A $299 phoneless iphone: 8g iPod Touch vs 4g clearance iphone

[onionperson654]

Contrary to the title of this thread, the 4g iPhone is not yet discontinued, its for $299 on the clearance page, which is the same price as the 8g ipod touch. While the iPod touch seems nice, the iPhone has more functionality even without the phone.

So, what do I and everyone else buy when faced with this choice (assuming no sim-unlock?

Tradeoffs (bold is winner, pardon formatting):

iPod Touch____iPhone
8 gigabytes______4 gigabytes -------8 gigabytes means much more video
unlocked_________locked ------------Touch doesn't worry about unlocking/software upgrades/support
Wait 3-4 weeks___Ships tomorrow ---'nuff said
________________Camera
________________Bluetooth ---------Only minor use without cellphone
________________Embedded email --Very convenient
________________More apple & 3rd p. apps --could iPod touch be getting these?
Higher video output


Lots of thing to weight, but I think the primary questions (beyond the personal of storage space) are:

1.) For those who have unlocked their phones, what is it like, and what is support/software updates/etc. like on a “pirated” phone?
2.) What is the situation on apps? Do people think Apple apps such as email will be put on ipod touch eventually, or ported over by third-parties? What about third party apps?

I think that if it was just an issue of sacrificing 4 gigabytes, I could live with 2 gigabytes of video transferred every 2-4 days, and those that need more space would be considering a 16 gig ipod touch/8 gig iPhone, so that isn’t the overwhelming issue.

The biggest question for everyone making this decision is are the extras on the iphone (ships tomorrow, many apps for a better internet device (arggg, put this on the ipod touch), a camera, and Bluetooth for those who need it worth the trouble of dealing with a hacked iphone and the fear of a software update or bad support making it useless (yikes)?


Personally, I guess I want an phoneless iPhone, and don’t know whether an iPod Touch or hacked iPhone best fits the bill.

[arevalo]

I was in the same boat as you.

The only reason I don't have a iPhone was because of the price and now that it has dropped, I considered but with the launch of the new iPodtouch I was stuck in the middle.

Going with the iPodtouch... has just about everything the iPhone has except for the added apps/phone of course/internet through EDGE/google MAPS/ .... on top of that, if I had went with the iPhone I'd be on a 2 year contract, paying $20 more monthly (I've heard on-the-go works as well but that's more money), tried the EDGE connection at the shop and I wasn't impressed .... I could live without the maps but it's just so convenient imo. Funny how the thing I don't want is in the name itself, I don't want to use the phone just all the nice extras.

As far as your chart and my reasons I don't need an iPhone is because:

1) Camera - I don't need another camera ... if I want a camera I'd buy a camera, not a phone.
2) Bluetooth - as you stated, minimal use.
3) e-mail - the iPod touch has WiFi.
4) iPod apps - WiFi makes this endless.

[M Polo]

I went with the 16gb touch, even though I could have gotten the 8gb iphone for the same. I just personally have no reason to leave Verizon at this time. My Moto Q works fine for email, internet, camera, bluetooth, etc. The iTouch will hold me off until they release the phone on other networks. I'm not much for hacking, etc....

[sf07]

I'm in the exact same situation - but I have no intention of actually activating an iPhone on AT&T... I'm comparing using a 4gig iPhone on clearance vs. buying an iPod touch for the same price.

It seems to me that I can use a variety of free software solutions to "activate" an iphone it would make on heck of a great ipod with some added benefits (like bluetooth, camera, and availability of lots of great apps that can be accessed via WiFi).

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Any serious flaws in my logic or something I'm just plain missing? A $299 iPhone is a very significant price break that to me changed the whole equation...

[Mr. E.]

I feel your pain. Yesterday's announcement really just persuaded me to put off buying a new iPod for a little while longer. I've only had my current one a year anyway, and apart from being cramped for space (which the iPod Touch and the iPhone clearly wouldn't help on), it's doing just fine by me.

