Audi a bad car?

[pyroboy145]

The other day I was chatting with my friend about getting an Audi for my first car cuz they really aren't all that expensive. He told me that his aunt has spent more on repairs for her audi than she did actually paying for the car. I just figured it was a lemon, it happens. Apparently he says that Audi is nutorious for problems with their cars. Can anyone confirm this? I read something about some issues with the ignitions (recall) and some gauge issues (from what I saw that was only once.) Can anyone confirm or give me a link with a news story about this issue? I am very interested in an Audi since they are in my price range for around year 2000.

[Verita']

One of my cars is an 2003 All-Road Quattro 4.2 and my brother has 2004 S4, neither have had any problems. Audi's made from 2000 on are much better than the older models, I think that most people who encounter problems (especially in Audi, Mercedes Benz and BMW) are due to the owner not taking proper care of the vehicle. High performance cars need higher maintainence.

I don't know what your exact price range is or what models you're intrested in, but I'd also look at Subaru... they're cheaper, more reliable, on par with Audi in performance and luxury (save the A8 models), less maintainence, and similar models have close to the same specs. I have an STI that when stock killed my brother's S4 (boxer 4 vs V8), I'll be buying the 2006 STI when that comes out, and I love the Outbacks as well (basicly an STI in the body of a wagon/SUV).

[pyroboy145]

I was quite interested in a 2000 through 2001 Audi since they are rought 15 to 20 K.

How much maintinence do Audi really take?

Please tell me you are reffering to the Impreza? I am not a big fan of the other cars in the subaru line.

[SDA]

Ooh, can of worms. Sort of. I guess these aren't car forums.

Audi (actually most European luxury) cars are generally (there are exceptions!) notorious for the amount of minor repairs they need. They don't have horrible reliability issues (you know, the exploding engine nonsense some people are afraid of), but the little things are irritating and add up.

This reputation is only partly deserved ("mostly" in the case of Mercedes, but we're not talking about them). The big issue is that Audis (et al) need more regular maintenance than the average Japanese evercar. If you do not take good care of your car (and I don't just mean change the oil every X miles), you will have serious repair bills to worry about. Otherwise, they're only a very minor to moderate annoyance (depending on model and luck)

I'll say this: if you get a five-year-old Audi, you're going to be spending a lot on repairs over a relatively short period of time. If you want luxury on the cheap, there are better options. There are lots of good, reasonably priced, highly reliable (meaning pretty much care-free) Japanese evercars out there. I'm not going to make any further recommendations, because everyone has their favorites, but you do have tons of good choices.

I really don't know where I'd be without parentheses.

[pyroboy145]

lol parentheses really do help don't they.

What type of Japanese or Euro car companies are you refurring too (sorry I am not up to par with where all the cars are made. I pretty much know Ferrari, Mercedez and thats about it)?

What exactly is a Japenese evercar?

Thanks for your guy's help. I am looking for something that will be quite comfortable with enough power to keep me satisfied. My father's Camaro RS has plenty of power for me, but it seems to be lacking somewhat on comfort (mostly cuz I am 6 foot 3 at 15)

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
I was quite interested in a 2000 through 2001 Audi since they are rought 15 to 20 K.

How much maintinence do Audi really take?

Please tell me you are reffering to the Impreza? I am not a big fan of the other cars in the subaru line.

Yea, the Subaru Impreza WRX STI, or "STI" for short.

Downside to a 2000 or 2001 Audi is that you don't know exactly how well it was cared for, and any maintainence will cost twice at much as a Subaru. Audi's are high-performance luxury cars, they do require more work than a Honda or Toyota, but I wouldn't call it excessive. If you can do the most common (and most easy) stuff like oil, plugs, air/oil filters, fuel, you'll save a lot of $$$ and headaches. I've owned Porsche's, Mercedes Benz, BMW's, Land Rovers and I'd say Audi is the easiest to maintain and along with Porsche, the most reliable.

I don't know your needs/wants, but personally for the money I'd go with an Acura or Subaru.

[pyroboy145]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Verita'
Yea, the Subaru Impreza WRX STI, or "STI" for short.

Downside to a 2000 or 2001 Audi is that you don't know exactly how well it was cared for, and any maintainence will cost twice at much as a Subaru. Audi's are high-performance luxury cars, they do require more work than a Honda or Toyota, but I wouldn't call it excessive. If you can do the most common (and most easy) stuff like oil, plugs, air/oil filters, fuel, you'll save a lot of $$$ and headaches. I've owned Porsche's, Mercedes Benz, BMW's, Land Rovers and I'd say Audi is the easiest to maintain and along with Porsche, the most reliable.

I don't know your needs/wants, but personally for the money I'd go with an Acura or Subaru. [/QUOT

The only STIs I have really seen have been in the upper 20s. Another thing will be stick shift. I have no experience with them. My parents never really used them either, so I really have no clue about them. Is there any information that you can give about stick shifts that would make my life easier if I were to have one?

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
lol parentheses really do help don't they.

What type of Japanese or Euro car companies are you refurring too (sorry I am not up to par with where all the cars are made. I pretty much know Ferrari, Mercedez and thats about it)?

What exactly is a Japenese evercar?

Thanks for your guy's help. I am looking for something that will be quite comfortable with enough power to keep me satisfied. My father's Camaro RS has plenty of power for me, but it seems to be lacking somewhat on comfort (mostly cuz I am 6 foot 3 at 15)

Japanese cars (worth considering):

Toyota/Lexus
Honda/Acura
Nissan/Infinity
Subaru

Are you looking for a sports car, an SUV, a sport sedan?

[pyroboy145]

I am mainly interested in a sport sedan. Basically my main beef is that it needs to be packing some punch (preferably a v6, since v8 will kill the gas milage) and that I need to fit. My father's Camaro is a bit short on leg room on the driver's side, but is liveable.

I take that back about the STI, I just checked out Ebay and there are more STI for around 20k than I thought.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Verita'
Yea, the Subaru Impreza WRX STI, or "STI" for short.

Downside to a 2000 or 2001 Audi is that you don't know exactly how well it was cared for, and any maintainence will cost twice at much as a Subaru. Audi's are high-performance luxury cars, they do require more work than a Honda or Toyota, but I wouldn't call it excessive. If you can do the most common (and most easy) stuff like oil, plugs, air/oil filters, fuel, you'll save a lot of $$$ and headaches. I've owned Porsche's, Mercedes Benz, BMW's, Land Rovers and I'd say Audi is the easiest to maintain and along with Porsche, the most reliable.

I don't know your needs/wants, but personally for the money I'd go with an Acura or Subaru. [/QUOT

The only STIs I have really seen have been in the upper 20s. Another thing will be stick shift. I have no experience with them. My parents never really used them either, so I really have no clue about them. Is there any information that you can give about stick shifts that would make my life easier if I were to have one?


Here's the model just below the STI, about $25,000 MSRP for a 2005 (retail will be several grand cheaper), a new 2003 or 2004 would be around $18,000-$20,000. These things will perform on par with a $55,000 BMW M3 and a $47,000 Audi S4! The regular WRX is available in manual or automatic as well. Stick isn't really hard to drive, it does require a bit more effort than automatic, you can go to an empty parkinglot and practice for a few hours and you'll be good to go, you can even practice going through the gears while just sitting in the parked car, just remember your CLUTCH! The WRX has a racing cluch which is very crisp and short which is actually easier (IMO) than the average clutch.

