How much audio do you have?

[jemm]

I did do a search but didn't find a thread like this. I was wondering... how much audio do you have in iTunes? I mean file sizes.

I've just started inporting all my audiobooks and i'm amazed actually how much stuff I have - it all adds up! I'm probably going to have about 12gb when it's all in (although currently i have <1gb in itunes :( )

So what about you, i'm sure some of you must have loads!

[moriond]

Originally posted by jemm
I did do a search but didn't find a thread like this. I was wondering... how much audio do you have in iTunes? I mean file sizes.

I've just started inporting all my audiobooks and i'm amazed actually how much stuff I have - it all adds up! I'm probably going to have about 12gb when it's all in (although currently i have <1gb in itunes :( )

So what about you, i'm sure some of you must have loads!
Seems to me there are folks all over the forum who boast about the size of their iTunes library -- and many put this in their sigs.:) I try to keep my iTunes library below 35 GB by backing up and deleting when it goes over this amount. The size is mostly due to audiobooks, which can be quite lengthy. But you may be able to pare down your files by adjusting bit rates when you import audiobook files into iTunes.

[jemm]

Yes I noticed some sigs like that. I too am going to try and keep my library down. It just seems stupid to have so much when you're never going to listen to it. I doubt I'll ever fill my 30Gb iPod :( but that doesn't really bother me. I like to listen to stuff over again often, if it's good, rather than listen to new stuff just for the sake.

I've been compressing all audio files to 64kbps AAC because I can't seem to fault any of these files I've converted - sounds fine to me. And it saves me some space.

[Cloysterpeteuk]

Well my current itunes library is a whopping 1.43GB, currently listening to Terry Goodkind - Wizard's First Rule which is over 30hr long so take up 418mb of that figure.

As for how much spoken audio I have well i've got around about 5 - 6GB of free podcast audiobooks although that figure is hard to work out as some are mixed in with the standard audiobooks.

Normal audiobooks I have 110GB, there are still loads I want to get which will probably take up another 100GB when I get them, though I need to buy a new PC first, with at least a 320GB HDD.

[jemm]

So with all that audio, will you load it all into iTunes then use the uncheck box thing so only what you want transfers to iPod each time? Just wondering.

[Vance]

Is that how iTunes works? (I don't have an iPod)

Does it load everything unless you tell it NOT to? I would not like that at all. My Rio Music Manager, just automatically scans and shows all the mp3's from the sources I direct it to (scans every time I start the program), and then I pick and choose those albums or tracks I want loaded. I just click the selected albums and press the load button. It has a sync option, but I turned that off right away.

I have probably 150 GB of audiobooks, and some music as well, and I would like software to manage my entire library but with the default of it NOT loading or syncing, but with a very easy "load" function. I don't want anything to load or sync automatically (other than maybe podcasts).

[moriond]

Originally posted by Vance
Is that how iTunes works? (I don't have an iPod)

Does it load everything unless you tell it NOT to? I would not like that at all.

I have probably 150 GB of audiobooks, and some music as well, and I would like software to manage my entire library but with the default of it NOT loading or syncing, but with a very easy "load" function. I don't want anything to load or sync automatically (other than maybe podcasts).

No, Vance, if you read the other threads -- including the one about loading mp3 files, and the FAQ, you'll have seen that you can disable autosync, just as you did for your RIO, and that many forum users use manual sync to transfer audiobooks. You can also have semi-automatic sync, and transfer only playlists that you check.

Also, if you remember the link to the thread of the other former RIO user (originally disgruntled), there was even the option to remove mp3 tracks as you finish listening to them, if you're using a smart playlist. (And no, you don't have to automatically remove them if you don't want to -- that was a bonus feature that the smart playlist user wanted that is not possible on other mp3 players).

[moriond]

jemm,

A lot of us are Audible subscribers. If I look over the various sale books I've purchased in combination with membership subscriptions, I'd estimate the average audiobook from Audible cost me about $7, and ran maybe 10 hours in length. I can download these again from the Audible servers at any time, so I don't have to keep all these in my iTunes Library at the same time.

Yes, I can offload the library onto a disk, and yes, I also make backups. But I can also reload these audiobooks from the online Audible servers, and in different compressed formats. In most cases there are one or two files per book, with internal chapter markers for navigation. These are already bookmarkable. Something like George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice volumes take 4 files, each about 120MB in size, to cover a 54 hour audiobook volume.

Another comment -- there are a lot of AppleScripts on the Mac side that make this library management easier than with a PC. I started with a PC, and still use it for other functions -- just not audiobook management.:)

[Vance]

Moriond, thanks for the information. That is why I asked, because the earlier post seemed to indicate something I had not heard before: that you have to "uncheck" something to keep it from syncing. I thought that it meant unchecking each album or track, but I now see that he meant unchecking the auto-sync option.

Just so you know, I am a veteran to forums such as these and do, indeed, read a lot of other posts, and even scan through the FAQ's and stickys. But unless you sit down and religiously read every post or every bit of the FAQ and manuals, you will still be a bit in the dark.

As someone knowledgable on other subjects in other forums, I always make it a point to answer any question I can presented by newbies, even if they are answered elsewhere, doing as you do, which is to point them to the appropriate specific thread.

