How to get quality sound from Hifi System?

[hamiltoton]

I own b&w 20 GB ipod (dont know what generation it is bught it 1 year ago) and want to plug it in my Hifi Sound system (Arcam amp with Spendor Audio speakers) at home.

I know I will never get the great sound that I get from my CD's or LP's but just can't get away from the easily transportable device holding over 1700 songs! I usually get songs from the web at over 192 kbps.

Does anybody know which dock and cable will give me the best sounding music. I hear that Naim produces a docking station with power source that eliminates unwanted noizes, etc...Is there any other Hifi brands that offer docking stations like Linn, Arcam, etc? What about the cables? Monster is ok, what about Chord company or something else than Monster? Anybody with suggestions?

thanks for all
DH

that new arcade fire EP is rockin'

[pdp76]

Originally posted by hamiltoton
I own b&w 20 GB ipod (dont know what generation it is bught it 1 year ago) and want to plug it in my Hifi Sound system (Arcam amp with Spendor Audio speakers) at home.

I know I will never get the great sound that I get from my CD's or LP's but just can't get away from the easily transportable device holding over 1700 songs! I usually get songs from the web at over 192 kbps.

Does anybody know which dock and cable will give me the best sounding music. I hear that Naim produces a docking station with power source that eliminates unwanted noizes, etc...Is there any other Hifi brands that offer docking stations like Linn, Arcam, etc? What about the cables? Monster is ok, what about Chord company or something else than Monster? Anybody with suggestions?

thanks for all
DH

that new arcade fire EP is rockin'
A line-out adapter is a line-out adapter. All it does it connect some of the pins on the bottom of your iPod to your home stereo. As for line out solutions that are powered and do a degree of massaging of the sound signal (like the Naim one you mentioned) I personally don't think that is necessary, it's just "corrupting" the sound IMO. Unless you get a line out adapter that is of REALLY bad quality, you should not get any noise to begin with. I have the SiK IMP and it works great, there are other simple line out solutions like this as well. In the end, it's really the HiFi amplifier which you connect the iPod to that will make the biggest difference in sound.

[claud]

I just bought a Mini 6gb to test sound and auto apps. There is a review of the new Photo and 6gig Mini on 6Moons, an audiofile website. The reviewer found that with the right AAC320 file system or the Apple Lossless the ipods can sound very nice. He tried a $350 Crystal Cable interconnect from the Dock to his stereo system, and it was a great improvement over the Monster. After ordering my Mini the other day, I began searching for the ipod interconnect at other reputable audiophile cable companies. I ordered a set from Boulder Cable for $150. Kimber had three different ones. It can only be two things that influence the sound of an ipod, cables and file selection.

[Phased]

I don’t buy the cable upgrade for one second. I have seen tests where people literally claim they hear a difference in a blind cable test when actually the cables were never even changed. I would bet money there is no audible difference from that 20 dollar monster thing to kimber or that 350 waste of money. All a cable is designed to do is prevent degrading and resistance. The best way to improve a cable simply to shorten it.

The ipod is already a lousy audio source with audible distortion in much of the midrange. That 350 bucks would have been better spent on a soundcard for a computer, then skip the whole ipod idea.

claud, I hate to put it this way, but you bought a 150 dollar cable for an audio source that is comparable to a 16 dollar soundcard. Do you relize how, im sorry to say it, but stupid that is?

That’s like putting Formula one racing wheels on tricycle

[claud]

Sorry you fell that way Phased. A lot of people have the same opinion. I did not take the IPod seriously for years. It is only recently that audiophiles have been checking them out and discovering that using the Lossless or AAC 320 files that the pod can actually sound decent as a source. The more you compress your file, the crappier the sound. Do not use the headphone out connection unless you don't have a choice like in a car or for headphones, use the dock or other bottom connector line out.
If you have a decent source, you need decent cables to transmit the sound. I have used Boulder Cables in my Cary/Merlin tube system. They are damn good for the $$. I found another post on this site from another Boulder user that was happy with them connecting his Pod to his system too. If you read the 6Mooms review, you might get some ideas about improving the sound of your own Pod.

[endo5]

Can you give me info on the boulder cables? Or any other cables to connect line out from the i-pod to home stereo?

[claud]

If you go to the Audio Circles forum, you will see a seperate forum for Boulder Cables. There is also a link to Boulder. Kimber also makes three grades of the mini to RCAs cable. Moon Cable makes some too.

[thedodgyguy]

I think above $200 or so there is no real improvement in cables that are worth bothering with, unless the rest of your system is that "last 1%" type of set-up. Certain types of cables are excluded from this, because they shape the sound in certain ways without affecting the integrity of the signal in any way... and that's a plus. But those are big bucks and frankly not worth it either.