[SDA]

What exactly is a Japenese evercar?
Eh, evercar is a word I use for cars that don't seem to need much in the way of repairs even if the owner doesn't know how to take care of them. One good example would be the early-to-mid 1990s Honda Accords that are still all over the roads despite age and mistreatment.


I don't know your needs/wants, but personally for the money I'd go with an Acura or Subaru.
Seconded. Depending on his exact needs, I'd say the Acura recommendation is worth extending to including certain Honda-branded models, and Nissan (both brands, but Infiniti is probably a little out of reach) is supposed to have some interesting offerings.


I take that back about the STI, I just checked out Ebay and there are more STI for around 20k than I thought.
One thing worth worrying about: how hard do you think the last owners drove them? They're certainly very reliable cars, I'm just advising caution.


Stick isn't really hard to drive,
That it isn't, but if you do mainly city driving you will probably want to shoot yourself after a while. The procedure does become automatic (har har) after a time, though.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
I am mainly interested in a sport sedan. Basically my main beef is that it needs to be packing some punch (preferably a v6, since v8 will kill the gas milage) and that I need to fit. My father's Camaro is a bit short on leg room on the driver's side, but is liveable.

I take that back about the STI, I just checked out Ebay and there are more STI for around 20k than I thought.

Go test drive an STI, if you can get one for about 20K that's awesome! An STI will decimate a Camero, in fact a stock STI beats a Ferrari F360 (200K+) in every category except top speed, plus it's one of the few high-performance cars that's AWD. If you get the Speed channel you should watch World Rally Racing, you'll see what the STI is capable of.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
Here's the model just below the STI, about $25,000 MSRP for a 2005 (retail will be several grand cheaper), a new 2003 or 2004 would be around $18,000-$20,000. These things will perform on par with a $55,000 BMW M3 and a $47,000 Audi S4! The regular WRX is available in manual or automatic as well. Stick isn't really hard to drive, it does require a bit more effort than automatic, you can go to an empty parkinglot and practice for a few hours and you'll be good to go, you can even practice going through the gears while just sitting in the parked car, just remember your CLUTCH! The WRX has a racing cluch which is very crisp and short which is actually easier (IMO) than the average clutch.

Oh that is my mistake. On the dealer website the retail is posted. I worked out an STI (after seeing your post about your cars in the gadgets thread) and it came out to a bit over 30. Wouldn't it be very difficult to find a new 2003 or 2004? For a pricetag of 20 I would be very interested, but would need to try out manual first.

*EDIT*
According to the Subaru website the STI base MSRP is about 32.

[Verita']

That'sw another nice thing about the STI, it's meant to operate at high RPM's and with all that torque you can keep it in 2nd and 3rd for almost all city driving.

I'd check out the Acura RSX as well.

Pretty much unless you can afford something like an Audi RS6 Stufe or a Porsche 911 Turbo S ($130,000 base prices), the STI is the best car you can buy all things being considered, and it's a DAMN fun car to drive... and take it from a guy who owns or has owned BMW M5's, Porsche 911 Turbo S, Mercedes Benz E55 AMG, Brabus C55, Audi S4 /RS6/S8, and who's driven Ferrari's, Bugatti's, Lamborghini's, Astom Martin's, Maserati's and many others.

[pyroboy145]

Are there any websites to check the specs of different cars?

I am just using Ebay as an example. If I were to buy a car from someone on Ebay I would bring along one my dad's friends that knows cars. He works with people who spend a whole mess of time on their cars after work.

Chances are that I will mainly be driving on a highway (main way to stores I frequent such as Target or Best Buy.) If I were to drive into town it would be a quite short drive since my town is very small.

The only issue with testing out an STI would be that I have to travel about 20 miles to the nearest Subaru dealer which wouldn't be a problem if I were closer to my license (I am about 4 or so months away and have been driving around my dad's Camaro with my permit for about 2 and a half.)

With a manual wouldn't I have to keep my eye on teh speedometer quite often? How would I know when to switch gears. I have messed around with racing games (probably not the most accurate) and I would be at a complete loss as to when to shift if there was no indication.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
That'sw another nice thing about the STI, it's meant to operate at high RPM's and with all that torque you can keep it in 2nd and 3rd for almost all city driving.

I'd check out the Acura RSX as well.

Pretty much unless you can afford something like an Audi RS6 Stufe or a Porsche 911 Turbo S ($130,000 base prices), the STI is the best car you can buy all things being considered, and it's a DAMN fun car to drive... and take it from a guy who owns or has owned BMW M5's, Porsche 911 Turbo S, Mercedes Benz E55 AMG, Brabus C55, Audi S4 /RS6/S8, and who's driven Ferrari's, Bugatti's, Lamborghini's, Astom Martin's, Maserati's and many others.

I have been looking into an RSX actually. There is no way in hell I could afford anything over 25K, unless I want to pay until I have a good paying job (hopefully will be going into computer programming, computer maintinence, or a pscologist.)

But hey I have an idea, since you want the 2006 STI wanna let me "borrow" your 2k5? You can have all the ups back. Completly Joking!

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
Oh that is my mistake. On the dealer website the retail is posted. I worked out an STI (after seeing your post about your cars in the gadgets thread) and it came out to a bit over 30. Wouldn't it be very difficult to find a new 2003 or 2004? For a pricetag of 20 I would be very interested, but would need to try out manual first.

*EDIT*
According to the Subaru website the STI base MSRP is about 32.



Yes, but:
1) The MSRP is more than you'll pay (for any goods), retail is always lower and dealers will go even lower still to make the sale.
2) Unlike most cars, the STI is good to go as is, I doubt you'll want or need the offered upgrades. You can always upgrade stuff later.


I paid about 32K out the door after the upgrades and a wheel swap to 18".

I have some friends with STI's who are walking out at about 28-29K for the 2005 and 24K-25K for the 2004, and they're not used.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
Yes, but:
1) The MSRP is more than you'll pay (for any goods), retail is always lower and dealers will go even lower still to make the sale.
2) Unlike most cars, the STI is good to go as is, I doubt you'll want or need the offered upgrades. You can always upgrade stuff later.


I paid about 32K out the door after the upgrades and a wheel swap to 18".

I have some friends with STI's who are walking out at about 28-29K for the 2005 and 24K-25K for the 2004, and they're not used.

Are you saying that you only spent 32k on your whole car with all the upgrades or are you saying you added 32K in upgrades (WTF did you put in that thing if that is the case?)

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
Are there any websites to check the specs of different cars?

I am just using Ebay as an example. If I were to buy a car from someone on Ebay I would bring along one my dad's friends that knows cars. He works with people who spend a whole mess of time on their cars after work.

Chances are that I will mainly be driving on a highway (main way to stores I frequent such as Target or Best Buy.) If I were to drive into town it would be a quite short drive since my town is very small.

The only issue with testing out an STI would be that I have to travel about 20 miles to the nearest Subaru dealer which wouldn't be a problem if I were closer to my license (I am about 4 or so months away and have been driving around my dad's Camaro with my permit for about 2 and a half.)