I will say that I have rarely seen anyone willing to give such in-depth and useful responses to inquiries as you do. Every day I come across something useful from you. It is folks like you who make these forums a god-send.

[Vance]

Personally, I just went ahead and bought an external hard drive (they are getting cheaper by the day), and that works great.

[moriond]

Originally posted by Vance
It is folks like you who make these forums a god-send.
Thanks, Vance :) One of the nice things about using audiobooks on the iPod is the amount of support you get from the iLounge forums. I'm only paying things back in kind.

[Cloysterpeteuk]

Originally posted by jemm
So with all that audio, will you load it all into iTunes then use the uncheck box thing so only what you want transfers to iPod each time? Just wondering.

Nah, why would I have audiobooks in itunes that i'm not listening to?. I only ever have one audiobook in itunes at a time, thje rest of the time they sit happily in there respective folders somewhere on the hard drive.

[Vance]

I am odd in that I like to have up to 30 or 40 audiobooks on my player at a given time. Partly because I like to bounce around a lot. I will listen to some while driving, some at home where I can read along (eg, Shakespeare) and some that I listen while falling asleep. Another reason is that I don't listen to music much at all, so I have a lot of space left open. There is other stuff that I just like keeping on all the time, even if I only listen on occasion, such as the Iliad, the Bible, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Jeeves stuff, etc.

[moriond]

jemm's question was about how much audio people keep in iTunes. I try to limit the size of my iTunes library because I'm using a laptop. Vance, as a matter of curiosity, how are you getting most of your audio content? Are you using mp3 tracks from purchased mp3 audiobook CDs and downloads, or have you digitized recordings from cassettes and other sources and exported these to formats convenient for your Rio Karma?

This could be an issue for you for adding audiobook content. Audible supports the Rio Karma and iPods, but this clearly isn't the source of most of your books, given your file format. MediaBay and Microsoft plan to launch (well, massively expand and promote) audiobook services based on WMA-players with Playsforsure drm. This is essentially in competition with Audible, and with agreements with many of the same publishers. But as far as I know, the Rio Karma does not support Playsforsure download or subscription -- only the Rio Forge and Carbon models do. OverDrive and NetLibrary downloadable audiobook services to libraries also use Playsforsure. Neither the iPod nor the Rio Karma will natively handle these products.

Incidentally, some of the content you mention is available through Audible: Stephen Mitchell's translation of Gilgamesh, John Lescaux's narration of The Iliad and the Odyssey (a decent version, but not the best), many of the P.G. Wodehouse (now carrying several read by Jonathan Cecil, and others). I would have guessed that you might have recorded some of your content from tape -- I did this for the Ian McKellan reading of the F agles translation of the Odyssey, not available in any other format, and for a lot of my preferred versions of P.G. Wodehouse (Alexander Spencer narrating, and other readers that are now out of print). If this is the case, then WMA DRM capability may not be a consideration, but otherwise sources of audiobook content might be a factor for you.

A large part of what I like about the iPod has to do with the integrated capabilities with iTunes. YMMV.

[Vance]

Most of my content comes from library versions of CD's I have ripped, and a great deal as well from The Teaching Company downloads. I began listening to audiobooks back around 1983 after hearing George Will talk about them on the Johnny Carson show. He metioned Books-on-Tape by name and that they were from Costa Mesa (not far from me then). I actually went straight to their location and got a catalog and I have been hooked ever since, also enjoying Recorded Books, LLC and Chivers (from England).

It was actually BOT that turned me on to library versions. They said that while they enjoyed my business (I knew many of them by name back then), I should really be checking out my local libraries, which had growing collections. I did and it actually broadened my scope of genres to mystery and non-fiction. From that time forward, I was listening to about 40 to 50 books a year. I have library card to about 12 different libraries in my area.

When they first started coming out on CD, I asked a few of the librarians whether they had a problem with me ripping them for my personal use, and they said not at all. The producer/artist already got their money from the library sale, and it would mean I would not have to keep the books as long or come back for them over and over (like the Jeeves books, which I had out so often, he was getting complaints from others). Just to make sure, I called Recorded Books and they said as long as it was for personal use and I didn't share, it was fine, since I would just be getting it from the library anyway. They said they would not approve of me ripping any CD's I had rented from them. So, I haven't.

Unfortunately, the Jeeves books were not on CD at any of the libraries I went to, but I had made cassette copies and a friend of mine made a few of them on mp3 for me. I still have most of my Jeeves on cassette, however.

I also have been getting audiobooks as gifts from just about everyone that knows me, since I have preached audiobooks for 20 years. I am thus easy (but not cheap) to buy for.

Where I HAVE spent a bundle is with the Teaching Company. I have many of their lecture series, and they are not cheap.

Lastly, I have some friends who just hand me CDRW's with audiobooks on them in MP3 format they have created (it really has been a benefit being known as an audiobook addict). I have been hesitant to ask them where they got them, but I know I should, and then turn them down if not kosher.

All in all, I have amassed more audiobooks than I can ever really listen to.

I have that Gilgamesh as done by Recorded Books, LLC, and it is awesome. The reader (George Guidall) is one of my favorites.

EDIT: I should point out that I make no claims about the actual legality of ripping library copies. I have based my actions on my conversations with the librarians and RB, LLC. I have no qualms about it morally in the least, however. I do get a little bothered by using the books that my friends give me on CD, I will admit, but that actually makes up a minority of my collection.