The iPod Touch could be the phoneless iPhone, but it's not. Too much has been left out/stripped away, and with the iPhone price drop, choosing a less feature-rich iPod for the same price seems foolish, and yet dropping $400 on an iPhone with the intention of immediately voiding the warranty (since the data plan that comes with it is really not cost effective for me) also seems like a bad idea. I mean what happens if you're one of the few, unlucky ones who gets a dud, you try and hack it, void your warranty, and find out it doesn't work anyway, and you'll be wishing you went for the iTouch.

Both are so tempting and yet not quite right for me, so I don't think I'll be breaking the piggy bank for a new iPod just yet.

[sf07]

I have no intention of actually using AT&T's service (or any cellphone service on an iPhone) but I'm feeling pretty strongly like I'm going to pick up one of the $299 clearance 4 gig iphones instead of the ipod touch...

The Bluetooth, camera, and already established applications that I can access via WiFi make it one heck of a great iPod even without phone service. I'm going to do some looking to make sure I am confident I can activate it without AT&T service using one of the software 'workarounds'... anyone have any thoughts on going down this path?

[Mr. E.]

I have no intention of actually using AT&T's service (or any cellphone service on an iPhone) but I'm feeling pretty strongly like I'm going to pick up one of the $299 clearance 4 gig iphones instead of the ipod touch...

The Bluetooth, camera, and already established applications that I can access via WiFi make it one heck of a great iPod even without phone service. I'm going to do some looking to make sure I am confident I can activate it without AT&T service using one of the software 'workarounds'... anyone have any thoughts on going down this path?

My thoughts are just mostly what I've already expressed:

If you get a dud, or if something happens, I don't know that you can return it.
If Apple closes up that loophole with future updates, you may end up with a brick.
If Apple does add some of the missing features to the iTouch (or a later model) you will have already spent your cash on the iPhone.


Right now the software hacks that exist are supposed to persist across updates, but I don't think that can be guaranteed.

And I'm not trying to dissuade you. I'm just telling you what I've been thinking when going through the same dilemma. Right now, with a little help from my wallet, I've decided to wait. The iPhone has more of what I want than the iTouch, but even that is missing a few pieces like being able to carry files, chat, and download podcasts on the fly. Those are all things that seem to be well within the limits of the technology, but they haven't been added yet, so I'm just going to hope those features show up in the near future.

[shorberg]

what can you do with bluetooth on an iphone without having the phone feature? why would you want bluetooth on an ipod touch?

<-- not getting something here, lol

[wolfpackfan]

I am in this same situation. I am torn between buying a $299 Touch or a $299 4GB iPhone (or even $349 refurb 8GB iPhone). I will eventually want an iPhone with an AT&T account but I still have a year and 3 months or so left on my Sprint account (with four phones). If I was assured I could somehow use the iPhone phoneless for some period of time, I might would go ahead and get it now. That $299 price is very attractive.

[jhollington]

There are some very simple "hacktivation" methods for the iPhone that will work to make it usable as a WiFi iPod, similar in concept to the iPod touch.

This is probably the best option if you're eventually considering an iPhone anyway. There are no guarantees that these activation hacks will always work, but at the same time, closing such a hole doesn't seem to be a huge priority for Apple, and it's been ridiculously simple thus far for the hackers to reverse-engineer the activation process.

If you're going to eventually use AT&T's service anyway, it's probably even less of an issue.

[onionperson654]

Well, I've had another day to more leisurely ponder this, and my mind has moved towards (but not yet in) to the ipod touch camp for some of the following reasons.

First and foremost- Support. If you can't get support without the AT&T contract, then its probably not worth the risk (even if it has no moving parts). NOTE: I would strongly recommend NOT getting the $349 refuribished 8g model and doing this, as it would be somewhat (maybe not much) more likely to have issues.

Activation: I'm not really worried about this because there are so many ways to do it easily now, that even if all of them were invalidated, it wouldn't be long before a new patch was released.