With a manual wouldn't I have to keep my eye on teh speedometer quite often? How would I know when to switch gears. I have messed around with racing games (probably not the most accurate) and I would be at a complete loss as to when to shift if there was no indication.


In racing cars (which the STI is) you'll have a very large tachometer right next to the speedometer which measures the engines RPM's for each gear, in fact many racing cars have the tachometer as the predominant guage. Look at your dad's Camero, have him show you the tach. Once you get the hang of a manuel (every car has different ratios) you probably wont need to even look at the tachometer, you can just listen to the engine and "feel" the amount of power you're getting. As you drive you'll hear the engine make a higher pitched sound as you accelerate, if you go too high you are "red-lining" which is marked my the red area on the tachometer. As long as you shift to the next highest gear before you hit the red line (usually around 7000 RPM's on most cars) you'll be fine. Shifting in a video game is actuall pretty accurate, it's usually "paddle shift" which is the ultimate shifting method, but the physicis are the same as on a car. If you can shift well in a video game or on a bike, you won't have too much trouble in a car, stick shift is really much easier than it's made out to be.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
In racing cars (which the STI is) you'll have a very large tachometer right next to the speedometer which measures the engines RPM's for each gear, in fact many racing cars have the tachometer as the predominant guage. Look at your dad's Camero, have him show you the tach. Once you get the hang of a manuel (every car has different ratios) you probably wont need to even look at the tachometer, you can just listen to the engine and "feel" the amount of power you're getting. As you drive you'll hear the engine make a higher pitched sound as you accelerate, if you go too high you are "red-lining" which is marked my the red area on the tachometer. As long as you shift to the next highest gear before you hit the red line (usually around 7000 RPM's on most cars) you'll be fine. Shifting in a video game is actuall pretty accurate, it's usually "paddle shift" which is the ultimate shifting method, but the physicis are the same as on a car. If you can shift well in a video game or on a bike, you won't have too much trouble in a car, stick shift is really much easier than it's made out to be.

Is the tachometer on all cars? Or am I just unsure of the name of the gauge? Is the tachometer the gauge with the RPMs meter?

In the video game I played there was an indicator light when I needed to shift gears. As far as that goes, what would the indication on an actual car be other than the sound the car makes?

Is the clutch only used when switching gears? I am sorry if I am way off I have never really been in contact with a manual other than a video game.

Thank you both very much for all the help tonight. If either of you feel the need to message me via AIM (aliansRreal) please feel free to do so. I feel as if I am bugging you guys tonight.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
Are you saying that you only spent 32k on your whole car with all the upgrades or are you saying you added 32K in upgrades (WTF did you put in that thing if that is the case?)

I spent about 32K with the packages offered by the dealership and a pair of 18" BBS wheels that they don't offer (about $2000 for the wheels). I then put another 10K-13K into the car, things kile stage-3 nitro system, carbonfiber hood and spoiler (matched to car's paint), sway bars, DVD/GPS navigation, racing safty belts, racing tires, suspension, and some work under the hood. It now does 0-62 MPH in 4.1 seconds (4.6 stock), with 401 HP/410 torque (300/300 stock), mid 10's 1/4 mile (without nitro), and I still gat about 20MPG on the highway. The 2006 model will do 0-62mph in about 4.2 seconds... that beats any stock car under about $250,000 with exception of the Audi RS6 Stufe which is the best performing sedan in the world. My brother want's my current STI, he plans to sell his S4 and probably get a Porsche Cayanne S.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
I spent about 32K with the packages offered by the dealership and a pair of 18" BBS wheels that they don't offer (about $2000 for the wheels). I then put another 10K-13K into the car, things kile stage-3 nitro system, carbonfiber hood and spoiler (matched to car's paint), sway bars, DVD/GPS navigation, racing safty belts, racing tires, suspension, and some work under the hood. It now does 0-62 MPH in 4.1 seconds (4.6 stock), with 401 HP/410 torque (300/300 stock), mid 10's 1/4 mile (without nitro), and I still gat about 20MPG on the highway. The 2006 model will do 0-62mph in about 4.2 seconds... that beats any stock car under about $250,000 with exception of the Audi RS6 Stufe which is the best performing sedan in the world. My brother want's my current STI, he plans to sell his S4 and probably get a Porsche Cayanne S.

As far as upgrades would go probably the only thing I would do is cold air intake (from what I read helps the car run better for not a big price) and a spoiler of some sort, but the STI already has a nice one.

The 2k6 version of the STI isn't to my likeing either. The back end is perfectly fine, but as far as the front goes thats another story. With the STI I am not looking so much more for power (I already know it has plenty to get me where I need to go)

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
Is the tachometer on all cars? Or am I just unsure of the name of the gauge? Is the tachometer the gauge with the RPMs meter?

In the video game I played there was an indicator light when I needed to shift gears. As far as that goes, what would the indication on an actual car be other than the sound the car makes?

Is the clutch only used when switching gears? I am sorry if I am way off I have never really been in contact with a manual other than a video game.

Yes, the tach is the RPM guage and it's a on al cars, on the STI it's the center, and thus more dominant guage. The clutch can be used for things other than shifting gears, but that's it's primary function. The tachometer will show you what RPM's you are running at. As you accelerate you'll see the needle go up, each number represents 1000 RPM's. Cars such as the STI are designed to handle high revs, so you won't blow your engine by running at 6000-7000 RPM's, but under normal driving conditions you don't need to exceed about 4000 RPMs (on any car), but driving at lower revolutions is less stressful on the engine.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
Yes, the tach is the RPM guage and it's a on al cars, on the STI it's the center, and thus more dominant guage. The clutch can be used for things other than shifting gears, but that's it's primary function. The tachometer will show you what RPM's you are running at. As you accelerate you'll see the needle go up, each number represents 1000 RPM's. Cars such as the STI are designed to handle high revs, so you won't blow your engine by running at 6000-7000 RPM's, but under normal driving conditions you don't need to exceed about 4000 RPMs (on any car), but driving at lower revolutions is less stressful on the engine.

I probably wouldn't hold the at car at very high RPMs unless I got into racing sometime later on (not likely, as I do not know enough about cars). As far as now I want something that is fast enough to keep up with my foot along with a lil extra for some fun. I would rarely take the car at anything higher than 70 or 80.

Something you might find interesting (maybe not, but I did) today when pulling out onto a busier street I floored it in my dad's and normally the car takes that with out much of a problem, but I guess today I hit it harder or faster than normal and the car went into a small tailwhip. Needless to say it scared teh #### out of me at the time, but it was pretty cool. The car straigtened out pretty much by itself which was pretty cool. This would be the first time that the car actually went into a small skid. I have squeeled the tires to a minimal amount before, but nothing like this.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
As far as upgrades would go probably the only thing I would do is cold air intake (from what I read helps the car run better for not a big price) and a spoiler of some sort, but the STI already has a nice one.

The 2k6 version of the STI isn't to my likeing either. The back end is perfectly fine, but as far as the front goes thats another story. With the STI I am not looking so much more for power (I already know it has plenty to get me where I need to go)

Yea, that's the great thing, it's race-ready without any upgrades.