[moriond]

I guess that importing new sources of audiobooks in wma drm format will not be a major issue for you.:) I have a slightly different approach to this. I read a lot, and narrator/version is a big factor in the audiobooks I select. So I'm not interested in getting books simply because they're in audio format, because in cases where I don't like the narrator I'd rather read the book. And in many cases I've already read the book before the audiobook. The great thing about Audible is that you get to preview the actual texts before buying. That means a far lower possibility of duds, and a few instances where you find books that would not otherwise be interesting. The down side of Audible is that it is still limited in what it carries, and initially was geared to self-help and business books (and had a web site that was pretty difficult to navigate).

One of the attractions of getting a Mac was the ease of recording all these great, old, fading (and out-of-print) audiotapes. (I bought all the Recorded Books, LLC Alexander Spencer Wodehouse tapes, and they were among the first to get digitized. Thank You, Jeeves was released as a CD about a year and a half ago -- but only through Borders; Recorded Books now shows CD library copies have been made of these titles, but I haven't seen any of these show up anywhere.) I haven't listened to many of the Teaching Company tapes, since they're expensive and our library doesn't carry them. This is a favorite of stensvaag, though. Also, a lot of the old great spoken word recordings were on the Caedmon label, and only available on tape. Some of these performances have made it over to Audible, but a lot of their Caedmon offerings got dropped about a week after the iTunes Music store opened.

You might be interested in staying in touch with these forums even if you decide against getting an iPod. There are discussions about other sources of audio material in the recommended lists and in other miscellaneous threads, and occasional discussions about readers. Occasionally, there are great publisher's web sites with supporting material. For examples, photographs as well as complementary text for Shackleton's polar explorations (in Alfred Lansing's Endurance).

I used to get the spoken word catalogs from Heffers (when there still was a Heffers) in the UK, and occasionally order tapes. Also, Mind's Eye used to do some nice recordings. The big drawback for Recorded Books and B-O-T was not being able to sample the narrations.

I have to admit that I still tag all my audio books according to written chapters, so that I can find things in the written text. I'm looking forward to full-blown Chapter Tool support -- you can put in links, photos, maps, etc. when you create your audiobooks, even though the link viewing only works from iTunes. (The current beta release is only for Macs, but a PC version is in the works).

One final comment: you asked about gapless playback. Importing joined tracks in iTunes and using ChapterTool to navigate allows gapless playback. It's of some interest to music listeners who want to play gapless (for concerts, operas, etc.) However, it doesn't help you if you've imported in mp3 segments. For audiobooks, however, the lack of true gapless playback isn't an issue, I think. The difference is partly in the iTunes encoding of mp3 (a slight padding before and after), and the failure to make playback adjustments for this. This is noticable for music. I don't think it is a factor for audiobooks. You can test this yourself in iTunes by going to the Audio pane of your iTunes preferences, checking crossfade playback and setting the slider to 0, and then playing some of your mp3 books that break mid-sentence. If you don't hear a problem in the iTunes playback, you won't be bothered by this on your iPod.

Let us know what you finally decide.

[Vance]

I agree completely about the reader being a "make or break" factor. When I pick up a library copy of a book, I will always listen to one of the CD's first, and if the reader is good, I go ahead. There have been some I have not bothered with. I have found that the Recorded Books tends to have better readers than BOT, and Chivers readers are also very good. I have listened to all of the Spencer-read Wodehouse so many times (on cassette), I think I have them memorized!

I will definitely follow this forum regardless of which player I use, since any discussion about audiobooks is useful, and I might even be able to recommend some as well. The combination of reader to story, for example, comes to perfection with Patrick Tull's reading of the Aubrey-Maturin books (Master and Commander, et al) and Barbara Rosenblat's reading of the Amelia Peabody Series. And anything George Guidall reads is worthwhile just for his interpretation.

Thanks for the tip about the gapless. The cases where it will be an issue are not many, but when it comes up, I at least know of a solution. I will be interesting to see whether it will make sense for me to switch over to the MP4 for the chapter/tool, or whether it works fine the way it is.

I was thinking that one downside to doing the dynamic playlists is that I often listen as I am going to sleep and what would happen would be that it would delete tracks that completed after I fell asleep, but before the sleep timer finished! Am I right about that?

BTW, if you live in any kind of urban area, you might consider visiting other libraries as well!

[moriond]

Originally posted by Vance

I was thinking that one downside to doing the dynamic playlists is that I often listen as I am going to sleep and what would happen would be that it would delete tracks that completed after I fell asleep, but before the sleep timer finished! Am I right about that?
This is true :) falling asleep while listening is not taken into account.

Another reminder: for your question on watch folders, I provided a link in your "Is the iPod right for me?" thread, but you may not remember it among the many posts you've read. This was from Code Monkey's post (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=736571&#post736571) on the subject:

A work around that I use is a pseudo watch folder: I have a folder named "# Done" in the iTunes library along with a .jpg inside of it. The .jpg prevents iTunes from deleting this after an update, and the name sorts to the top of the library so it's easy to find. After I'm done prepping new files for addition, I move them to the "# Done" folder. Then, within iTunes I just hist alt-F -> D -> return. That adds the last folder I added (which is always "# Done"). It then scans "# Done" and moves the files to wherever they belong.