Bluetooth, Camera, etc: Not much need for bluetooth without the phone (I don't need to shell out a bunch of money for wireless headphones). The Camera is better than many phones, and the pictures more usefull to send, but in reality you can use your cameraphone for capturing moments and a real camera for quality pictures.

Applications: While mail is absent and there aren't yet applications hacked for the ipod touch, there almost certainly will be, and many if its operating system is much like the iphone (plus, I read a horrible review of the email app, so I'm not so psyched about it now).

Phone abilities: if you have AT&T or plan to switch sometime in the future, or have t-mobile and plan to use the hack if/when it comes out, then that's a whole new ballgame. however, I've got a LG phone with little extras that has better reception than anything I've ever seen (really, buildings that were once dead spots are not anymore), and I'm happy to have it AND the tiny ipod touch in my pockets at the same time. But if you feel otherwise, or want the cool factor (I must admit, its pretty cool), then I'd go for it.



iPod Touch:
8 gigs means I could really hold some videos and not have to transfer much (2 gigs music, 2 or 6 gigs video is three times the video). Plus, I believe that video out on the ipod touch is better, if you want that.

Dedicated support. Plus, Costco (and perhaps Best Buy and others) have good extra support on top of Apple's.

Slightly smaller (not a big deal).



It's a hard one, but I guess I'll wait for the ipod touch to come out and keep thinking, and perhaps they will run out of 4g iphones and I will have the decision made for me. Of course... camera...bluetooth...email...hmmmmm......

[onionperson654]

Whoops, thought it deleted above post.

As of Sept. 7, can't see getting iphone.

On the other hand, I'm having a hard time waiting....argh!!!

[tintin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the iPhone doesn't have WiFi correct? For me this is the big deciding factor for the Touch.

Oh, that and the fact that I work for a CDMA carrier and have a smartphone (be it a Treo 700wx, Blackberry, HTC etc.) already.

I like the idea of the extra apps and functionality of the iPhone, but without WiFi, it's a no-brainer.

[jhollington]

Of course the iPhone has WiFi. That was one of its selling points.

At this point, the iPod touch actually has nothing than the iPhone doesn't, other than the increased storage capacity. If you definitely don't want a phone, then by all means the iPod touch is a viable solution, but you're also missing out on the speaker, camera, mail application and Google Maps, to name a few things.

At the same time, however, you don't have to deal with support issues, hacktivation issues, or contract issues. The iPod touch would just work out of the box.

The iPod touch, as-announced, will have features like the iTunes WiFi Store, but that's also going to be coming to the iPhone in a firmware upgrade.

[tintin]

Sorry - my mistake. Symptom of being in Canada, outside the iPhone market. Don't know why I thought it didn't.

Google maps would only be useful to me if it worked off-network with my bluetooth GPS. I have TomTom on my Treo doing that - all of North America is stored on a 128MB SD card. Unfortunately I think Google maps requires data connectivity to work, if it's the same Google Maps app I have on my Treo.

I have no use for the phone, and while a $299 4GB iPhone is tempting, for the same money I'd rather have an extra 4GB than the camera and speaker etc.

[Mr. E.]

what can you do with bluetooth on an iphone without having the phone feature? why would you want bluetooth on an ipod touch?

<-- not getting something here, lol

From what I understand (which could be flawed, given that I don't have an iPhone), bluetooth as it's implemented in the iPhone, would be pretty much useless in the iTouch because:

It's not stereo
Its only application is to connect to a bluetooth headset.


However, Bluetooth could have applications outside of what it's currently used for in the iPhone, so that's where it's absence might bother some people. It could be used for syncing, general file transfer, music streaming, and in some cases it might be useful for internet access. And if they included stereo-capable bluetooth, you could use bluetooth stereo headphones which weren't tethered to your iPod.

