I think less of Apple now

[netean]

My ipod touch was not only my first ever Ipod, it was my first venture in apple in general.
I've been getting more and more fed up with windows and have been looking longingly at Macs and OSX for a while now.

I bought my 16gb touch on Xmas eve and really loved it. Strangely the bits that I was a bit disappointed by was the music player, which lacks functionality I've found on other (and considerably cheaper players).

I was falling in love with apple: The menus, the rounded boxes the "feel" of it.

This week that's all changed. The $20 fee for new firmware has really made me question Apple as a company. I've had firmware updates before that give new functionality - and they'be been free. But this just seem greedy and It's really clouded my opinion of Apple as a company.

I REALLY hate to say this, but this makes Apple look greedy, look like they don't care about their customers, makes them seem complacent and rude.

It also makes Microsoft not look quite so bad, oddly I find myself disliking M$ a lot less and disliking Apple a lot more.

Sad how something so small as an extra $20 fee (on top of the $500 I paid for my iTouch!) can change how I see a whole company. But it's made me think twice about buying a mac. ACtually it's stopped me even thinking about buying one.

Shame

[Redbirdpat]

Yep. I totally agree. I got my first ipod when it first came out and raved about it to all my friends. Gave Apple free advertising. My Touch is the 4th ipod that I bought.

The thing that ticks me off the most is that they are only charging early adopters. If they charged ALL Touch owners for the apps, that would be different. Still not great, but it would be easier for them to defend (if you want them as standard issue, buy the iPhone). But that's not what they did. They decided to just target the early adopters. It's not like there is a new Touch that is different than the one I have. It is exactly the same.

So like you, I don't view apple the same way anymore. I have never bought an apple computer before, mostly because of the expense. I have owned PCs for over 25 years. I have used apple computers many times, and do like them. I was actually considering buying my first one. But no longer. It may be "only" $20, but it is really offensive to me. I not only will not buy an apple computer, but will never be an early adopter for any apple product ever again. And for the first time, I will consider getting a non-apple device next time I upgrade.

[Dumb Monkey]

You guys fail to see that it isn't about targeting early adopters, it's about increasing the value of the product to increase sales going forward. ALL companies do this, either by dropping the price at some point or offering accessories for no extra cost, etc. Early adopters will ALWAYS pay a premium, it's the nature of the game. Without them, the prices never drop in the first place.

Either way, this is a drop in the bucket compared to the $200 price cut to iphone users. And remember, the iphone purchasers paid a premium for those apps, some simply because they weren't included on the Touch at the time.

Lastly, do we really need a half dozen threads complaining about the same thing? Post in one of the existing ones.

[AlanJC]

This really is getting silly, all I see on every single forum and blog is people moaning about this $20 fee.

For starters, the firmware update to 1.1.3 is free of charge, they are simply charging you for the software pack.

You knew what software was on your touch when you bought it, why would you assume you would be entitled to free software when you didn't even know Apple would release it?

A good analogy would be this...

You buy a car, standard wheels, cassette player, and key operated central locking. A few months later, to boost sales, the manufacturer adds alloy wheels, a cd player, and remote central locking.

Would you be entitled to the extras for free?

No, but you are still entitled to the maintenance, and the ability to buy the upgrades if you want them.

That's exactly what Apple have done.

Sure, it sucks for people that bought it only recently, but as with anything you buy, at some point, someone will gt stung by price drops, or new product releases, but hey, that's life, get over it.

[bobb-mini]

Comeon Monkey, but *of course* it's good for business, but these guys couldn't care less 'coz they are probly not shareholders but merely consumers.

Apple of course is not *purposely* targetting the early adopters, but Early Adopter do take additional risks. This goes for ALL products, ANY company. THAT'S THE PRICE ONE PAYS. Wanna be the first in the block to show off your new toy, deal with the potential consequences.

To OP and 2nd post... even if u look for another brand, you will ALWAYS WONDER what you are missing on the next iPod. Resistance to Apple is futile ;)

[netean]

For starters, the firmware update to 1.1.3 is free of charge, they are simply charging you for the software pack.

Not true.

Lyrics support is turned off in the free version.
Home page configuration is turned off in the free version

If it was just about the apps I wouldn't be that bothered. other than mail I don't have any use fot the other apps. It's about charging people when they've just spent £270 ($500) on the country's most expensive mp3 player, to then charge them for what is effectively a firmware update/path/service pack.