The alt-F->D-> return sequence is just the keyboard shortcut to go to the File menu, and (in iTunes), add a folder to the Library (which brings up Browse For Folder in Explorer fashion with his "# Done" folder at the head of the library). When he hits carriage return, the folder gets added, and iTunes moves the files into place.

BTW, if you live in any kind of urban area, you might consider visiting other libraries as well!
I do make use of the available libraries, but CDs have been a relatively new phenomenon. Audiotapes aren't always in good condition, and are difficult to preview (and finish before the due date -- I don't spend much time in the car, and it's harder to carry around a cassette player). I agree with the Patrick Tull/Aubrey & Maturin assessment, and also that Recorded Book readers are historically generally better than those of BOT. As a side comment, Audible has been running a 60% off (for members) sale on Recorded Books this last week. Just in case you sometime become interested in becoming a subscriber.

[Vance]

That workaround does sound like it would work for automatically loading files. What I will likely do is take a fresh approach and move over those folders I am going to load (and just not bother with deleting them afterward). I really do like being able to scroll down through my entire list of books to see what I want to add next, and then just select it and press load. But I suppose I could do such a review within the drives themselves, then drag and drop, then press load (or whatever the iTunes command is). The problem will be that I have my books spread out among a couple of different drives and another folder on my resident drive, so it makes it harder.

I think I am lucky that many of the libraries I visit have audiobook fans as librarians! To some extent I think I may have actually helped to foster this by actually talking to the head librarian over the years (of some of the smaller branches), asking what new audiobook titles were coming up, letting them know what I particularly liked, etc. Librarians don't often get much feedback from customers about what they like, so when someone is enthusiastic about something, some of them respond. I also live relatively close to a Major city with a Major library with hundreds and hundreds of audiobooks.

I actually downloaded a free sample book from Audible in the early days, and figured that when I ran out of available books, I would sign up. But so far I have built up such a collection that it will take me a long time. So, I decided to save my money for TTC lectures I particularly desire. I think Audible is a great service, though, from what I can see.

[moriond]

Originally posted by Vance
The problem will be that I have my books spread out among a couple of different drives and another folder on my resident drive, so it makes it harder.

The solution to this (for iTunes) is to set your iTunes Music Library location under the Advanced panel of your iTunes preferences (can point to that large disk that you plan to get), and then use "consolidate library" under the Advanced commands in the toolbar. If you are not using a special organization structure, checking "Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized" under the Advanced panel of the iTunes preferences may be a a good idea. This uses the Artist-Album-Disc-Track organization scheme. Under iTunes any playlists you create will automatically update if you edit any tag keywords or change the artist name, album name, etc. But that may not be the case for your present system.

All your entries will be moved to the specified default location, and the iTunes database and playlists will be adjusted accordingly.

I'm editing this, because I realize there may be a point of confusion. The pseudo-watch folder that Code Monkey is using is a solution for adding new entries to the iTunes Music Library. There is a different procedure for adding books to your iPod. And in addition to playlists, you can also use smart playlists to make playlists of playlists. For example, you could decide to load all novels by William Faulkner that you had not read in the last two years. (This is a facetious example). iTunes is really very powerful.

[Vance]

hmmm . . . So, if I set the "mega" drive as the default drive for the library, will it both move the albums that are in different locations into that mega drive, AND put all the albums already on that drive (but not yet in iTunes) into iTunes? If the latter as well, then it would seem that just pressing "consolidate" would add in any new albums added to the mega drive that I have not yet manually added to iTunes. Even if not the latter, that is still a handy way of getting the files organized.

Unfortunately, I have always organized by Album Title, so I have not been very consistent in naming the artist. So Wodehouse can be PG Wodehouse, P.G. Wodehouse and Wodehouse, PG. I might have to clean that up as well at some point.

[dordale]

I was thinking that one downside to doing the dynamic playlists is that I often listen as I am going to sleep and what would happen would be that it would delete tracks that completed after I fell asleep, but before the sleep timer finished! Am I right about that?

Vance--one thing about dynamic playlists is that the files in the playlists don't disappear from the playlist until you "exit" the playlist and play something else on your iPod. Also, the tracks don't get physically deleted from the iPod when they are removed from the playlist, so if you needed to, you could still hunt down the track by browsing through albums or artists, etc.

dordale :)

[moriond]

Well, basically even if your folders are scattered in several places, if you add these folders to the iTunes library, iTunes knows about them and sets up entries based on your tags. If you have "Copy files to iTunes Music Library when Adding to Library" checked under the Advanced panel of your iTunes preferences, then when you use "Add to Library" a copy will be made in your designated main library location, otherwise the database will store the path to entries you have added.

Consolidate only updates library database entries for things it knows about. If you started with these folders in locations x, y, and z already added to iTunes, then consolidate would move files to whereever your designated main library location is. If you additionally had folders in locations a, b, and c that had not been added to the new disk (now, the designated main library location), you could physically copy a, b, and c to your new disk, add these folders to iTunes (i.e., x, y, and z not on new disk and a, b, and c copied to tnew disk), and then "consolidate". This would put everything in your library in your new disk, with database entries for the contents of x, y, z, a, b, and c based on all your existing tags.