Considering you're getting your first car, I'd probably go for the regular WRX model unless you come across a killer deal on the WRX STI. That's an INCREDIBLY excellent car period, let alone for your first set of wheels. My first two cars I bought myself in HS (started driving in 1993), they were a 1981 VW Disel Rabbit with a top speed of about 35-40 mph (about $1000), and a 1962 or 1967 (can't remember) Dodge Dart Slant-6. This thing was a tank, it had better power but was still slow as snot.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
I probably wouldn't hold the at car at very high RPMs unless I got into racing sometime later on (not likely, as I do not know enough about cars). As far as now I want something that is fast enough to keep up with my foot along with a lil extra for some fun. I would rarely take the car at anything higher than 70 or 80.

Something you might find interesting (maybe not, but I did) today when pulling out onto a busier street I floored it in my dad's and normally the car takes that with out much of a problem, but I guess today I hit it harder or faster than normal and the car went into a small tailwhip. Needless to say it scared teh #### out of me at the time, but it was pretty cool. The car straigtened out pretty much by itself which was pretty cool. This would be the first time that the car actually went into a small skid. I have squeeled the tires to a minimal amount before, but nothing like this.

That's because it's a RWD car, AWD cars have much better handling, power balance, cornering and so on. RWD's are great if it's perfect weather, any "adverse" conditions make a RWD car very hard to drive.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
That's because it's a RWD car, AWD cars have much better handling, power balance, cornering and so on. RWD's are great if it's perfect weather, any "adverse" conditions make a RWD car very hard to drive.

That is why I am concerned with winter. The past couple years haven't been bad but with ym luck I am sure this year it will be nice and snowy just for me.

As I get closer to my license I will pay closer attention to deals on cars. I want something that isn't all to expensive (my father said he would front me atleast 10k so I would have to pony up the rest.) I am not concerned if the car itself is new as long as it is in good condition and runs well.

[Verita']

Go test drive the regular WRX with automatic transmittion with your dad, I wouldn't be suprised if your dad want's one too.

[pyroboy145]

Besides power are the only differences in the STI and the WRX the spoiler and wheels?

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
Besides power are the only differences in the STI and the WRX the spoiler and wheels?

Essentially yes, the WRX STI is the "Race car" version, the WRX is the "Sports car" version.

[pyroboy145]

So are you saying that the STI is moreso based on performance than anything and the WRX is moreso based on looks than anything?

[melsmusic]

I am not sure about Audi but I know from experience that the European cars have higher repair costs but compared to the top of the line Australian made cars we used to own the maintenance bills always come in lower.

We compared our taxes (as our cars are through our company) on our "repairs & maintenance" for the years we had the Australian cars .. and then compared to the years we switched over to BMW and they were a lot lower with BMW.

This was due to the fact the warranty stated services needed to be performed every 5,000 km's on the Aussie cars versus BMW 20,000 on our 5 series and 25,000 km's on our 3 series.

It seemed everytime we put our other cars in for their 5,000 service they found somthing wrong.

My Dad however is extremely happy with his previous Toyota Celica and only changed to Honda Prelude because he didn't like the new shape of the Celica. Whilst the Toyota was more reliable in his opinion the Honda has also been a good car.

It really depends on whether you are forced into warranty plans with your purchase, how many outlets you have locally for parts & servicing etc.

Their are lemon models in just about every manufacturer so you should do your homework before choosing any make or model.

I have found the 3 series to be extremely reliable with little or no repair bills (but they have been under warranty) .. the 5 series is getting a little older now and we have had a few large maintenance issues (brakes costs was high, door handle snapped off .:confused: ) but for the driving pleasure & extra safety we see it as worth it.

[Verita']

No, well somewhat. The STI is uber-high-performance and some comfort, fuel efficiency and ease are sacrificed. The WRX is a highly capable sports sedan, and while it's not as race worthy, it's a more "sensible" car. It's the same difference between a Ferrari Enzo (pure race car), and a Ferrari 575 Marenello (very high performance but designed for everyday driving).

[pyroboy145]

When I think of BMW I have always thought really pricey. I have jsut looked up some used BMWs and they are going for a bit higher than my price range, but it could be an option.

I guess something that I just thought of is that since it is my first car and I am in high school I don't want to go to school in a very nice car and have someone #### with it (such as key it.) I know insurance would take care of it, but something less classy would be nicer so people don't get jealous and want to screw it up. Then again one of the teachers have a BMW Z series car and so far it doesn't seem to have seen any harm.

I don't know, but thanks to the three of you for all your inputs on the situation.

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by Verita'
No, well somewhat. The STI is uber-high-performance and some comfort, fuel efficiency and ease are sacrificed. The WRX is a highly capable sports sedan, and while it's not as race worthy, it's a more "sensible" car. It's the same difference between a Ferrari Enzo (pure race car), and a Ferrari 575 Marenello (very high performance but designed for everyday driving).

If that is the case then the WRX would be perfectly fine with me after some minor upgrades to visual and possibly a cold air so that it runs better. A big thing with the STI was the spoiler and the wheels (especially the options when putting the car together). I will go do some searching on if some of what I want would be available for the WRX.

Something for thought, in the past I had thought about seeing what Civic or an Accord could do for me. As time goes I find that the Accord would serve its purpose well, but I don't really like how the car looks. The Civic looks better than teh Accord but is not packing the punch that I would want in a car. As one of my friends said earlier this week about his Civic "it's just not enough." Sure his foot is rather heavy, but so is mine. I can agree with him in the aspect of little power.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
If that is the case then the WRX would be perfectly fine with me after some minor upgrades to visual and possibly a cold air so that it runs better. A big thing with the STI was the spoiler and the wheels (especially the options when putting the car together). I will go do some searching on if some of what I want would be available for the WRX.

Something for thought, in the past I had thought about seeing what Civic or an Accord could do for me. As time goes I find that the Accord would serve its purpose well, but I don't really like how the car looks. The Civic looks better than teh Accord but is not packing the punch that I would want in a car. As one of my friends said earlier this week about his Civic "it's just not enough." Sure his foot is rather heavy, but so is mine. I can agree with him in the aspect of little power.

Wheels can cost you a lot, the STI's BBS wheels will run you about $2200-$2400 for the full set (no spare) and you'll still need tires. For the spoiler you might as well get something custom, about $300-$500. You may find that just buying the STI is cheaper than upgrading... maybe not, then there's always all the other upgrades you'd receive. Shop around, the more research you do, the more prepared you'll be when the time comes.

[pyroboy145]

I will for sure do my research. I will chat with my dad about going to check out a WRX if not an STI. The major selling points for me on the STI are the spoiler and the wheels. Something interesting I see now that the WRX and STI are both 4 cylinders. Would that make up a big difference compared to a 6 cylinder?

Also, one other thing I forgot to ask, is there anyway to maintain or increase fuel economy by other means than keeping filters changed and the basics that will not cost a whole lot?

[melsmusic]

Certainly I can recommend the BMW E46 shape 318 for reliability & fuel comsumption etc .. but it depends if you do want power as it is a 4 cylinder and probably for a guy a bit too slow. Then the 320's in the E46 are going to be dearer on fuel & to buy but a good choice. You could by an older E46 as the shape has been out for while and just about to change so you might be able to pick up a good deal.

If you want speed without the higher price tag the WRX would be the way to go but if you were my son I would prefer you in a BMW as I feel that as it's your first car you don't need too much power, you need safety. I'm a Mum and will probably get shot down in flames for spoiling your thread with that sort of mum talk !!