Even microsoft give patches and service packs away for free, and service packs usually feature major enhancements and updated or new application.... and they're microsoft for feck's sake!

its the fact they're charging me for, something that amounts to virtually nothing (the apps were already on the iphone, they weren't specifcally creatd for the iTouch)

Point in fact, I own a Nokia N95 (bought sim free), I get regular updates, including a major one just before Christmas, that gave me significantly improved functionality, new apps, major bug fixes etc. What was the charge... nothing. totally free. (they even give away many of their new apps for free also)

[netean]

You buy a car, standard wheels, cassette player, and key operated central locking. A few months later, to boost sales, the manufacturer adds alloy wheels, a cd player, and remote central locking.

Would you be entitled to the extras for free?

better analogy is my Car's sat nav: Gets regular updates to the mapping software free for 5 years (the time I have the purchase agreement for).
I've also download FREE firmware updates (from the sat nav manufacturers), that add functionality, reduce bugs and improve the user Interface.

Also, using your car analogy: The manufacturer might release a new cd player, or new alloy wheels or new decals. But these are things I can buy anywhere else for my car - the Ipod is locked so I couldn't get my apps/firmware updates anywhere else.

[Shufflexx]

besides, the ipod touch isnt a cheap item, they dont need to charge us 20 bucks for a copuye of new apps and FIRMWARE upgrades, we dealt with the bugs anyway right?

they need to change this now

[AlanJC]

they dont need to charge us 20 bucks for a copuye of new apps and FIRMWARE upgrades, we dealt with the bugs anyway right?

They are not charging you for the firmware update, 1.1.3 is free, they are only charging you if you want the 5 applications.

I am sure in Feb, when the SDK is out, people will have lots of choice in the software you can buy, really, this isn't that big a deal.

[thatsmyaibo]

Keep voicing your opinions. It's a privilege here because I was banned from the Apple forums for speak out against this update.

[AlanJC]

OMG, why do people keep thinking they are being charged for an update?

The 1.1.3 update is totally 100% free, they are charging $20 for the software pack.

Why should you get something for free that you knew your device did not have when you purchased it?

[dragontit]

Apple was all about greed when they notice their iPods brought them back to life.

Why do you think they make the back of almost every iPod model so easily scratch. So they can make more $ from other companies selling cases.

I'm not surprised by the $20 charge. I knew it was coming. I'm jailbreaking my Touch until Apple sort all this out. This is my first iPod. Will it be my last?

[vertago]

I've a psp and ps3 both have regular fw upgrade's which aren't charged if they were there would be war.

[EmeraldICE898]

OMG, why do people keep thinking they are being charged for an update?

The 1.1.3 update is totally 100% free, they are charging $20 for the software pack.

Why should you get something for free that you knew your device did not have when you purchased it?

For me it's not just the fact that they are charging for it. It's the fact that they are charging so damn much for it. Twenty dollars for five simple programs where all they had to do is just copy the code from the iPhone and paste it over to the Touch.

[ipodvideouser01]

OMG, why do people keep thinking they are being charged for an update?

The 1.1.3 update is totally 100% free, they are charging $20 for the software pack.

Why should you get something for free that you knew your device did not have when you purchased it?

Because it has been common practice for Apple to include updated features as well as bug fixes with their incremental updates. The $20 fee is not only for the "software pack" but also for the added features free in the iPhone update. These include added lyrics support, webclips, and home re-arranging.

Please inform yourself prior to posting nonsensical information. As others have mentioned previously, if the charge was simply for the "new" applications, the pill would be a little less hard to swallow. But as it happens, Apple is setting a bad precedent with the 1.1.3 software "upgrade" pack.

One example, the 5th Gen iPods received incremental updates that not only added brightness control, but also added pop-up letter during scrolling and the ability to play third-party video games. These are significant features which added to the overall product. And they received such updates after a new iPod line was announced. It makes this 1.1.3 debacle that much worse that precedent was broken only to prey on early adopters.

[Sparkee]

Even though I don't like the $20 charge for the upgrade it does make the touch much more useful for me and I don't feel like playing around with jailbreaking it. I payed the $20 and I'm happy with the improvements. Apple could have waited till Sept/Oct when the Gen 2 version is release with the new software included with no options to upgrade older models. This is how Apple usually adds feature to iPods.

[thatsmyaibo]

OMG, why do people keep thinking they are being charged for an update?

The 1.1.3 update is totally 100% free, they are charging $20 for the software pack.

Why should you get something for free that you knew your device did not have when you purchased it?

