from the Itunes store'

Apple do not have an email support address so I guess its bad luck buddy, sort it out yourself.

[thedodgyguy]

What I notice with "I'm an IT expert" types is that they never actually listen to other people who they call to get help. What I've also noticed with "I'm an IT expert" types who write posts in the manner of "I'm an IT expert" is that they've been support flunkeys who either moved onto management positions and have become even bigger pains in the butt, or have remained low-level techs / "hobbyist" developers for their entire careers.


I'm not an IT expert. I'm a product design expert (who doesn't feel the need to write "I'm a product design expert" when I'm writing about problems with Autodesk support for example) among other things who happens to be an IT God :p, mainly through owning and self troubleshooting equipment that many corporate IT types don't even get to touch. However when I call Dell, HP or anyone like that, I talk through the problem solving procedure no matter how obvious it seems to me. It doesn't take that long and if it fails, I can get my problems sorted out after that fairly quickly. Trying to bypass it yourself by being a smartarse does not really work. This works for anything when you're not talking to a product expert yourself, but are talking to someone who is working through a structured list for problem resolution.


I mean who knows, it could be your "I'm an IT expert" set-up PC that's b0rked. iTunes always works fine (and it's not that I love iTunes that much - you can do better, although I suspect you haven't even tried to adapt to try working the way iTunes does) on all of my PC's - I've never seen a homebuilt PC where the owner is complaining about incompatibilities with commonly available software that is built or installed quite right.


If it's not working for you, you're not the one to tell the support people what you think the solution should be. As far as software goes, it's neither flaky nor hard to install on a properly functioning PC. In fact, while some may dislike it, it happens to be one of the most tested and proven pieces of media software on this planet. I would make sure there is nothing resident on the PC that could impede the working of iTunes - start by a process of elimination.


And when you call up support again, I would suggest you don't tell them what you think the problem is. I would suggest that you tell them the exact symptoms of the issue that you're experiencing without any added expertise of your own, and start from there.

[BigalGeorge]

And when you call up support again, I would suggest you don't tell them what you think the problem is. I would suggest that you tell them the exact symptoms of the issue that you're experiencing without any added expertise of your own, and start from there.
I have to support my clients so over several years of this I fully understand where you are coming from. But surely you have been patronised by non-skilled support staff? I only indicate my skill level to help circumvent patronising questions which can take several minutes. It usually helps a lot; but maybe not for you!
Cheers,
Alistair.

[bobbit]

I have to support my clients so over several years of this I fully understand where you are coming from. But surely you have been patronised by non-skilled support staff? I only indicate my skill level to help circumvent patronising questions which can take several minutes. It usually helps a lot; but maybe not for you!
Cheers,
Alistair.

You know, half the 'simple patronising' things tend to fix it. From everything else you've said, your problems sound incredibly simple and if you put your ego aside for one moment you might find your problems will be resolved.

[archurban]

well, those of your original questions are not needed to be expert answers. because all of them are so basic stuff which you should know about them if you deal with certain device. I thought you would be familiar with those kind of things. but you don't? well, that's still weird to me.

[Wilder_K_Wight]

Contact Apple support by phone:
'Hi my name is Wade, how can I help'
advised the various points of problems above, saying that I had an issue with Itunes - took about 5 minutes
Oh, sorry, this is an Ipod issue, I will transfer you to Ipod now
(Some minutes later)
Hi my name is Rajid (from India) how may I help you

OK, and here's where I call B.S.-- Apple does NOT outsource their telephone support. If you're in America and you're calling Apple Support, you're going to get someone in California.

And Apple does have email support. Go to Apple.com/support and then click "CONTACT SUPPORT" in the left-hand side.

I'm sorry, man. Most of your problems are why I stopped building PCs and switched to Mac in 2004. I got sick of hardware incompatibilities, IRQ problems, and general Windows stupidity.

On my Mac, the process for importing a CD is as follows (and it's always flawless):

1. Insert CD into slot.
2. Wait for iTunes to open, find CD artist/title online, and then ask me "Do you want to import this CD?"
3. Click "Yes."
4. Wait a few minutes.
5. CD ejects automatically when it's done. iTunes stores tracks in the proper folder (directory) and arranges them in the iTunes database automatically, finally obtaining album art from the Internet automatically.