Another good safe car would be a saab but your friends might give you heaps (a bit like volvo) - and I hear that their turbo engines need a lot of regular oil changes - which is why we didn't buy one. The 9-3 saab's are really nice.

Whatever you choose just try to get it thoroughly checked out out and try to buy a nice 1 owner well maintained car then it shouldn't give you too much trouble (unless it's a lemon model so check on that).

And another bit of advice - it's better to buy a stock standard car than one that's already been hotted up because they more than likely have been owned by a younger person who may give them a hard time. If you buy a stock standard car - then do it up yourself the owner was more likely a slower driver which would possibly mean the car is more well maintained.

[Verita']

Originally posted by pyroboy145
I will for sure do my research. I will chat with my dad about going to check out a WRX if not an STI. The major selling points for me on the STI are the spoiler and the wheels. Something interesting I see now that the WRX and STI are both 4 cylinders. Would that make up a big difference compared to a 6 cylinder?

Also, one other thing I forgot to ask, is there anyway to maintain or increase fuel economy by other means than keeping filters changed and the basics that will not cost a whole lot?

Not really, the Outback and Legacy have 6-cylinder versions of the WRX engine, and they aren't as powerful. Lot's of cylinders doesn't equal lot's of power, the WRX has 4 and most Porsche's have 6 and they out pace most V8, V10, and V12's. More cylinders is good for pulling stuff, high top speed, quite/luxurious ride, and bragging rights.

There isn't a whole lot you can do to improve fuel economy that doesn't cost something. One thing you can do is keep your tires filled to spec, less air pressure= softer tires=more rolling resistance=less milage & and lesser performance and don't drive/accelerate fast if you don't need to. Most anything else would decrease from the car's performance.

[jsupetran]

Man I'm dying to get an Sti and believe me, if you want more power and better gas mileage and more fun, get a manual! I love my eclipse, but I regret getting an auto.

[pyroboy145]

I guess what it really boils down to is how much my father likes it. If he likes it and it's a car that he will drive then chances are better that he would be more willing to help pay more money.

[FeelTheFire]

I'm guessing you're around 16 years old? I'm of the camp that says getting a fantastic car for your first car is a waste. You don't have the experience in driving to truly enjoy a powerful driving experience yet. It's far better to drive a safe, cheap to own car at first in case something happens to it. My first car was a dodge caravan and while it was a loser cruiser it was safe, reliable, and dirt cheap to care for and insure.

With gas the cost it is, you might be wishing for a hybrid pretty soon.

Have you discussed with your dad who's going to be paying to insure/maintain/put gas in the car? It will cost twice as much to insure a luxury or high performance car as it will to insure a "standard" vehicle. For example, it costs less to insure a toyota camry than it is to insure a Lexus ES330, but they are built on the same Chassis and carry the same engine. The lexus has all the trimmings, but as a youngin the insurance might hurt you later one.

While I love my BMW and wouldn't trade it for anything, I feel obligated to comment that my old Volvo 960 Turbo was a FANTASTIC car. My friends never, ever gave me flak for driving that car as it was faster than all theirs (yup, even those spiffy new Audis and Beemers) AND was tricked out luxury to boot. Only thing that stunk about it was that it took high octane gas, which at the time was not a problem but is now a wallet crusher.


Maybe look into the Volvo S40? the repairs on that won't be any cheaper than on another european made car but they're safe and fun.

I think if you're just starting out you don't need a supercar. There are lots of nice, practical cars out there with plenty of punch that are cheaper to own and drive than these european brands and high-end sports cars.

My M3 is fast, but that doesn't mean I ever get to drive it that fast. It goes at most 80 on any given day.

I'd say the Acura RSX or Scion tC are more appropriate cars, though I can't promise the Acura will have enough room in the front for you. I know the Scion does, my 6'1 boyfriend drives mine sometimes.

As for stick shift, a properly driven stick does get better economy and it's a more "customizable" driving experience. I myself prefer driving stick, though my BMW has the SMG transmission and I can switch between manual and automatic mode at liberty, which is nice since I sit in a lot of traffic.

you can hear and feel when you need to shift once you get experience driving- personally, I think automatics are wasted on a sports car since you don't get to feel the power of the car practically ever with an automatic. Once you get "in tune" with a car, you can hear the automatic shift and you can feel when it's not shifting right. It's about perception, driving stick is very easy.

You've got to remember to put the clutch in to brake. My BMw does not have a clutch, it's a clutchless manual, and some higher end cars like the Lexus IS300 have the clutchless manual "sport" mode as well, but a true manual will have one, and you use it all the time.

[pyroboy145]

I am by no means a fast driver compared to my closer friends who have had their licesne for a couple months. I generally try to stick to about 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit unless the road is empty. And as far as I know the Subaru had done nice in safety tests. I had been looking at the WRX before the Audi in the first place but I never really found a whole lot of WRXs on the market.

My father had said that he will pay for insurance but I will have to pay for gas. As for paying for the car itself, my dad said he would put atleast 10k on the table for me and I can pay the rest to him over time. I hope to have atleast 2k for him on the day I pick out a car. Assuming the car will not be more than 20k that will not be a problem on my end. I am planning on working a part time job and have been looking into working with my dad, where I could get some decent money for a short amount of time worked.

As for the car being reliable, that is part of the reason I asked about the Audi. I want something that will be reliable and not cost me a fortune every couple months or so. I just noticed that a few year old Audis were not all that expensive, so I figured I would see what the people here thought. Which was a good idea after finding how if the littlest things arent taken care of it can ruin the car.

As my dad has said lots of times when you find the car you want you will know it. I have no problem with not having a new car as long as I like it. If my dad's Camaro had more room I would ask for that (less than 10k) but being 6 foot 3 and almost 290 I need a little more room for comfort.

[Verita']

I basicly agree with what FeelTheFire is saying. If you go with the STI you'll probably not appreciate future cars that you will own, on the other hand you sound more mature than your average 15-16 year old, and if I was in your shoes I'd be gunning for the STI. Personally I wouldn't buy my kid a better/more expenceive car than I own and I wouldn't foot the entire bill for for gas/insurance/maintainence. I'd aim for the WRX, if your dad see's the STI he might let you upgrade, or maybe he'll get one for himself and you can start a Subaru family. Just remember that you're quite lucky to a dad that will help you out so much with getting your first car.

[pyroboy145]

I know I am very happy with the fact. I even offered to pay as much as I could for a car payment, gas, and insurance a month. He told me that he would take of the insurance atleast and I will probably end up giving him some of my paycheck per month to help with the car payment and insurance. As for maintinence I haven't really talked with him about that. We haven't had many issues with our cars in the past so there has never been a really big maintinece issue. All of our cars are well taken care of, my dad cleans his car every few days, changes oil, does many of the things you are suposed to do to keep your car running really well.

I have always told him I just don't want him to give it to me. I want to help pay for it since it will be mine someday and he won't always be there to give me whatever I need.

[neb]

Japan for reliability. Their cars are designed to go the desired distance without being too flashy. They're freely available across the globe and are renowned for their ability to keep on going, without the need to shell out for repair costs and so forth. They're nothing special, particuarly in the performance and aesthetics side of things. People usually go Japanese because they're not looking for a car that will impress the Jones' next door, or enthusiastic about racing around town.