Most hardware products get new features via free firmware update. Whether it be a gaming console or a Blu Ray player. These apps were developed months ago and are free to new customers. This move is a move in pure greed. Especially to charge for things like Google Maps. Google never charges for their applications. My Palm Treo can do everything the Touch can do with this update and it didn't cost me a cent more. Even Google Maps was free.

[kylo4]

PS3 got Divx. Guess how much it cost users? $0

[Dim]

All depends on market share and supply/demand. If the PS3 were selling like hotcakes, Sony, shown as one of greediest pigs at times, may charge for things. Companies do what they feel they can get away with. We'll see how this one turns out.

[AlanJC]

People are being blatantly stupid about this, intentionally I believe.

Once more people, you are not being charged for the update, the update is free.

You are being charged for the software pack.

You buy something as an early adopter knowing full well what is on it, and how much it costs, and you know damn well that at some point the price will drop, or something else will get bundled with it to keep sales going.

This is no different.

[dragontit]

Two things I think should be free.

One is Notes. How hard is it to add just that? I mean, previous iPods have them. Why not this one? Doesn't take a genius software writer to make that is it? And two is the ability to config/rearrange the icons. The other apps I could care less about since it require WiFi & WiFi isn't everywhere yet.

[Icebook]

. I payed the $20 and I'm happy with the improvements. Apple could have waited till Sept/Oct when the Gen 2 version is release with the new software included with no options to upgrade older models. .


Bzzzzzzzzz.... WRONG.:shake:

Apple can only do this because the SDK hasn't been released.
Once the SDK is out and there are competing 3rd party applications that do the same thing as these apps then Apple has competition. The competition would change the perceived value and there's no chance anyone would have bought this $20 package for that amount when other developers are charging $5.

And while they could have chosen not to release an SDK it wouldn't have kept new applications from being made and loaded onto the Touch and iPhones. In time people would have figured out a way. Apple should have just stuck to making profits from hardware sales and left consumer applications to others. This is just a new mobile version of OSX, installing and developing programs for it should follow the same model as any other operating system.

[thatsmyaibo]

People are being blatantly stupid about this, intentionally I believe.

Once more people, you are not being charged for the update, the update is free.

You are being charged for the software pack.

You buy something as an early adopter knowing full well what is on it, and how much it costs, and you know damn well that at some point the price will drop, or something else will get bundled with it to keep sales going.

This is no different.

But this is previously developed software. It is for pure profit. There are no more dev costs for this. Not only that, but apps like Google Maps have always been free for every platform. Why should we be charged to use it on our IPT?

[dragontit]

Bzzzzzzzzz.... WRONG.:shake:

Apple can only do this because the SDK hasn't been released.
Once the SDK is out and there are competing 3rd party applications that do the same thing as these apps then Apple has competition. The competition would change the perceived value and there's no chance anyone would have bought this $20 package for that amount when other developers are charging $5.

And while they could have chosen not to release an SDK it wouldn't have kept new applications from being made and loaded onto the Touch and iPhones. In time people would have figured out a way. Apple should have just stuck to making profits from hardware sales and left consumer applications to others. This is just a new mobile version of OSX, installing and developing programs for it should follow the same model as any other operating system.

What makes you think they'll releaes the full SDK to small companies that can compete with Apple themselves. They'll probably release SDK at its entirely to companies like Google & Yahoo! Companies they're close with. But maybe for smaller companies, they'll release a lighter SDK version. For security reasons. Who knows really.

[Skitsefrenik]

What makes you think they'll releaes the full SDK to small companies that can compete with Apple themselves. They'll probably release SDK at its entirely to companies like Google & Yahoo! Companies they're close with. But maybe for smaller companies, they'll release a lighter SDK version. For security reasons. Who knows really.


It's a good thing Google gives out all their stuff for free :cool: Why doesn't Google complain about Apple selling an app in which they pretty much developed. Or is there hidden money under the table :eek:

[kornchild2002]

It's a good thing Google gives out all their stuff for free :cool: Why doesn't Google complain about Apple selling an app in which they pretty much developed. Or is there hidden money under the table :eek:

There is always money under the table when it comes to these types of things and everyone is always borrowing other people's software/technology. Look at the HD movie business, Toshiba payed Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive and I am sure the Blu-ray group (Sony, Samsung, and others) did the exact same thing to get Warner Bros. to go exclusive. Money is always going from one company to another. I am sure Google is paying Apple to get these rights and they probably aren't the only ones. Do you ever think about why Steve plays the artists he does (or movie trailers) during a keynote speech? I have always wondered why he chose such artists. I think those artists (or record companies) pay Apple to get their artists noticed. Steve just doesn't suite me as a Linkin Park fan yet he played a clip of their "What I've Done" music video during his keynote.