Final step with iPod:

6. Insert iPod into dock. Wait a minute. Remove iPod from dock. CD is now on iPod.

I don't know how much easier it could be. Perhaps you prefer the Media Jukebox way:

1. Insert CD.
2. Double-click Media Jukebox icon.
3. Find CD on Explorer-style menu and click it.
4. Wait for CD to open in menu.
5. Make new directory for Artist/Album manually.
6. Shift-click to select all the music tracks on the CD.
7. Drag music tracks into Artist/Album directory.
8. Wait for ripping to finish.
9. Press eject button on disc tray (Ha Ha. A tray! How 20th century!)
10. Highlight CD tracks in Artist/Album folder and request CDDB information.
11. Wait for CDDB to give you completely wrong tag information.
12. Correct CDDB's erroneous information manually.

And then connecting your DOS-based MP3 player:

13. Connect USB cable.
14. Find player in Explorer-style menu.
15. Open player, open music sub-directory.
16. Drag and drop all the music from the PC directory into the MP3 player's directory, as if it were an old-fashioned hard drive. Wait for transfer.
17. Eject MP3 player. Unplug USB cable.

I know. I'm one of those people who paid for a full version of Media Jukebox/Media Center back when I was rocking the Creative Labs MP3 players (all of which were primitive junk compared to the iPod).

I much prefer iTunes. If you prefer to old fashioned method that treats your media player like it's a hard drive that happens to play music, then more power to you. I might have a Creative MuVo or Diamond Rio 600 laying around somewhere for you.

[irockanipod]

Clear instructions to using the ipod:
* http://www.apple.com/support/ipod

[BigalGeorge]

OK, and here's where I call B.S.-- Apple does NOT outsource their telephone support. If you're in America and you're calling Apple Support, you're going to get someone in California. And Apple does have email support. Go to Apple.com/support and then click "CONTACT SUPPORT" in the left-hand side.
Maybe I'm wrong but also its possible its changed since you tried last because I end up:
http://www.apple.com/support/contact/
and from there there is no apparent email contact, just a mention of:
Email

Email support is available for iTunes Store and .Mac questions.

* iTunes Store: Get email support for downloads, purchases, and more.
* .Mac: Get email support for billing and account questions, .Mac Mail, and more.

Thanks.
Al.

[spot1701]

I'm loath to install this bloated program on another PC, but may have to unfortunately.
But the first thing you do is install it on your DEVELOPMENT machine??
"I have a machine that is critical for my work, so I'm going to install some silly music software on it so my 'daughter' can listen to her music on her toy that SHE bought"

It's a shame you didn't do that to start with then we might of been able to stop this farce before it began.
'Spots' suggestion to reinstall Windoz - I wont even go there.
I am forced to wonder if you would even know how.
This whole thing smacks of someone who's read too many What PC magazines, or has helped their neighbour plug in their router and therefore thinks there are an expert on all things computers.
Your problem is you and your machine and your setup (in that order). Calling all the Apple support in the world isn't going to fix any of that.

[surfnc25]

My daughter just spent all her savings on a Touch. I was the one relegated to get her tunes on the machine, but
a) you are forced to use Itunes - the unit wont act as a drive
b) you have no folder view in Itunes
c) the IPOD icon desktop keeps coming up from new trying to SELL her a $30 upgrade
d) you cannot drag and drop from cd/dvd to ipod
e) wifi required the unit to be reset before it worked
I am a computer user with 20 years experience who programs and works with PC. I have NEVER had the displeasure of using such an expensive toy that has very little flexibility of application or storage use.

It seems the Nano model has more to offer than this higher spec Touch.
My first Apple is definitely my last.
Cheers,
Al.

dude it sounds like you just got a bad touch so I don't think you should be totally against the touch all together. I think it is brilliant for apple to only allow you to you itunes with the ipod just like Microsoft does with the Zune and Marketplace. All you have do is convert your music to itunes format whats the big deal. Maybe your best best is go with a Sanyo or something along those lines. I agree that itunes is not the most user friendly or the best piece of software to use but if you want a ipod you have to suffer the consequences I guess. Good luck with your new device.