Entries with only a title and no artist or title will (if you allow iTunes to keep things organized) be grouped under "Unknown Artist" and then "Unknown Album". But I think you still don't appreciate how powerful iTunes is at finding and organizing things. Using the Main menu search entry allows you to "drill down" to your selection with any combination of strings that appear in any fields. You can also check what the parent folder or location is for any track. You could use a smart playlist combination, not to transfer tracks to the iPod, but simply as a set of diverse criteria to identify tracks -- by when they were added, by how recently they were played, by any comments you inserted, by the kind of file, etc. It's also really easy to correct entries, because you can use the alternate browser field of Album or Artist to see whether you have multiple entries, select all tracks meeting your search criteria, and update Artist for all your selections to the version of Artist's name that you type (e.g. search on Wodehouse and part of the title, select all entries with ctrl + a, use ctrl + i to Get Info on the entries, type 'PG Wodehouse' (or whatever you want to standardize to) and update all of these immediately. If you let iTunes manage your files, all your changes will automatically be moved from Unknown Artist into a folder "PG Wodehouse" and any references to these tracks in earlier playlists will be updated. And so forth.

Dordale is quite right about dynamically updating playlists -- you can move back to earlier entries if you haven't left the playlist. (And she does a lot of listening in the mode you use with mp3 files).

Cleaning things up is also likely to be much easier with iTunes. Oh, and dordale can probably also recommend some tagging programs. I think she liked tag 'n rename, which has a 30-day free trial. Someone else like godfather for a freeware version. You can probably get other suggestions from PC users in the forums.

[Vance]

Thanks Dordale and Meriond for helping me out with this.

OK, that sounds great about the playlist not deleting until you leave the book, that should help a LOT. But here is a hypo for you: let's say I start on track 5, and fall asleep during track 7, and it runs through 7, 8 and 9 before turning off. Now, when I wake up, I go back and find my place in track 7 and finish that track and half of 8 before switching to another album. Will 8 and 9 still fall off since they had been completed before? Sounds pretty specific, but that would actually happen pretty often. Either way, it is good that they would still be on the player though, since I could just go back to the Album and listen there.

Now, about the consolidation, I think I am getting it. If I had loaded the tracks into iTunes, it will physically move them to the default drive, but it will not automatically load stuff from that default drive on its own (unless I use the workaround you mentioned earlier).

I use Godfather for all my tagging and retagging, but simply never bother with genre and am very inconsistent with artist. And I see how I could easily get all my Wodehouse, or Ellis Peters to be consistent. I have been messing around with iTunes (even without an iPod, since I want to work with podcasts some even now) and I am getting what you mean.

Here is another question about dynamic playlists. I created a new Dynamic Playlist in iTunes for Annals of the King (Tolkein) and told it to "update" (or some similar phrase) in the options. Then I played the first track and let it move on to the second. But the first was still there in the playlist, and I had expected it to disappear. Should it have? I left the playlist and went back, but it was still there.

And another question: as fellow audiobook listeners, you know how often we have to pause and start again as we are out and about, and how often we have to go back a bit to catch something we missed. My Karma has an actual scroll wheel on the top corner and the pause/play is a small nubby "stick", so these are VERY easy to access blindly in a pocket for a quick stop or to roll back a few seconds. How easy is this with the iPod's controls when it is still in your pocket or "blindly" while you are driving?

See what happens when you start answering questions, you just get more!! :0)

[moriond]

Originally posted by Vance
Thanks Dordale and Meriond for helping me out with this.
But here is a hypo for you: let's say I start on track 5, and fall asleep during track 7, and it runs through 7, 8 and 9 before turning off. Now, when I wake up, I go back and find my place in track 7 and finish that track and half of 8 before switching to another album. Will 8 and 9 still fall off since they had been completed before? Sounds pretty specific, but that would actually happen pretty often. Either way, it is good that they would still be on the player though, since I could just go back to the Album and listen there.

I'm going to let dordale answer this one definitively, since I think she's more experienced with this, but I think the answer is yes, once you leave the playlist and the condition you used for including the tracks is accomplished (i.e., their playcount has incremented), they won't be on the playlist. They'll still be on your iPod, so you can search for them under Album and play 8 and 9 there, then go back to the smart playlist.

Now, about the consolidation, I think I am getting it. If I had loaded the tracks into iTunes, it will physically move them to the default drive, but it will not automatically load stuff from that default drive on its own (unless I use the workaround you mentioned earlier).

There are a couple of different options that affect this, but the basic thing about consolidation is that it will move all your tracks to one place -- your designated default music directory.

Since you are starting with tracks outside of iTunes, you can either choose to have tracks copied to the default iTunes directory when they're added or you can just add their locations. This might make a difference because, if you choose to let iTunes organize your music ("Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized"), it will rename folders to follow the Artist - Album -Disc and Track hierarchy. For example, let's say you have "Code of the Woosters" with no Album title, a few tracks with Artist "Wodehouse" and others with no Artist, and tracks labelled Code_of_the_Woosters_001.mp3, _002.mp3, _003.mp3 ....
_999.mp3. You have this under a Folder "Jeeves" with a subfolder "19xx" (whatever year it was written -- because you're a fanatic about chronology). These folders are not in your default Music Directory. You have chosen to "Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized" and add these folders to the library. If you have checked "Copy Files to iTunes Music Folder when Adding to Library" then the folders will be copied into your default iTunes Music Directory folder and will be changed to the Artist - Album - Trackname hierarchy because you are keeping the iTunes music folder organized. The original folders will still be in their original location, with their names unchanged. Your new folders in your default Music directory will have some entries under "Unknown Artist" and some under "Wodehouse". Under these folders you will have folders named "Unknown Album", and Under these you have entries Code_of_the _Woosters_001.mp3 etc. scattered between the directories.

