Buying new phones for commuting!

[Skywong]

Hello!

My Nano's stock earbuds are dying out, and I was looking to buy some new earphones. I did not have much problems with the sound of the earbuds, but I feel like I want to upgrade from it to get a little better sound.

I've read this forum throughly, but I wanted to find out from you all what would fit my lifestyle the best.

Here is a little info.
I commute on the subway and walk a few blocks in downtown areas everyday.
I listen to music that varies from Pop to rock to hip-hop and even some Jazz.
I want the earphones to block out the sound around me because with the stock buds I needed to turn up the volume which I feel hurt my hearing.
Price-wise I want to stay under 200. Right now I'm looking at E3C, UE Super fi5 pro, UM1, and the EX-90lp.

I have heard that most in-ear phones will have a microphonic effect where the wires will make it sound weird when tugged or brushing during walking. Since my main use is walking and commuting, that would be a huge problem. :o

Please help me out. :(

Sky

[isanity]

If you're going to be listening in noisy environments, I don't think there's any advantage in spending that much. (IEMs block out most external noise, but not all of it). All of them will have the microphonic rumble effect, but it's not too bad unless you're listening to something very quiet, and you can cut most of it out by clipping the cord onto your clothing.

People have said very nice things about three cheap IEMs: the Creative EP630, Sharp MD33 and Senn CX300. They're all very similar- the Creatives are cheaper but hard to find.

[Skywong]

hmm, okay... How about V-moda remix m and bass freq?

I liked the mids and highs of the stock ipod buds.. Is there a cheap alternative without over bassing it?

[feh1325]

creatives are supposed to be very good

you can find them on amazon

[Skywong]

So what you guys are telling me is not to go with something of the higher end?

[feh1325]

when it comes down to sound quality for your dollar, cans defeat iem and earbuds handsdown

maybe try a closed can

[Skywong]

But I'm looking for earbuds or IEMs, I wear glasses and I hate wearing clipons and large headphones. Something that goes in the ear would be great. And something that fits what I listen to and my usage. I've looked into the creatives, cx300s, and md 33. But I don't know about the creatives, bad experience with previous speakers branded creative.

[isanity]

The three I mentioned are all made by the same company- the brand name's more or less irrelevant.

[danmonk]

I have a par of super fi 5's for commuting on the London Underground which is bloody noisy.

With the foam eartips they block out a significant amount of the background noise. So much so I only have the volume up around 50%.

I don't have the problem with the cable echoing through the earphones. I'm not sure if this is because I'm using the foam ear tips? I did get this with my previous Sony earphones.

They're also comfortable with glasses.

I dont have any experience with the other earphones but I would recommend the Super fi's

[Skywong]

Super fi 5 pro.. I will look into that! THANKS!

[Jackonicko]

SuperFi 5EBs are slightly cheaper and sound much fuller than the pro (I own both). They're not crude 'thumpers' in the way that the EB tag might lead you to expect.

If you want to spend less, the EX90 is great for commuting because the fit is so good.

[J41M3]

In my opinion the Superfi.5Pro gives you the best bang for your buck. As far as I know it is the only sub $200 dual-driver IEM in the market.

Not meaning to bash the previous suggestions, but there is no comparison between the above mentioned "earbuds" and a dual-driver IEM. It will be like comparing a Wal-Mart brand battery operated one speaker radio to an 800 watt Macintosh system with Klipsch speakers. :p

Just exagerating on that one but trying to make a point. ;)

99% of IEMs will block out around 25 dB of ambient sound. Any IEM will do a decent job as long as you are using the right sleeves for your ear canal. Luckily most come with an assorted fit kit for you to try the different sleeves and decide which best works for you.

I suggest you give the Ultimate Ears Superfi.5Pro a try. I am pretty sure you will not be dissapointed. I know I love mine. :D

[Jackonicko]

"As far as I know it is the only sub $200 dual-driver IEM in the market."

Um, like the SuperFi 5EB, then.

Again. I own the pro and the EB, and I prefer the EB. I've heard and own both.