[baggss]

This is a GREAT thread. I love trolls with egos. Did anyone else notice the part where he alluded to the fact that his 15 year old daughter is in college? I suspect the Apple may not have fallen far from the tree here, no pun intended.

[BigalGeorge]

This is a GREAT thread. I love trolls with egos. Did anyone else notice the part where he alluded to the fact that his 15 year old daughter is in college? I suspect the Apple may not have fallen far from the tree here, no pun intended.
Stoopid Ameican Rednek/Baggss are you so conceited that you assume your countries rules apply to every other country - of course we have college but its ages and qualifications apply in a different manner. and I have 3 daughters who age from 6 to 15 and love them heaps. Crikey, you can't even spell American!

Rock 'n' Roll Doggie/Spot did you ever learn about Windows 'System Restore'? well this is what you use before you take on board a new program. Afterwards if things go wrong it can revert back to the same state as before. I'm assuming you are an Apple user, but if not, then your own abilities speak for themselves :shake:

APPLE'S SOLUTION TO THE ITUNES PROBLEM
Yesterday I found the following Apple fault report on missing CD drives quote: 'Some computers need an update to the ATA or IDE bus driver, or Intel chipset. If iTunes has problems recognizing CDs or hanging or crashing while importing or burning CDs, check the support site for the manufacturer of your computer or motherboard.'

So Apple recognises that Itunes has a problem under Windoz, but they put it back on the PC owner. That is not satisfactory at all; the suggestion is not a fix because the same PCs are reported by others including myself to work without problems using other CD player software. Apple also suggest 'not to share same players on same ide leads'. Unlike what Apple suggests, this is normal PC configuration; hard drives share, and usually CD's share.
Quite often support teams suggest you reinstall Windows, or get a new driver, or change the hardware. Eventually, when they get enough folks reporting the problem they actually fix the software.
Al.

[mc4]

No one can be this stupid, right? I mean this guy has to be kidding, right?

[thedodgyguy]

He ain't stupid, just old :p

(says the not-so-spring-chicken-himself)

[kornchild2002]

Stoopid Ameican Rednek/Baggss are you so conceited that you assume your countries rules apply to every other country - of course we have college but its ages and qualifications apply in a different manner. and I have 3 daughters who age from 6 to 15 and love them heaps. Crikey, you can't even spell American!

I hate to say this but you commented on someone's spelling and yet I count 4 grammar errors and 2 spelling errors (one was intentional but if you are going to knock Baggss for his intentional spelling of American then I am going to knock you for your intentional spelling of Windows). I know I am not the perfect speller or have the up most correct grammar but you need to be aware that not everyone is perfect. You criticize someone for not being perfect and now I am doing it to you.

This thread has turned ugly. In your defense Apple actually outsources their tech support. I have contacted their iPod tech support many times and get connected to someone in India. Believe me, I can recognize their accent as I had an issue with Dell about 2 years ago which required me to contact them multiple times. I think Apple's computer based tech support is located in the U.S. but their iPod tech support isn't.

However, it seems that most of your problems come from your custom built computer. I built my own computer back in 2002 and sold it due to motherboard issues. You have to remember that motherboards purchased by end-users have high failure rates. It took me 4 tries before I finally found a working motherboard and even then it wasn't perfect. I have a total of 6 computers, 5 of which run iTunes without any issues. I have three main computers that all run iTunes without any major glitches such as the ones you keep in describing. I do think that you have some drivers issues and what could possibly be firmware issues with your optical drives as well. I am just surprised that an educated person can't realize that the problem is with something they built rather than something that Apple made.

[baggss]

I hate to say this but you commented on someone's spelling and yet I count 4 grammar errors and 2 spelling errors (one was intentional but if you are going to knock Baggss for his intentional spelling of American then I am going to knock you for your intentional spelling of Windows). I know I am not the perfect speller or have the up most correct grammar but you need to be aware that not everyone is perfect. You criticize someone for not being perfect and now I am doing it to you.

The real joke is that he didn't get that my user title is as it is on purpose. Since he's not bright enough to tell us where he is from in his profile we must all be psychics to know he's not in the US. Based on his silly response, I think we all now know. I love it when peoples national inferiority complexes rear their heads.

On a side note, I think we can tell why he doesn't like iTunes:

http://www.alistairgeorge.com/

It's not complicated enough.