You could fix this immediately in your iTunes library by choosing all these tracks by typing "Woosters" (I'm assuming that nothing else you've added to the library has that word as part of the name). You select all entries that show up under this criterion with ctrl +a. You then type ctrl +i to bring up the information about these entries. If you type in "Code of the Woosters" under the Album and "P.G. Wodehouse" under the Artist and commit these answers, all your tracks now have this Album name and Artist Name. In your Music Library there is now a folder "P.G. Wodehouse"; under it there is a single folder "Code of the Woosters", and this folder has all the entries Code_of_the_Woosters_xxx.mp3, and the "Unknown Artist" and "Unknown Album" folders have either disappeared (if everything else you added had Authors and Album titles) or, if you still have such folders, all the Code of the Wooster tracks have disappeared from them. Meanwhile, back in your original directory, you still have whatever organization (or lack thereof) and file names you started with. Because you used the "Copy Files to iTunes Music Folder" option, iTunes reorganzied the local copy, and is using that in its database. If you did not have the "Copy" options on, and still asked to "Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized" it would have renamed your folders that said "19xx" etc. If you did not have the "Copy" options on, and unchecked "Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized" you would have had database entries to these tracks, but nothing would have been renamed, and the tracks and folders would have remained outside your default iTunes Music Folder.

You can add folders to your library from any location (they can already be in the default directory, even if information about these tracks is not yet in the Music Library Database), and you can do this with or without copying to the default iTunes Music Folder (a non-event if the files are already there), and with or without the option to keep the Music Folder Organized (which uses the outlined Artist-Album-Song(or Track)name naming hierarchy).

I use Godfather for all my tagging and retagging, but simply never bother with genre and am very inconsistent with artist. And I see how I could easily get all my Wodehouse, or Ellis Peters to be consistent. I have been messing around with iTunes (even without an iPod, since I want to work with podcasts some even now) and I am getting what you mean.
You probably want to fix tagging before you add all your folders, but you only really need to take care of Album and tracks (or enough to distinguish these files), and you can put in the Artist name in iTunes. (I think that all works). An easy way to see whether you have more than one name is to start typing your selection (e.g. "Wooster"), open the browse window (ctrl + b with your cursor on the top bar of the main iTunes menu section) and look under Albums and Artists to see whether there are multiple entries


Here is another question about dynamic playlists. I created a new Dynamic Playlist in iTunes for Annals of the King (Tolkein) and told it to "update" (or some similar phrase) in the options. Then I played the first track and let it move on to the second. But the first was still there in the playlist, and I had expected it to disappear. Should it have? I left the playlist and went back, but it was still there.

What you checked was "live updating". If you had a condition like "Date added is after 1/04/06" and continued to add files today and tomorrow, tomorrow the smart playlist would contain everything you entered that day as well as today. "Live updating" means that iTunes continues to apply these criteria to what goes into the smart playlist, even if you don't go back to edit it. For example, you could use the date criteria to decide what goes into your next incremental backup.

In your example, unless you had a smart playlist condition like "Album contains Annals of the King" and "playcount is 0" (assuming that you hadn't played any of these tracks -- not true now), you wouldn't see a change as you played through the tracks. What happens there is that initially all tracks in the Album are unplayed, so they're all in the playlist. After you listen to track 1 its playcount is 1 -- it no longer matches the condition for inclusion in the playlist. Live updating is on, so as the playcounts increment, these tracks drop off the playlist. (You could change the condition to playcount is less than 2 if you've listened to some of these once and want to listen again and see whether they drop off the list).

And another question: as fellow audiobook listeners, you know how often we have to pause and start again as we are out and about, and how often we have to go back a bit to catch something we missed. My Karma has an actual scroll wheel on the top corner and the pause/play is a small nubby "stick", so these are VERY easy to access blindly in a pocket for a quick stop or to roll back a few seconds. How easy is this with the iPod's controls when it is still in your pocket or "blindly" while you are driving?

See what happens when you start answering questions, you just get more!! :0)
I think this is easy, but it depends a bit on the model. I haven't played enough with the 5G to answer you. (I'm used to the 3G and iPod Shuffle, which have a different interface. The Shuffle is very simple. The 5G might be less convenient than the Karma.

[jemm]

Wow lots of useful information here. I hope you do decide to get an iPod Vance. I've definitely found problems with using audiobooks with it but so many other things are a plus.

With regards to going back to a few seconds earlier, when you've missed a bit in the story - this often happens with me. I think the ease of doing this depends on the case you buy. Consider spending a decent amount to get a case that will allow you the access you want easily enough, so not a case where you have to open it up to get to your iPod.