And though I own the SuperFi 3, 5EB and 5 Pro, I wouldn't write off the other phones. The EX90 does not sound as nice, but is far more comfortable. The Panasonic HJE70 sounds warmer but doesn't stay in as well.

[Skywong]

Jacko, I don't really emphasize bass in my music. I really like to hear it more clear and defined. Would you still suggest the EBs?

[GIGANTOID]

The E3c are good IEMs I own a pair. They are clear with good highs and mids however the bass can be lacking depending on the source. The E4c's would be a better overall choice given your price range and the ones you mentioned. ANY of the choices you mentioned will be a better sound and choice than the stock earbuds by miles. IEMs will significantly reduce the intrusion of outside noice, plus they are less conspicuous than closed headphones.

Currently I use a pair of Westone UM2s they will be much better than the ones you listed but also more expensive. BUt I still think the Shure E4c are what youre looking for.

[Macromedia]

The EB I find to have too much bass. Even the pro can be muddy too. I like the Shure E4. Might be short on bass though. Also try the Westone UM2

[thedodgyguy]

It pretty much stands to reason that the patron saint / talker-upper of crappy phones would prefer the EB's :p On purely the basis of sound I prefer the S.F.5Pro among the suggestions as a <balanced> earphone when fitted right.


The problem with both EB and Pro though is variability of fit based on your ears. The foam earpieces fit me fairly well when sitting still but had a habit of falling out otherwise, and didn't provide anywhere near the isolation that an E3c (let alone an Etymotic) would. And when fitted in less than an optimal way, the way that the sounds from the two drivers mix in the canal can lead to a 'muddy sound' as referenced by Macromedia - although most times a tiny change in the fit can unmuddy that sound. But it may be that you can't unmuddy that sound AND get a good fit. It will depend purely on how your ears are shaped. Beware is all I can say. If it fits you, the SF5Pro is surely the best bang for the buck in balanced-armature IEMs.


As much as I don't like the way the Etymotics sound, the ER-6i and ER-4P provide maximum isolation as they have the longest foam tips which go deeper in your ears. If isolation is your highest priority (planes, clattery squeaky subways, etc) then the Etymotics are your best choice IMO. The ER-6i sounds tinny and anaemic compared to the likes of the SF5Pro but it does provide outstanding isolation with the foam tips, combined with reasonable wear comfort and it will stay in ears.


The E3c is slightly less tinny than the ER-6i in comparison to the SF5Pro, but not by that much. There's still quite an artificial tinniness to the sound. It's easier to get used to than the ER-6i IMO and out of all the above I think this phone is the one easiest to live with. It's fairly rugged, gives you options to wear (either 'down' for quick wear, or 'up & down the neck' for hugely reduced microphonics and stable wear even with fairly vigorous head movement) foam / other tips fit almost all ears well, the foam tips isolate well.


In terms of isolation if you're using foam tips all of these are at least (in the case of the SF5Pro) a class above the likes of the Sennheiser CX300. In the case of the Etymotic + foam, you can expect a drastic reduction and with the Shure, something inbetween - not spectacular, but very good isolation nevertheless. Shure E3c foamies are significantly cheaper to replace than Etymotic ER-6i for a good reason - the Comply tips are very isolating and comfy. ER-4P foamies run about the same as the E3c. (since foamies have to be replaced quite often, it becomes a running cost that you have to factor in)


The EX90 has no isolation and it shouldn't be considered.


I hope that's confused you further ;) Basically it's all about compromises and you have to choose the best compromise for you.


If you want to keep it cheap, get the CX300. What you get is no worse than the other $30-$50 in-ear phones and better balanced than some, (and the ~10db reduction in ambient noise is about the same as the other similarly shaped phones around the price & the HJE70. Usable, but could do better) and you also get the 2-year warranty.

[Jackonicko]

"It pretty much stands to reason that the patron saint / talker-upper of crappy phones would prefer the EB's."

Yes, I do prefer the EBs to the pros, marginally. I make no secret of preferring a slightly more bass heavy sound than would be absolutely 'balanced', as would most people, though I am by no means a bass head, and excessive bass turns me off. Very few people keep the balance knob dead centre!