I am just surprised that an educated person can't realize that the problem is with something they built rather than something that Apple made.

Come on, does it really surprise you?

[archurban]

I don't know whether it is typical reaction or not. comparing to another similar forum, why are ilounge forum users care about grammar so much? because most of them here are teens or college kids? come on. get over it.

when you concern about it, it would be class or preparation for thesis, degree paper, or some paper work in company. yeah, I hate grammar because I got it through my college, and graduate school.

I think that we have to end this thread, move on.

[BigalGeorge]

I know I am not the perfect speller or have the up most correct grammar but you need to be aware that not everyone is perfect. You criticize someone for not being perfect and now I am doing it to you.

This thread has turned ugly.

Actually, I agree the thread has turned ugly so I am out of here.

Maybe Apple will come out with a fix at some stage in the future for this hardware incompatibility that some are suggesting is my equipment, but is being reported by others.
Cheers and thanks again to the many that tried to help and made intelligent suggestions.
Al.

[spot1701]

Head...brickwall....thankyou and goodnight.
What an idiot, but without sounding too much like Arnie: I think He'll Be Back. Bwaaahaaa

[baggss]

I think that we have to end this thread, move on.

It's not over until the fat admin sings, or in this case closes the thread!

(not that I'm calling any of the staff fat...)

[yinyang]

So Apple recognises that Itunes has a problem under Windoz, but they put it back on the PC owner. That is not satisfactory at all; the suggestion is not a fix because the same PCs are reported by others including myself to work without problems using other CD player software. Apple also suggest 'not to share same players on same ide leads'. Unlike what Apple suggests, this is normal PC configuration; hard drives share, and usually CD's share.
Quite often support teams suggest you reinstall Windows, or get a new driver, or change the hardware. Eventually, when they get enough folks reporting the problem they actually fix the software.
Al.

because windows is supposed to support so many types of devices from some many different manufacturers (each with their own driver development teams) the permutations of machine configuration are too numerous to be able to test iTunes across all of them. All Apple can do is try and test on the most common config, though I'd like to know exactly what their Wintel PC machines are ;)

i'd suggest trying with another PC, if you have one, or at least one that is not used for your work - I find that devels tend to put all sorts of apps on their machines to help with their work which may not be that useful for non-tech usage.

[MicroByte]

I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now, and my initial reaction was much like everyone else's. I admit, I love my touch (really <3 it!) and am really glad that everything just worked.

From my experience, there are just some products that never work for everyone else in the world except for me, that's frustrating. In all honestly though, it's a shame that things aren't working for you.

Aside from your technical frustrations, I think the other points you mention ate a matter of
design. Remember, Apple has to support the PC and Mac which are 2 very different OS's. Itunes seems like an appropriate "wrapper", creating a common interface with the iPod hardware.

As a software developer myself, I know it's impossible to satisfy everyone all of the time. However, I have owned many other mp3 players, and iTunes is much more intuitive and provides great functionality (when working right).

Its a shame that you are having problems, I sympathize. Hopefully you resolve your issues, for your daughters sake. :)

Good luck!

[melsmusic]

It sounds more like you are having hardware issues and that your "daughter's" system needs to be reformatted. You have yet to mention how old her computer is, how warn the optical drive is, and so on. I have a computer with a bad DVD burner and it does the same thing with iTunes. Do I blame iTunes? Not at all because I know the DVD burner is physically damaged.

Can I just skip reading the entire thread and ask you Kornchild, what does your DVD burner do? I want to see if my DVD/CD drive is faulty.

I'm having an issue with some CDs, not all, and it seems to be when my notebook is hot. Sometimes they just don't want to rip, and I can hear the CD spinning up, stopping, then attempting to spin again, but not importing all songs. I might get say half the CD ripped. Sometimes if I wait and let it cool down, it will then rip the entire CD, but sometimes it won't. I just wanted to know whether to take the notebook in for warranty, which runs out in the next few weeks. Just to make it more clear, I probably have issues with 1/10 CDs, most of which may not be in the greatest condition. They do rip on my other PC, but my notebook is a mobile notebook with a thin optical drive, and my PC is a Lite-On, so it might be quite normal for what I'm experiencing with dodgy (sorry dodgy, not you!!) CDs more so a faulty drive. It's not an itunes issue as I mentioned, 9/10 rip without an issue unless I rip them all in a row.