On a completely different note, I'm now getting confused about CD number and track number. I imported a 2-CD audiobook and combined the files from each CD into 2 tracks on each, so 4 tracks in total. So I put in CD 1of 2 or CD 2of2 accordingly. But then should the track numbering begin again for the second CD? I numbered the tracks 1-4 for episodes 1-4 but then realised this was probably wrong. I don't mind too much I'm just being pedantic.

And something else I'm wondering about copyright stuff - someone mentioned it above. I've recently got CDs out of the library of tapes that I already have. So I got the Hitchhiker's guide which I have the same copy on tape. And I won't lie I ripped it to my PC. Is this still illegal? I still own the tapes and in theory could have converted them to digital. But should I get rid of these files to be on the safe side and try and convert to digital myself?

Anyway, thanks for all this advice everyone on these boards, please keep it coming - i'm enjoying being a member.

[Vance]

Moriond,

I think I have it now. I thought that the consolidation actually "cut and pasted" not just "copy and pasted". One the one hand this is good since it leaves your original formatting intact, but on the other, it sounds like it could seriously double up on space needed, unless you assign the default to where you keep most of the tracks.

And, on the playlist, I had not set the number of plays at all. I will check that out again.

Thanks again for all your help.

[moriond]

Originally posted by jemm
On a completely different note, I'm now getting confused about CD number and track number. I imported a 2-CD audiobook and combined the files from each CD into 2 tracks on each, so 4 tracks in total. So I put in CD 1of 2 or CD 2of2 accordingly. But then should the track numbering begin again for the second CD? I numbered the tracks 1-4 for episodes 1-4 but then realised this was probably wrong. I don't mind too much I'm just being pedantic.

You may have been confused by my example, jemm, because I wasn't sure how Vance originally tagged the mp3 files he ripped and how he organized the folders.

Adding to Library vs. Importing

First of all, if you're putting tracks into iTunes by ripping CDs, they always show up in your designated main music library. But if the tracks are already on some device attached to your computer, either because you ripped CDs with another software program, or because you downloaded an audio book from Audible or the iTunes Music Store, or because you're trying to transfer files using a flash drive that you just inserted into your USB port, then these tracks are already "on your system" (or on a device at least momentarily attached to your system) -- they're just not in your iTunes Library.

The other thing that's different about starting off with files ripped with another application is that the tagging information is already present, and if you let iTunes organize your library it will use this information to do it. So the file names and structures that you start with depend on the application you used to rip (Music Man Jukebox, etc.), how you've organized your folders, or how your download source has organized the files you're getting. After you've added these files to iTunes (if it's organizing your library), the structure depends on Artist, Album, track, and disc information from the tags.

Import your Audio CDs. As part of the importing process you'll be prompted to supply tag information -- at minimum names for the tracks. Use Add to Library for other data files on your system that you want to put in your iTunes Library. This includes files ripped by 3rd party apps, mp3 downloads you've purchased, mp3 CDs either purchased or burned from iTunes, data CDs/DVDs burned from iTunes, Audible audiobook files you're transferring from your library on another machine, audio files you've recorded, etc. If there's no tag information, iTunes will just use the name of the file for the Song name and all the other fields will be blank.

File Names in iTunes - When are they renamed?

If you have both "Copy files to iTunes Music Folder when adding to library" and "Keep iTunes Music folder organized" checked as Advanced preference options for iTunes, then folder organization will be Artist -> Album -> tracks. When you Add to Library iTunes keeps a copy of these files in its Music Library. Only files in the iTunes Music Library database that are also in the Music Library Folder will be renamed and reorganized to match the Artist-> Album scheme, and then only if this "Copy files to iTunes Music Folder when adding to library" option is checked. So if you don't want iTunes to reorganize your folders, keep this option box unchecked on the Advanced Preference panel.

In addition to using the Artist / Album hierarchy, when iTunes manages your music naming and organization (i.e., when the "Copy files to iTunes Music Folder . . ." option is checked), the file names match the track (song) names you enter in the database. So if you previously had a track named "Mary Had a Little Lamb.mp3" with an mp3 tag identifying the title as "Nightmare On Elm Street" having iTunes set the title in its database to "Nightmare On Elm Street" would change the file name to "Nightmare On Elm Street.mp3". Furthermore, if you had "Keep iTunes Music folder organized" checked as well as "Copy files to iTunes Music Folder . . .", and checked that this was track 1, a "01" prefix would be added to the filename: "01 Nightmare . . . ". If you checked that this was from disc #1 of 2 discs, the prefix would become "1-01 Nightmare . . ."

So in the example you gave, with 4 episodes on 2 CDs (2 per CD), importing from audio CDs the tracks would automatically be number 1 of 2 and 2 of 2 on each disc. You could have made the first CD disc number 1 of 2 and the second CD disc number 2 of 2. Let's say the 4 episodes are "Spring", "Summer", "Autumn", and "Winter" from an Album named "The Four Seasons" by Artist "Antonio Vivaldi". As you've described it, importing from the 2 CDs would put these episodes under "Antonio Vivaldi" (Artist) -> "The Four Seasons" (Album) -> "1-01 Spring", "1-02 Summer", "2-01 Autumn", "2-02 Winter". I suspect that you're importing from mp3 CDs, so this automatic numbering doesn't really apply -- you could number this any way you wanted. If you treat Disc number and Track number as just organizational information, you can edit the iTunes data so that each episode is one of "4 tracks" and ignore the fact that there are 2 CDs. The episodes will get numbered "01 Spring" "02 Summer" "03 Autumn" "04 Winter" in that case.