But, as I said, I don't think bluetooth is currently being used for any of this stuff, so, yes, as it's currently implemented, bluetooth has virtually no application in the iTouch, but it does have potential. And there are some reports that the iTouch actually contains a bluetooth chip that is currently not usable, but if it is indeed there, it does open the door to potentially having some of these other options.

[jhollington]

I strongly suspect that Apple will eventually add A2DP (stereo bluetooth support), but as is usually the case with Apple, they're waiting until they can get it working to their standards in terms of quality and battery life.

[rt297]

Since the iTouch has wifi, does that mean it will communicate with Airport Express to stream audio to an outboard audio system?
Thanks,
Russ

[jhollington]

No, at this point there is no evidence whatsoever that this feature is in there, or that Apple intends to add it.

The WiFi is primarily for receiving data, rather than sending it, and if you really think about it, the WiFi on the iPod touch serves only two primary purposes: YouTube and allowing you to buy music wirelessly from the iTunes Store. The Browser was merely a necessary addition to facilitate WiFi access, since you need to sign on with a browser in most public-access WiFi hotspots.

While other things may be done with it in the future, it's really not intended to replace the sort of things you can do with WiFi from a computer.

Now what hackers may eventually do with this is another story entirely, of course...

[thesmyster]

I just bought the 4gig iphone!!!!

i was also debating on 4gig iphone vs 8gig itouch here is why i decided with the iphone that will help you too:

HAS BUILT IN SPEAKER

COMES WITH THE AC ADAPTER (THE IPOD TOUCH DOESNT)

i did the hack to use it without activation (really easy and simple no downsides), im not using it for phone but it is awsome!! if the extra 4gigs of space is no big deal to you, pick up the iphone now! you never know, in the future you can unlock the iphone and sell your current phone therefore saving even more money (if you buy the ipod touch you have to keep the current phone you have even in the future)

[Jackonicko]

Which hack did you use?

[yacoub]

So basically, given that storage is crucial for those of us looking for a media player first and foremost, the next most important thing is to see apps come to the Touch like GoogleMaps and Email. Then we'll have an iPhone without the phone (camera doesn't count, most everyone's cellphone already has one so who cares, and the lack of a built-in speaker is a great thing to keep down annoyance factor).

[JazzyMac]

Can you log into msn/yahoo accounts to send and receive messages on the Touch?

[jeremy3721]

I thought about this as well. I will not pay for an edge data plan so until that issue is resolved I will never use an Iphone as a phone.

I have ordered the 16GB iPod Touch mainly because I cannot see getting by with anything less than 16GB. Actually 30GB is what I consider a minimum but what can you do!

I would like to have the bluetooth on the iPod Touch (for the possibility of using the device for GPS in the future)

I also would like to have the camera, I just don't really see why they didn't include it.

[jhollington]

Which hack did you use?
If you go over to www.hackint0sh.org, they discuss a number of good options for this, and there are more and more click-and-activate GUI apps becoming available. Another good site for these is http://www.hacktheiphone.net, which has screenshots and step-by-step instructions for both Mac and PC.

Can you log into msn/yahoo accounts to send and receive messages on the Touch?
There is no standalone IM client on the device itself, although a few hackers are working on one. The most reliable way to do it right now, however, is to use a web-based service like JiveTalk or Meebo (see Jeremy's Backstage notes (http://backstage.ilounge.com/index.php/backstage/comments/meebo-almost-perfect-im-for-iphone/) on Meebo for more info).

These sorts of services work well, but of course you have to remember you're logged in through a browser and therefore won't get any kind of portable "always-on" use out of them... You pretty much have to fire up the page, log in, and stay on that particular page as your "IM client." Fortunately, the Safari browser supports multi-page/tabbed style browsing, so you can easily leave a Meebo or Jivetalk page open in the background.

[JazzyMac]

I meant email.

[orimental]

Go with the touch. At least this way, you won't have AT&T send you a box with your monthly billing statement in it.

[thesmyster]

i used the iphone activation server.

go with the phone over the touch trust me.