European cars, namely German are the peak of engineering. BMW's slogan is 'The Ultimate Driving Machine (or experience, can't remember). Their cars are renowned for being supremely tuned through the suspension and handling capabilities. In other words, they run like clock work. Audis are partiuarly desirable and expensive cars in the UK. I think it may be cheaper to buy one in Germany and get it shipped over, like it is with many things. Personally I find the the looks of the German cars particuarly good, as well as the driving performance. You'll also have to consider resale value. A german car is eligable for a good resale value, due to the quality.

[FeelTheFire]

If you were my son, I'd be looking in the range of a Scion tC or a Acura RSX. You really don't need anything sharper than that and for what it's worth, my Scion tC is a pretty sharp car for its price. It's the model that is replacing the Toyota Celica. It's all the car a teenager will really need. I think you'll regret having the burden of having to part with your paycheck every month to pay for the fancier car-- when you start working officially you will find out just how much money you lose to taxes and how much it really costs to feed yourself and put gas in your car.

Just to put it in perspective, at age 17 I was working 40 hours a week for $10 an hour. I regularly lost $120 a paycheck to taxes. That means I made net just about 60% of my gross pay. I got some of that money back on my tax return, but not all of it. Now, out of that $280 a week, I lost about $60 in gas and $40 in food. So we're down to $180 a week. That times four was $720 a month. The car payment on my Scion was in the ballpark of $300 a month.

It adds up to not a lot of available funds. I only made about $1200 total that summer of working.

the less you pay outright for your car, the more of that paycheck youl'll get to keep and save, maybe to put towards a newer, nicer car.

I got lucky and can afford my BMW through a bunch of flukes, but there's plenty of time to own one later.

More practical cars for you would be the Scion, the Acura, a Nissan Maxima, or a toyota. I think because of your size you will find that you won't physically be comfortable in a smaller sports car and you will do better in a sport sedan or full size sedan.

I would go test drive the Volvo S40...just to try it out. Remember since you were worried about winter driving that going too sporty will be a mistake. The volvo has available 4wd and it's a pretty sporty looking car.

Me? I need a "winter" car,so my boyfriend is debating buying my Scion off me for a song (don't need it anymore, and he's been driving it anyway) and I'm trying to find a winterish SUV/ 4wd sedan option.

Verita', any suggestions? you seem to be the local car guru. The only thing I would prefer to avoid is land rover/range rover, because there are far too many of them here and I will have difficulty repairing it when I move to a more rural area soon. Otherwise, price isn't an object- what would you suggest? (sorry to hijack, I swear this will be quick.)

[melsmusic]

I hear the Lexus 4wd is very good. Winning so many awards etc. Not sure about winterish conditions as we don't have those in Brisbane !!

My brother (merc through & through) had the ML series 4wd but sold it and bought an X5 which we thought he would never own as it's BMW .. but even he admits it's a way better 4wd than the Merc. He said the merc had more luggage room for his stock but the X5 was much nicer to drive to do his running around & picking up stock etc. They win out in a lot of safety tests compared to some other 4wd's but I think Volvo would be safer. They normally are.

That's just the feedback I have had on 4wd's. We drove the X5 and it was really nice. We are considering that over the new 5 series as we are unsure of the new shape but I don't really like 4wd's. Most of the true 4wd's over here are Toyota 75 & 100 series & hilux (not that good as they terrible on fuel). They are certainly more comfortable in the later series but a very large 4wd.

[FeelTheFire]

I was looking at the Volvo XC90, the Toyota LandCruiser, and the Lexus GX470. I am not crazy about this year's X5s and will be looking to buy in the next couple of weeks as I don't even want to attempt to subject my M3 to a Vermont winter. I think it's going to either be garaged (not my first choice) or it's going to get snow tires and driven by my roommate's dad in the winter.

Any thoughts, car buffs? I would consider something like the Audi Allroad or a Subaru Outback, thought I would prefer a full SUV.

(small girls gotta drive huge cars. it's like a rule lol)

[melsmusic]

If you don't like the X5 I would go with the Volvo or Lexus whichever you can get better service options from. They are a pretty good chick's 4wd. I would drive them but not a Toyota - they are just too square & bulky for my taste. Most of the feedback we get on the Landcruisers too are they are great, but really bad on fuel consumption.

[pyroboy145]

THank you guys for the other suggestions. I am very open to any and all suggestions. The only issue with the Scion is that I have never seen or heard of any scion dealers in my area. I have looked in a local car ad magazine and am lucky to find one (yes I have looked into them b4.) The Volvo would be much easier to come by since I have a Volvo dealer mayb three miles from me.

[Verita']

Originally posted by FeelTheFire
I was looking at the Volvo XC90, the Toyota LandCruiser, and the Lexus GX470. I am not crazy about this year's X5s and will be looking to buy in the next couple of weeks as I don't even want to attempt to subject my M3 to a Vermont winter. I think it's going to either be garaged (not my first choice) or it's going to get snow tires and driven by my roommate's dad in the winter.

Any thoughts, car buffs? I would consider something like the Audi Allroad or a Subaru Outback, thought I would prefer a full SUV.

(small girls gotta drive huge cars. it's like a rule lol)

The Toyota Land Crusier is one of the best SUV's ever made, it's usually the choice (along with Land Rover) for hard core expeditions. It depends on whether you want a full SUV, or a car/SUV hybrid. A car style SUV like the Outback and All-Road will get much better milage than the typical truck-style SUV and they perform buch better in road conditions. Our Audi All-Road has four suspension modes, the highest of which gives the vehicle more ground clearence than most "true" SUV's.

If you've got the cash and want a more truck-like SUV check out the Mercedes Benz "G-Series."
http://www.mbusa.com/brand/models/G500.jsp
There's also an "AMG" version for $90,000.

[melsmusic]

If you don't think your friends would give you heaps for driving a Volvo, or you don't care anyway I would say it's a great first car .. just purely for it's safety.

+ if you buy used they do drop in value quite quickly so you can get a lot of luxury built in for your money.

I looked at the S40 myself or was it the S30 - the smaller one anyway (around the same size as the 3 series) and it had a lot more in it for the money. It just didn't have enough leg room in the back for me with a child and sometimes extra kids in the back. For a young guy it would be a good size car and their new shapes are nice & sporty compared to their older square models.

[pyroboy145]

I really don't give a hoot what others will think about a Volvo. I had been made fun of most of my life for being overweight and such so I am pretty much used to it. Now I don't hear it as much since I am so large, but it still goes on every now and then.

[melsmusic]

That's what I like to hear. A young man with his own mind. Good on you.

Definitely check out the S40 then. They are a nice looking car, well priced on the secondary market for the luxury & safety features you get. Beautiful to drive.

I don't know about power though. Most European cars have gone steptronic so you get auto & manual. I have never used my step but my husband uses his all the time so if you wanted manual they may not have them.

[FeelTheFire]

The S40 comes solely in auto or manual- I think people find with the steptronic that they only use one or the other, and Volvo has recognized this.

As far as finding a scion, give your local toyota dealer a call- Scion is a toyota brand and if they can't get their hands on one for you to try through a dealer exchange, they can probably refer you to another dealer.

I think I'm going to go this weekend and drive the 3 SUVs I listed, as well as an Audi AllRoad. I hope to be buying one on monday so I'll let you know what I choose!