It's off topic, but I think we can assume this thread has pretty well run it's course. It may as well help me with something, :p

[jhollington]

It's not over until the fat admin sings, or in this case closes the thread!
Well, I'm certainly not going to sing, but I was about the close the thread.

However, since it may be taking a productive bent (and Mel is a lot better looking than baggss, IMHO), we'll let it go down the boulevard of broken DVDs instead.... ;)

[melsmusic]

I'm a girl - just in case anyone is wondering about Jesse. :D

[kornchild2002]

The problem with my DVD burner is that it has trouble ripping certain CDs even though they are brand new. Take Atreyu's Lead Sails Paper Anchor album that was released not too long ago at all. I purchased it at Best Buy, took it home, popped it in my desktop for CD ripping, and dbpoweramp (an accurate CD ripper) reported all sorts of errors and just gave up ripping after the third song. I tried EAC and it pretty much did the same thing. Opened up iTunes and my DVD burner makes a strange noise (it made the same noise with the other programs) and it takes iTunes 15 minutes to rip the first track.

I take the CD out, pop it into my notebook's DVD burner, and it takes about 7 minutes to accurately rip it using dbpoweramp to Apple lossless. So that is the issue with my desktop's optical drive. I find that my tablet PC's CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive works for the most part. It has an issue with Adema's self-titled first release. It simply won't rip two tracks near the end. My desktop performs the same way with that CD but my notebook can accurately rip it. I guess it is just the way the CDs were pressed or something but that is the issue with my desktop's drive. On a side note, I must have used my desktop's DVD burner to re-rip my audio CDs over a dozen times before finally getting a external hard drive and going lossless. That and I purchased the DVD burner back in about 2003 and the whole novelty of copying movies was new. So I would make weekly trips to Blockbuster getting about 4 movies each trip and I did this for the period of 5 months. I think I spent about $100 all-in-all but the value of the movies I "rented" was about $12,000. So my DVD burner has had quite a workout over the past 5 years. It is probably time for a new one but I would rather just wait and get a new desktop computer.

[baggss]

(and Mel is a lot better looking than baggss, IMHO)

I'm deeply hurt....;)

[archurban]

I'm a girl - just in case anyone is wondering about Jesse. :D


why? what's wrong?:D

[DerekVOF]

Since I work in the QA industry, I thought I'd point something out just for reference -

Right now, Dell has currently about 20 models of platforms available just for the home & home office space. That doesn't include all the configurations of memory, processor, hard drive, wireless, etc. that you can have. If you want to include the last 3 years, you'd be looking at maybe 50 models at least. And remember - this isn't include business or enterprise platforms.

Figure at a minimum it support Windows XP & Vista. Oh, and don't forget that there are all those versions of both XP & Vista (XP Home, XP Professional, Vista Business, Vista Home, Vista Ultimate, etc.). And don't forget the service packs for Windows. Now those 50 models we've got listed above need to be tested in a MINIMUM of 2 configurations each (assuming that we use different service packs and versions on each model, so even then we're not talking 100% coverage) -- we're at 100 tests now.

Now, don't forget - that's just Dell. Throw in at a minimum Acer, IBM/Lenovo, HP, Sony, eMachines, and Gateway. Assume they've about as many models. So, that 100 tests is now 700 tests. And that's not even including all the smaller manufacturers, manufacturers popular offshore (like Fujitsu, etc.), BYO, etc.

What about all the other software on the computer? In particular, applications that effect communications like antivirus, firewalls, antispyware. These cause problems as well. What about after-market peripherals like external hard drives, graphics adapters, sound cards, etc.? Drivers can cause issues as well...

So, figure if Apple wanted just DECENT test coverage, they'd be looking to test over 1,000 configurations with each release. Throw in tight budgets and short schedules into the mix, and you can see that it's all but impossible to make sure the software works on every platform in the market...

Next time someone complains and says "Why doesn't this product work with my computer?", now you know... Same reason Apple probably doesn't want to release OS X for everyone else's PCs -- the quality assurance would swamp them and burn up any sort of profit that might make from it's sale...