Originally posted by Vance
I thought that the consolidation actually "cut and pasted" not just "copy and pasted". One the one hand this is good since it leaves your original formatting intact, but on the other, it sounds like it could seriously double up on space needed, unless you assign the default to where you keep most of the tracks.
Here (http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/tip.html) is Apple's description of what "Consolidate Library" does. The earlier discussion in this post points out a couple of things. First, Vance, you'd do well to clean up iD tags (at least for Artist and Album) before adding your files to iTunes. If your tags are clean and you let iTunes manage your Library, if you put files in the location of your iTunes Music Library before doing "Add to Library" you won't be taking up any additional space or have multiple copies. You will, however, have your folders and files renamed according to your tags.

Secondly, if you start with mp3 CDs what happens when you generate playlists depends on the completeness of the tag information and what has been entered. On multiple volume mp3 CD sets if each track is simply labeled by number, there should by somethingthat allows you to keep track of which disc# is which for generating playlists. Either that, or you need to enter this as you import the CDs.

Originally posted by jemm
And something else I'm wondering about copyright stuff - someone mentioned it above. I've recently got CDs out of the library of tapes that I already have. So I got the Hitchhiker's guide which I have the same copy on tape. And I won't lie I ripped it to my PC. Is this still illegal? I still own the tapes and in theory could have converted them to digital. But should I get rid of these files to be on the safe side and try and convert to digital myself?
This varies a lot with country and the interpretation of what constitutes "Fair Use". In Australia it's illegal to rip music for personal playing from CDs that you own. It's unlikely that you would be ever be prosecuted for this, so this is more an ethical issue. I've also ripped a library CD copy of an audiobook that I own on tape. (Both CD and audiotape versions have been out of print for some time, and digital copies of the book are not available). I would otherwise have digitized the book from tape, which I still keep. YMMV on these decisions.

[dordale]

But here is a hypo for you: let's say I start on track 5, and fall asleep during track 7, and it runs through 7, 8 and 9 before turning off. Now, when I wake up, I go back and find my place in track 7 and finish that track and half of 8 before switching to another album. Will 8 and 9 still fall off since they had been completed before? Sounds pretty specific, but that would actually happen pretty often. Either way, it is good that they would still be on the player though, since I could just go back to the Album and listen there.

Vance--

Just to verify--Moriond is right. Once you leave a playlist, the files would be deleted from it. The only way to listen to these files would be to browse to the files through the menu as you suggest. This doesn't happen to me too much, though and I do listen to my books on my iPod when I'm falling asleep.



And another question: as fellow audiobook listeners, you know how often we have to pause and start again as we are out and about, and how often we have to go back a bit to catch something we missed. My Karma has an actual scroll wheel on the top corner and the pause/play is a small nubby "stick", so these are VERY easy to access blindly in a pocket for a quick stop or to roll back a few seconds. How easy is this with the iPod's controls when it is still in your pocket or "blindly" while you are driving?

I'll agree with Moriond on this one as well. It's easy to move back and forth in audio book files on the iPod. I haven't used a Karma, so I don't know how they would compare. On the iPods (both my 3g and my new X-mas 5g-video :D ) with one tap of the center button, the volume scroll wheel turns into a fast forward/rewind wheel that allows you to move easily backward and forward in files.

Good luck--
dordale :)

[robert]

Originally posted by dordale
Vance--
....

I'll agree with Moriond on this one as well. It's easy to move back and forth in audio book files on the iPod. I haven't used a Karma, so I don't know how they would compare. On the iPods (both my 3g and my new X-mas 5g-video :D ) with one tap of the center button, the volume scroll wheel turns into a fast forward/rewind wheel that allows you to move easily backward and forward in files.

Good luck--
dordale :)

Agree, the solution dordale suggests is MUCH better than |<< or >>|. Those two buggers will easily put you to beginning of book or end of book, or next book with the playcount taking it out of playlist. Least that is the way it works best for me.

Congrats on the 5G, dordale! I loved showing off pictures at New Years Party on my 5G. Some guy asked how many pictures it would hold, with tone that suggested a dozen or so. His jaw dropped when I told him 25,000. I could get my entire audio book collection, all my music and still have room for 10,000 photos. In preparing my old 4G for sale on ebay, I took it out of its iSkin to find that the accumulated dirt inside the case scratched and mottled it and immediately remembered that you garden with something other than your iPod. Now I know why. In future I will take out of case and wash case and clean iPod to prevent repeat. Mother's Plastic Polish (front), and Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish (rear) topped off with Meguiar's Scratch X has pretty well solved the problem. I should have cleaned iPod with alchohol wipes before buffing. I had some buffing scratches to get out.

[Vance]

Dordale and Robert:

Thanks for the additional thoughts on the input issues. I think I will have to borrow one from a friend and just mess with for a day and see. I am resigned to the fact that it will be a bit more work to press the middle button and "scrub" back a bit than just roll my Karma's wheel back, so I can only be pleasantly surprised!