As far as repairs, it would be far easier to repair a toyota pretty much anywhere, and the lexus is all toyota parts, so that is my primary concern with the volvo- I will be checking to find an imported performance car place near where I'm moving.

Otherwise, I like the looks and specs on the Volvo, since they tend to be lux cars without the massive pricetag of some of the luxury brands.

I'll come back and post what I chose!

[yinyang]

Originally posted by pyroboy145
THank you guys for the other suggestions. I am very open to any and all suggestions. The only issue with the Scion is that I have never seen or heard of any scion dealers in my area. I have looked in a local car ad magazine and am lucky to find one (yes I have looked into them b4.) The Volvo would be much easier to come by since I have a Volvo dealer mayb three miles from me.

just noticed this thread, and my only bit of advice for you (and your dad) is to check the insurance premiums first for some of these prospective cars - i know in australia, if you're under 25, very few insurance companies will touch you with a barge pole for a WRX, let alone an STi. They are often stolen and used as ram raiders here and in the UK, despite the immobilers and sat tracking devices etc, and the police know they cannot keep up with them, unless they're also driving an STi (they have some in Sydney).

my 2 cents worth...!

good luck on whatever you choose :)

[FeelTheFire]

Little different here- Most American insurers will insure anything that moves, but they will FRY you on the premiums if you're under 25, drive particular cars, or have any citations or anything on the record. My premiums my first year on a crap dodge caravan with high miles and litle value on paper totaled more than $3500. Currently, the insurance on my M3 is lower than those, but the car was $67,000 when all was said and done, and it's a high-theft vehicle. So, here it's age and inexperience that burn you- but they're right. Young drivers are more likely to get into an accident, harm themselves or others, or otherwise need to make a claim against their car insurance.

As far as going over the speed limit, which was referenced somewhere earlier in this thread- tread carefully. I got a $175 speeding ticket two months after I got my liscence for going 10 miles over the limit on an open road. be careful with this, as it will cause your insurance premiums to SKYROCKET.

Again, I'd be inclined to go cheaper, rather than more expensive. if you're going to buy used, do one of three things: 1. buy from someone you know who you know has taken care of the car well, 2. buy certified pre-owned which come with a new warranty, or 3. buy a "fake used." These are the cars that were bought new off the lot, registered, and then returned to the dealership because the original buyer changed their mind. Since the car has been registered, it can no longer be considered "new" but often only has 1000 miles or less on it. This can save you thousands of $$ while giving you essentially a brand- new car. Often, large "superstore" dealerships (a prime example would be Ira out in the boston area) carry nearly every brand of mid to upper end car and often have these types of cars available.

I've got an appointment at the Lexus dealer tonight to look at and drive the GX470 and the LandCruiser. Tomorrow is Volvo and Audi. Let's hope by monday I've got a new car!

[pyroboy145]

Originally posted by FeelTheFire
Little different here- Most American insurers will insure anything that moves, but they will FRY you on the premiums if you're under 25, drive particular cars, or have any citations or anything on the record. My premiums my first year on a crap dodge caravan with high miles and litle value on paper totaled more than $3500. Currently, the insurance on my M3 is lower than those, but the car was $67,000 when all was said and done, and it's a high-theft vehicle. So, here it's age and inexperience that burn you- but they're right. Young drivers are more likely to get into an accident, harm themselves or others, or otherwise need to make a claim against their car insurance.

As far as going over the speed limit, which was referenced somewhere earlier in this thread- tread carefully. I got a $175 speeding ticket two months after I got my liscence for going 10 miles over the limit on an open road. be careful with this, as it will cause your insurance premiums to SKYROCKET.

Again, I'd be inclined to go cheaper, rather than more expensive. if you're going to buy used, do one of three things: 1. buy from someone you know who you know has taken care of the car well, 2. buy certified pre-owned which come with a new warranty, or 3. buy a "fake used." These are the cars that were bought new off the lot, registered, and then returned to the dealership because the original buyer changed their mind. Since the car has been registered, it can no longer be considered "new" but often only has 1000 miles or less on it. This can save you thousands of $$ while giving you essentially a brand- new car. Often, large "superstore" dealerships (a prime example would be Ira out in the boston area) carry nearly every brand of mid to upper end car and often have these types of cars available.

I've got an appointment at the Lexus dealer tonight to look at and drive the GX470 and the LandCruiser. Tomorrow is Volvo and Audi. Let's hope by monday I've got a new car!

Was the road you got a ticket on like one that is used somewhat often? Also what time of the month would you have gotten that ticket? During the end of the month cops (around here atleast) are more willing to give out tickets. The cops are trying to make up for what they didn't give out during the rest of the month by picking on people who would normally not be bothered by teh PD.

Why does car insurance have to know about a ticket? Does the cop like make sure to contact them or did you do that on your own?

Most likely for a car what I will do to get a good deal is do something like the "fake used" or a certified used vehicle. We have a dealer near me that seems to specialize in the "fake" used. And you are right I checked out some of those cars and they were a couple thousand off for only having a hundred miles on them and essentially that is what we have done with my mom's vehicle. A Chevrolet executive's wife drove it around for like a month and we got like 4k off becuase of it.

Good luck with getting a new car. What type of job do you have? It just seems that you are rather wealthy with so many cars and wanting another.

*PERSONAL AD* If anyone wants to let me "borrow" one of their cars in pretty good condition please let me know. haha

[FeelTheFire]

^ insurance companies ALWAYS know when you get a ticket or are in an accident in which the police are involved. Why? Because they are linked directly into the system. When your ticket is processed, it immediately flags your insurance record and the insurer recieves a copy of the report. There is no getting around it.

Adding a teen driver to family insurance, which is usually what is done, can cause the premiums to as much as triple. This is a lot of $$. Insurance companies know how to watch their own backs and you can't escape them knowing about some things that happen. Bear in mind that getting a private policy will cause the premium price to quadruple since you are not getting the benefit of having drivers with good records attached to you. Most insurance companies apply the driver that's most expensive to insure to the CAR that's most expensive to insure (this would probably be your new car, given what you're looking at to buy) which causes the premiums to be at their maximum. There's not a whole lot of getting around that to be done.

Biggest way to save money on insurance: DO NOT BUY A NEW CAR.

I was given my ticket on an open road that is fairly busy but doesn't usually have TRAFFIC, by a state officer, in about mid-june.

As far as my job, I'm 18 and work full time but not at a brilliant job- I inherited a sizeable sum from a relative a few years back and while the principal is in trust, I can easily live on the interest and that's what I do. I've been putting it away and am purchasing a "winter" car for practicality- the M3 is simply not a winter car. I have that, my older Volvo 960 which is off the road and not driveable, my 2005 Scion tC which I've essentially given to my boyfriend to drive, and then my first car, the crap dodge caravan which is being passed on down the family line to my cousin.

So, in essence, I actually only have the one car to drive, though on paper I own three. This purchase is going to be my winter/road trip/practical car, and the M3 will remain my fun, enjoy-being-young car.

While it's nice to not have to worry about money, I prefer that I live normally and work hard. Cars are pretty much my only indulgence since I drive so much (commute two hours to work, every day, twice a day). The two cars will be enough for me, and it will be three if I get my Scion back/ I get married, which may be in the cards once i finish college.