The point is that though labelled EB, most normal people would not recognise the sound produced as being excessively bass heavy, whereas many would find the pro sound beautifully clear but just a little less warm and involving.

[warpdrive]

snip....see above

I agree with Dodgyguy out of all the posts here.

To my ears, all of the IEM's are flawed in one way or another sonically but the best ones talked about so far are the Superfi Pro 5. I also like the Etymotic ER6i for its value (good isolation, a bit thin sounding but well under $100). Also, the Shure E4 isn't bad either but it's competing in price to the Superfi.

I really dislike:
Shure E3 (thin sounding with recessed treble)
Superfi 5 EB (too much pronounced bass for my liking)

Jacki seems to prefer bass heavy headphones so it's no surprise he likes the EB more, but most people **I've talked** to that have heard them both seem to think the Pro is more balanced. I found the Pro to be exactly well balanced in the bass and mids but a little too veiled in the treble. The EB basically bumps up the midbass and I find it overwhelms the rest of the spectrum. The fit can be an issue though so make sure you buy from a dealer with a return policy. I find the Shure E4's very easy to fit comparatively and provide better isolation.

I disagree with the post that says buying an expensive IEM isn't worth it. Oncel you've tried 20-30dB of isolation, there is no going back. With proper fitting, something like the ER6i or Shure E4 is amazing. Noisy buses and planes is a problem of the past and if you are a heavy bus/plane/train commuter or travelling, you owe it to yourself to get an good IEM with high isolation.

The EX90 has very little isolation so I would steer you toward the other IEMs first before I recommend that one, even though I enjoy mine a fair bit

[Jackonicko]

The self-proclaimed audiophiles all hanker after a 'true', 'balanced' sound that most normal folk would view as flat and even tinny. That's why so many of them hold up the dreadful ER6i as being some kind of example of audio nirvana.

Again, I don't like bass heavy phones, I just like good, clear punchy bass, and I don't like it so submerged as to leave the overall sound picture tinny, nor delivered as a crude, muddy thump.

And unlike most of those here I actually own all of the phones I'm expressing opinions on.

[warpdrive]

The self-proclaimed audiophiles all hanker after a 'true', 'balanced' sound that most normal folk would view as flat and even tinny. That's why so many of them hold up the dreadful ER6i as being some kind of example of audio nirvana.


I assume this is your attempt at throwing an insult my way.

I find the ER6i unbalanced, but then again I find ALL the IEM's unbalanced in some way but I still recommend it based on its excellent isolation (which I highly value) and generally clear presentation (altough treble quality could be a lot better), and its affordable price.

Your idea of "not bass heavy" is highly subjective and highly dependent on one's hearing. Your assertion that most people would find the EB more balanced is highly presumptuous, as I have seen people (who are far from audiophiles) prefer the Pro to the EB in side by side auditions.

So it's up to the original poster who to believe, me or you. I assert the Pro is a better sounding headphone than the EB, more realistically balanced. I would not recommend the EB for general listening. I do listen to trance, dance music, so bass quality *is* important to me.

Just because you've owned the headphones doesn't discount another's opinion (assuming that person has heard them properly fitted and with familar music material). I've heard both enough to confidently write my post with a strong recommendation.

[Jackonicko]

Your idea of balanced is no more and no less subjective, just more arrogantly stated.

Moreover, the OP was talking about cheap phones, and the EBs cost

[toothpaste]

Skywong

Get the E3C's. That is my sugestion to you.

jacko

Comfort is relative isn't it?

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=Jackonicko]Your idea of balanced is no more and no less subjective, just more arrogantly stated.

Moreover, the OP was talking about cheap phones, and the EBs cost

[Skywong]

Well, on my original post I said that I wanted something under 200,

Both the super fi 5 pro and Shure e3c are under the price level. Now I'm just wondering which one.

Which one isolates better? Sound quality better? I personally did not have any problem with the stock ipod buds lack of bass. I really didn't care for it, to me it sounded much better than my other sony headsets. (All of which cheap ones like 10 - 20 dollars)

So now I am going to go for a pair of higher ends, and I am very close to making my decision. It will be between the Super fi5 pro and e3cs. If there are no major differences I might just end up spending less for the e3cs, but I keep hearing about the replacement cable option of UE IEMs and I love the concept.