Even within that remit, some companies can't get it right. I had a $200 headphone cable made up for use with the iPod and my Qualia headphones. It measures only marginally (and we are talking really marginal) better than the cable from a freebie earphone (and the freebie earphone cable is MUCH more practical for iPod use)... and in fact slightly worse than the AC power cord that came with one of my PSU's. To add insult to injury, they couldn't build it properly and I had to get different guys to fix it... and the headphone cable made as a joke out of AC cord is still better.


The results are audible too. The litz cable of the freebie cable rounds out the sound and gives a pleasant (and admittedly slightly detrimental) warmth to the sound which I like regardless of the tradeoffs. The AC cable sounds just like it measures... straightforward and true. the $200 cable sounds metallic and rough (although some might say that is 'forward sounding' and praise it).


I don't subscribe to the 'cables don't make a difference' crowd, but I do subscribe to the 'there's a lot of BS in cables' crowd. There's a difference between the two crowds :D Eventually I developed a cable which I liked, a combination of technical accuracy, reasonable practicality and a good tone (took rather more than $200 to develop, but hey it was fun punching my way past the BS). However I still find myself using the freebie cable quite often.


I use $1,800/meter interconnects at home, mainly nowadays because it's very pretty and looks impressive. I could just as well use more ergular IC's I have but then it wouldn't look as impressive. There's something very manly about garden-hose sized cables snaking around the back of your stereo, not to mention it's a sight with comedy value I don't get tired of to have your headphone amplifier suspended in mid-air by the sheer stiffness of the interconnect :p Comparing blind between it and a properly-made $200/meter cable in a $20K Transport > $20K DAC > $16K preamp > $35K poweramp > $30K speaker set-up (leaving aside whether those are worth it), I can't discern a technical improvement.


The $89 Zu Pivot (www.zucable.com) Mini-RCA cable is probably the most extravagant cable I'd consider for the iPod's dock. I'm kind of halfway between claud and Phased in this respect as I happen to think the iPod is a very respectable source for what it is (fully portable, yet dockable) and deserves a half-decent back-end if you're using it at home. Cablewise, no point in going overboard I think, but as with the Zu recommendation just get something decent. What you're effectively paying for in this case is more the assurance of a decent level of workmanship, more than absolute quality. The standard dock will do fine.


These days I don't use the iPod docked or amped at all, preferring to power the reasonably efficient Sony Qualia 010 directly from the headphone socket, but I have in the past connected it up to various set-ups and been very pleasantly surprised.

[endo5]

Sorry for the newbie question, but is there an advantage to using the line out vs the headphone jack for connection to home audio equip? I don't want to continually be adjusting the i-pod volume to make the home amplifier sound correct at different volume levels. Sounds like you are using headphone jack solely, do you set volume at max on the i-pod to do that?

[pdp76]

Originally posted by endo5
Sorry for the newbie question, but is there an advantage to using the line out vs the headphone jack for connection to home audio equip? I don't want to continually be adjusting the i-pod volume to make the home amplifier sound correct at different volume levels. Sounds like you are using headphone jack solely, do you set volume at max on the i-pod to do that?
Generally speaking, line-out outputs tend to have less noise because they don't go through another amplification stage that the headphone out goes through (to control headphone volume). This goes for iPods and other devices as well. Therefore, line-outs, again generally speaking, don't have volume control (one exception that comes to mind is a car stereo).

So if you don't want to continually adjust the volume on the iPod and let your receiver do the volume adjustment, go with the line out.

In my initial test, the headphone output at max volume is just a tiny bit louder than the line-out.

[claud]

With the line out, you bypass the built in headphone amp of the iPod. Using my Lexus car stereo with a Sony cassette converter in to the headphone jack of my 6G Mini, I could easilly tell that the higher the volume of the Mini, the more distortion. I hit a reasonable compromise at 2/3 volume on the Mini. I now have a Pocket Dock and will try the line out this weekend. Got my Boulder Cable and hooked the Mini/PocketDock to my Cary tube/Merlin TSM-MM stereo tonight. Sounded even better than expected. This is with no eq and using ACC320 . It was a little shy of bass, but dynamic with a decent soundstage.

[thedodgyguy]

A cassette adapter? You haven't got the dealers to plumb you in a line out?


And as long as you're dealing with a line-level input (i.e. 10Kohm input impedance) try an audio switcher between the headphone out (set to 90% or so volume) and the line out. The results might surprise you.