This new car will be the car that comes to college with me, hence why I am leaning towards the volvo and toyota over the lexus/BMW. While I like luxury I want something that will keep my friends and I safe on the way to the ski resorts and be easy to repair while I'm away- so the luxury is not a necessary feature.

I drove the GX470 and the LandCruiser today and I liked them both but the landcruiser seemed to be about the same car as the GX, without some of the trimmings. Based on that, I think what I will end up buying is the Volvo XC90 V8.

me? if i could have picked any car for my first car I would have picked a nice Toyota Camry- safe, cheap, pretty classy looking, and plenty of room for stuff and friends. I think you'll find that that's more important to you over time than having a flashy, fast sports car. Sometimes, though I love my M3, I wish I could be driving a more "simple" car, and one I have to worry about less.

[pyroboy145]

Thank you for all your insight on the car. I will most definitly do some more researching and looking around b4 I make up my mind.

Just out of curiousity how do kids who don't have a car work around it? Sure they will have insurance, but since they don't have a car what are they insured to?

[FeelTheFire]

You are insured on your parent's car as what's called an "occasional" driver. You don't have to have your own car, but you must me insured on any car that you drive. Usually any liscenced driver in your house will have to be insured at some level.

for example, when I started driving, I was insured on my car but also on my mother's car, since I was on her policy and she owned both cars. You just get added to the insurance policy that currently exists- you don't necessarily have to have a separate policy for each car.

[pyroboy145]

OK thank you for all your help with this issue. Good luck on your new SUV.

[yinyang]

not sure exactly how it works over in US, but here in Aus and UK, when you start off as a young driver, invariably you get a cheapish car that gets you from A to B, that is in your own name for insurance. survive a couple of years with no mishaps and your premiums come down, and you get "no claims bonuses". So by the time you hit 25, have a clean record (hopefully) and you can then move up the food chain and get yourself a 'decent' car with a good insurance record so that the premiums are bearable. most insurance companies here will then allow you to keep the no claime bonus for life - currently my 60% no claims bonus is for life, unless i have three (i think) accidents which are deemed my fault.

[FeelTheFire]

here, at least in Massachusetts, insurance is rated on a "step" system. Basically, you start out with a clean slate the day you get your liscence as a "step 15" driver. Every year you go without an accident/claim takes you down a "step," until you reach step 9, which is as low as you can go. At that point your premiums go down considerably (my dad is a step 9 driver and his premiums are about 30% of what a step 15 driver's would be.) However, if you have an accident, or a ticket, your "step" rating goes up proportionately, as do your premiums. For example, my speeding ticket bumped me up a step, so I have to go a year with no accidents/claims to erase that from my record. Accidents are given a point rating based on cost, with an accident in which you are at fault causing damage of greater than $5000 being a "4 point" accident. You don't want to have these. Bear in mind at fault includes all one-car accidents, because losing control of your vehicle puts you at fault.

It's designed to reward good drivers with low premiums, while making drivers who are inexperienced or bad pay more. It works out to the same total amount per year for the insurance company, it just "pro-rates" based on your record.

The no-claims bonus is a fleeting thing, though- one accident, and you lose that, and lose your "good driver" bonus as well since you get "pointed up."

Insurance companies will invariably reccomend a "beater" car as a first car, since it will be cheaper and wrecks are VERY common with teenagers. When you speed as a teenager, I can attest to the fact that you're driving faster than you can think, and you run into trouble. Safety should be the first prority.

Today I was driving my old van on a major interstate to blow out the engine since it's been sitting a while and we want to clear it out before passing it on. A lady driving a subaru outback got into a battle of wills with me at an on-ramp (she had room to wait for me to pass her, but she didn't) and she merged into the side of me. I slammed on my brakes to get out of the way and my brakes failed. I was forced to swerve to avoid this woman, and thankfully the GMC Yukon behind me had good brakes and gave me room. If he had hit me I would have spun in front of a tractor trailer and been killed.

These things are not guarantees, and it takes one fleeting moment of seeing your life before your eyes that you worry most about safety than anything else. Thank god I'm still here.

Insurance is a novel concept. They beat it into your brains in driver's ed. which is required to get your liscence if you're uner 18 in MA. We also have graduated liscensing, and I can attest to the fact that this is not something you mess with. Ours is three stage: once you get your liscence, you cannot have anyone in your car other than an immediate family member unless there is a person over the age of 21 who has a driver's liscence sitting in the front passenger seat. After six months, there is no passenger restriction but you cannot drive between midnight and 5am. After 18 you have a full legal liscence and can drive at will.

A friend of mine totaled his car in an accident and lost his liscence for a year because he had his friend in the car. Don't mess around with the JOL law.

[pyroboy145]

The law in Illinois states that you can have one other person in your car (not sure to what extent it goes, if you are allowed family and friends only count towards the 1 person) for six months. After that you are free to have as many people as your car can handle with a curfue.

A friend of mine completly totaled the car (ran into a tree going about 60 or so) he only got a two tickets (one for having too many people with him and one for the accident.) Since then he got a brand new mustang. So I guess the laws aren't as strict as where you live.

[FeelTheFire]

^ I would think the laws are actually stricter here, since he lost his liscence, no ticketing, just outright had his liscence suspended, which never is expunged from your record.

Be thankful you don't live in NY, the rules there are REDICULOUS and change depending on where you live and whole host of other things.

[pyroboy145]

I am sorry I meant to say that you have it more strict that us. My mistake.

[birdman]

You can pick up an older STI here for as little as $16000 NZD (approx $8000 US). Personally I wouldn't go near a STI at your age. If you have no idea how to drive stick shift, you would definitely be in for a hard time. In NZ we can only drive a manual if we sit our license in a manual, must be different overseas? If you have to go for performance, the Mitsi Evo 6.5,7,8 or the new 9 will leave the STI for dead.

[FeelTheFire]

^you can drive any type of car in the US under one liscense. The only things you cannot drive are school buses, tractor trailers, motorcycles, or some vehicles in a high weight class like RVs. Most people, at least in my state, do not take their driving test in a car they even own, since we are required to take driver's ed we mostly use the driving school's cars since there are very specific requirements for a test vehicle.

I don't believe the Evo is available in the US.

[Verita']

Originally posted by birdman
You can pick up an older STI here for as little as $16000 NZD (approx $8000 US). Personally I wouldn't go near a STI at your age. If you have no idea how to drive stick shift, you would definitely be in for a hard time. In NZ we can only drive a manual if we sit our license in a manual, must be different overseas? If you have to go for performance, the Mitsi Evo 6.5,7,8 or the new 9 will leave the STI for dead.


No, not sure where you heard that, but it's not even close to factual. The ONLY catigory where an Evo comes out on top is turing... big deal.
The STI has more HP, more torque, faster 0-62 (2006 STI will be almost 1.0 sec faster in this stat than the Evo), faster 1/4 mile, higher top speed, better breaking, better gear ratios, easier to drive, better quality construction, nicer specs, cost's less to insure and maintain, MSRP is about $3000 less for the STI,and most important... the STI drives much better both on the track and on the road.

The Evo can be purchased in the U.S.

[PHiX]

Audi is a great brand. They're practically vintage volkswagens, which are reliable cars already.