Most of my phones have always broke with the cable no longer transferring the music to the drivers. You know, when you have to fidget with the connection to get the sound to come to both ears instead of it being all in one ear.

So yes, Thank you for all your help but it comes down to these two. Can you help give the different pros and cons?

[feh1325]

isolation really depends on the tips you use. both can use foamies, silicon sleeves, and flanges.

i find that the foamies offer the most comfort and best sound quality. the silicon sleeves didn't fit me very well and the triflanges were a bit uncomfortable.

unfortunately, both sound quailty and comfort differ greatly from one person to another. but, since the 5pro have two drivers, it might be more detailed. don't quote me on anything, i've never heard any iem except my shure e3g.

about your cable problems, you are right that you can replace the UE cable easily. i've read at headfi and somebody lost their UE driver because it got separated from the detachable cord. again, i don't know how secure the cable is because i've never seen a UE iem in real life, but they do look respectable.

both shure and UE are known to have very good costumer service. the foamies i got with my shures were a bit defective. i emailed shure and had a whole new fit kit at my doorstep within a week and a half. i'm sure UE would have done the same for their customers

[warpdrive]

Well, on my original post I said that I wanted something under 200,

Both the super fi 5 pro and Shure e3c are under the price level. Now I'm just wondering which one.

Which one isolates better? Sound quality better? I personally did not have any problem with the stock ipod buds lack of bass. I really didn't care for it, to me it sounded much better than my other sony headsets. (All of which cheap ones like 10 - 20 dollars)


I'd say the Superfi Pro 5 is directly comparable to the E4 in price and sound quality, they both are in a different league than the E3. As I said, I very much dislike the E3 immensely, and I don't consider it half as good as the Superfi Pro. The E3 is severely midrange centric in its presentation to the point they are not enjoyable in any way.

The Shure's just have more tips options and in general they isolate better and fit more deeply, but the Superfi sounds better marginally to my preferences. Since isolation is more important to me and they fit better in my ears, I'd prefer the Shure E4 over the SuperFi 5.

I think going with either is fine because both companies, and Etymotic also have exceptional customer service if something does go wrong.

[shixun]

Jacko, I don't really emphasize bass in my music. I really like to hear it more clear and defined. Would you still suggest the EBs?You say you want clarity, definition & isolation... Bass doesn't matter that much... Budget up to $200...

Seems as though you should at least be considering Etys, particularly the ER-4P.

I'd also suggest the Altec Lansing iM716, at only $75 shipped from Amazon.

[Grendell]

My two cents are Creative Aurvanas or Ultimate Ears Superfi.3 studios. Or Creative EP630s. All sub $100. You might also want to wait for Jens Q-jays. I read somewhere that it'll be somewhere around that price range. Jens claims 2 pairs of balanced armature drivers per ear! Most similar designs with other companies take you up to $500 or more for those kinds of specs.

[dylangurl21]

Well... I love my e3s in a coffee house... or at my apartment studying..but I can't stand them commuting. I hate walking around with them and no matter what I do with the cord, I get the brushing against my clothing noises. If it is at all possible, I'd suggest trying a decent pair of in-ears before spending the money on a pair to see if you can deal with the cord noises!

[thedodgyguy]

Well... I love my e3s in a coffee house... or at my apartment studying..but I can't stand them commuting. I hate walking around with them and no matter what I do with the cord, I get the brushing against my clothing noises. If it is at all possible, I'd suggest trying a decent pair of in-ears before spending the money on a pair to see if you can deal with the cord noises!


Are you sure you're wearing them properly down the back of your neck? If you wear them this way and you cinch the clear tube up, then this DRASTICALLY reduces such issues.

[Skywong]

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments.

I have bought the super.fi 5 pros. I enjoy them, and I find them suitable for my situation.

One thing though, I got them for $100. Compusa here was going out of business and had to sell all their inventory.

The sound is dependent on the isolation.. isn't it? Sometimes it sounds great, sometimes it sounds muddy.

I just did the L-R swap tweak, and its helped with the sound and fit.

Again thanks to all!