[Chaski]

I purchased the apps pack on the day it was released, and I've loved it ever since. When I bought my iPod a few weeks ago, I bought it as a iPod with WiFi capabilities. Sure, I'd heard rumours of software becoming available in the near future, but I still bought the iPod there and then. Thats the product I paid for.

Now, I have the option to improve the product for what, $20? (£12.99 for me) Big deal! There are slight changes between the software on the iPhone and the iPod Touch, such as using the celular signal in GoogleMaps. Changes like that might add $20 to the programmers salary - its more work, they'd want more money.

Move on.

[paranoidxe]

People are being blatantly stupid about this, intentionally I believe.

Once more people, you are not being charged for the update, the update is free.

You are being charged for the software pack.

You buy something as an early adopter knowing full well what is on it, and how much it costs, and you know damn well that at some point the price will drop, or something else will get bundled with it to keep sales going.

This is no different.

Yeah but I think charging people for lyric support and customized menus is a little absurd, nevermind the fact the 1.1.3 firmware didn't fix anything other than give me a slight slow down.

Another High Quality release from apple.

I don't think there is any quality control at apple, they just make it as fast as they can and release it.

[DerekVOF]

No, they actually do quite a bit of testing. To be honest, I find it amazing that they've compressed the majority of the necessary functionality of the Mac OS into a package that's less than 150MB. It's actually fairly impressive. Thing is, the creation of what amounts to a new OS plus applications developed for it has stretched them a lot further than they thought it would. Writing firmware for the older iPods was easier and more straightforward as they didn't have to include all the additional functionality - wireless, touchscreen input, UI, etc. We got the first generation of it, but like with Mac OS and even XP, the "service packs" usually clean up the original issues and we'll hopefully get a nice OS soon. (knock on wood).

[mini.boss]

People are being blatantly stupid about this, intentionally I believe.

Once more people, you are not being charged for the update, the update is free.

You are being charged for the software pack.

You buy something as an early adopter knowing full well what is on it, and how much it costs, and you know damn well that at some point the price will drop, or something else will get bundled with it to keep sales going.

This is no different.

1) The blank spaces on the touch made it no secret that apps were pulled in order to ensure the Touch wouldn't cannibalize phone sales. People knew they would come eventually but nobody expected that when we were finally given permission to use the product to it's fullest then Apple would selectively gouge some users but not others. They didn't charge to put iTunes on the iPhone.

2) Many new users are getting hosed because even if they buy today then if the Touch doesn't have the apps they STILL have to pay. Sure, Apple could have created a window for people but they didn't because since they got your money then why bother. That is a the attitude you want from a company you support?

3) Your "but this is a software suite" excuse is rubbish. This isn't an add-on that turns a Touch into a Phone. These are apps that have been proven to work since day 1 of jailbreak. So they are telling us to either keep jailbreaking or pay $20 for less functionality.

4) You don't work for Apple. That is why they don't send you a paycheck. Nobody is saying the software isn't worth $20. They are just saying it is silly for Apple to expect us to PAY for software that they already developed. Especially since they expect us to support the iTunes Apps once the SDK is released.

[AlanJC]

Just because it was already developed is a really poor excuse. I can't even start to think of all the times this has happened with things in the software world, but buying a laptop with nothing bundled, and then a few months later getting MS Works, Encarta, and so on bundled free is a prime example, and no, the original buyers are in no way entitled to the software, but they can buy it if they want, and that software was already developed too.

Just stop crying about it, Apple didn't have to release this at all, they chose to, and you now have the choice, something you didn't have before, unless you did it illegally through jailbreaking.

[thatsmyaibo]

Just because it was already developed is a really poor excuse. I can't even start to think of all the times this has happened with things in the software world, but buying a laptop with nothing bundled, and then a few months later getting MS Works, Encarta, and so on bundled free is a prime example, and no, the original buyers are in no way entitled to the software, but they can buy it if they want, and that software was already developed too.

Just stop crying about it, Apple didn't have to release this at all, they chose to, and you now have the choice, something you didn't have before, unless you did it illegally through jailbreaking.

Ok but when that laptop comes out with new software do they also charge you for Google Maps?

Google Maps is free software that Google provides for the PC and Mobile. Why should we pay for it now?